high milage valve clearance and timing chain - should I...?

[bneal1022]

my 06 has 240K on it and has been trouble free. most reliable car ive ever had. At this point only consumes about 1qt of synthetic between 5000 mile oil changes.

OMM states to have valve clearance checked and adjusted every 100K (i believe). Also im on my original timing chain.

1) at this point do I really need to get valve clearance cheecked? benefit of doing? approximate cost?
2) should I replace my timing chain at this point? approximate cost to replace in conjunction with #1?
3) if going into #1 and #2, what esle should I consider doing while that deep? timing gears? oil pump etc? i really dont know.


thanks !!

[Chiadog]

Sticking a couple hundred into your engine to check/adjust the valves sounds reasonable if other Vibe owners have done this and found a benefit or necessity. I would never go any farther on a 245K engine. I'd save my money for a low cost used engine when that becomes necessary. I've seen low-mileage 1.8L base engines go for $400.00! So somewhere around $1000.00 installed with warranty. YMMV depending on location.

[lannvouivre]

The timing chain can be checked for excessive deflection with the valve cover off only, or you can ask them how much extra it would be to check. Try not to just jump straight into replacing things that might not be worn out. You are looking at an additional four hours of labor ($100 or so an hour) to remove and replace the timing chain. 5.8 hours to adjust valve clearance. For removing the engine and installing another, you're looking at 12.3 hours. This is from the ProDemand service manual estimate guide, which is derived from the manufacturer's information.

[vibrologist]

I recall that my manual says the valve clearance should be checked and adjusted if there is excessive valve noise. In California the valve clearance should be checked every 100K and adjusted if out of spec. There it is an emissions item.
If you are not in California don't move there. just keep driving and follow Chiadog's advise. Lannvouivre gives you an idea how much you would save.

[bneal1022]

Chiadog, (and others many thanks!!)

I may be searching incorrectly, but what should be my search criteria for the correct fit engine? I have a 06 GT 2WD. I agree if pushing $600 for valve and chain work, then $1100 for an engine is fair. I'd have no problem doing a engine swap. I recalled looking on Jasper.com and an engine there is $3500 (none available nationally) and the trans is $4500 (again none available), but their in a predatory business of "you need an engine RIGHT NOW so they capitalize on that, I assume by their price.

This is my 3 day/ week car so I can go without it for a swap if (when necessary). Hate to say my others are a 2004 Sierra Denali, and a 2012 Caddy CTS-V coupe.... gotta admit - I love the Vibe.

I do hear the sewing machine type chatter in the valve cover, but with that many miles uts hard to tell what it used to sound like or if it's grown "excessive". I live in a county in PA that does not have emmissions so I cant tell if they are out.

[vibrologist]

As long as it chatters it runs. When it does not chatter anymore you need to look for an engine.

I don't know what the VIN code (8th character) for the GT engine is. This search brought up "L" code engines:

http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search. ... ge=1&iKey=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Nasmfell]

You're fortunate that valve adjustment in the GT is easier than the base. The base if any valve(s) out of adjustment, the camshaft over the valve(s) would need to be removed and the out of adjustment valve be bought back into spec. The camshaft removal also involves moving the timing chain out of the way (hanging it somewhere so it does not fall) along with other items. GT engine just remove the shim and replace with a shim that is the correct size, no removal of camshafts, timing belt, etc.


I don't get why the valve adjustment for the base engine is more involved than the GT version. Toyota may have realized the same, since 2009 and later fours don't have valve adjustment procedures at all, though the PCV and hose are under the intake, but that is another story This could also explain why valve check and adjustment is not recommended for so many miles.

[joatmon]

I don't know what the VIN code (8th character) for the GT engine is. This search brought up "L" code engines:

from viewtopic.php?t=604" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 8th digit is the Engine type: 8 = 1ZZ engine; L = 2ZZ GT engine

Also, GM refers to the 8=1ZZ engine as RPO code LV6, the L=2ZZ engine as RPO code LNK


I agree with the others, I wouldn't bother unless it fails.

[vibrologist]

You're fortunate that valve adjustment in the GT is easier than the base. The base if any valve(s) out of adjustment, the camshaft over the valve(s) would need to be removed and the out of adjustment valve be bought back into spec. The camshaft removal also involves moving the timing chain out of the way (hanging it somewhere so it does not fall) along with other items. GT engine just remove the shim and replace with a shim that is the correct size, no removal of camshafts, timing belt, etc.


I don't get why the valve adjustment for the base engine is more involved than the GT version. Toyota may have realized the same, since 2009 and later fours don't have valve adjustment procedures at all, though the PCV and hose are under the intake, but that is another story This could also explain why valve check and adjustment is not recommended for so many miles.

What I wrote in post 149 was related tot he BASE engine, not the GT. I don't know if Chiadog and lannvouivre were aware of the differences.

I thought the 2009 has the 2.4 L engine of the Camry. That would be a completely different design.

[Nasmfell]

You're fortunate that valve adjustment in the GT is easier than the base. The base if any valve(s) out of adjustment, the camshaft over the valve(s) would need to be removed and the out of adjustment valve be bought back into spec. The camshaft removal also involves moving the timing chain out of the way (hanging it somewhere so it does not fall) along with other items. GT engine just remove the shim and replace with a shim that is the correct size, no removal of camshafts, timing belt, etc.


I don't get why the valve adjustment for the base engine is more involved than the GT version. Toyota may have realized the same, since 2009 and later fours don't have valve adjustment procedures at all, though the PCV and hose are under the intake, but that is another story This could also explain why valve check and adjustment is not recommended for so many miles.

What I wrote in post 149 was related tot he BASE engine, not the GT. I don't know if Chiadog and lannvouivre were aware of the differences.

I thought the 2009 has the 2.4 L engine of the Camry. That would be a completely different design.

It does, both it and the 2009 and later 1.8 have done away with the need for valve checks and/or adjustments.

[lannvouivre]

The 2ZZ and 1ZZ have almost nothing in common, really. The 2ZZ was designed by YAMAHA based on Toyota's 1ZZ engine.

Removing and replacing a GT (2ZZ) engine is 11.4 hours, timing chain is 7.2 hours, and valve clearance adjustment is 4 hours.

Geez, those used prices are high. Monkeywrenchracing even has cheaper used at $2300. You can have a look on their site if you wish, but you can probably find a better price elsewhere.

I wasn't actually expecting someone to have an '06 GT, I'd always thought they stopped making them in '05.

[10vibe]

As was previously stated, the 09 base 1.8l 2zr-fe has hydraulic valve lash adjusters and roller rocker arms with built-in needle bearings that uses oil pressure to maintain a constant zero valve lash clearance. So valve clearance adjustments are not necessary.
Neat link that describes and illustrates it:
http://physics.usc.edu/Undergraduate/te ... rfeeng.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bneal1022]

OK, in summary I have.....

- my 06 Vibe is a BASE as the 8th VIn digit is "8". That means the valve adjustment is more labor intensive as cams must come out and T-chain hung.

- at this point with 240K the labor $ is not necessary to reset valve clearances as its more emission related than mechanical need?

- It is marginally beneficial to check the chain with 240K given its labor. However at age and milege the contingent damage of chain break may more than car is worth, so perhaps chain should be looked at as a precaution. right? I suspect a broken chain will cause much more damage and cost than a precautionary check / replace. I suspect cams need to come off for T-chain.

- now confirmed my cas is base engine, It would seem loose engines are HARD to come by and expensive, contrary to what some said? What should be my search critera for an engine or trans? exact what search terms and what possible sites?

[lannvouivre]

No, the base 1ZZ-FE engine is very common. You can use the http://www.car-part.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; website, linked earlier, to find one nearby.

To replace the timing chain, several other parts have to come off that side of the engine to remove the timing cover. Removing the cams doesn't really take that long, but you need to have the timing cover off because the chain runs on the crankshaft and you have to slide it off there. I think you can actually check for wear from the top with only the valve cover off, since it appears more than 8 links of chain are visible from up there, however if the service manual says X labor hours for the timing chain, you will be charged for the amount specified by the book. Honestly, at this point a "newer" engine would probably be more cost-effective than paying to have the clearance and timing chain replaced or checked. You'll have a lot of wear on the engine, although it's nothing for a Toyota engine, besides the valve clearance and the chain.

You can probably check the valve clearance yourself, it's just a big pain rotating the engine by hand as it's a tight squeeze to get on the crank bolt.

[lannvouivre]

I should probably also mention that the 1ZZ-FE engine was also used in the Corolla, Celica, MR2 and Matrix. Probably any 1ZZ from 2003-2008 will do so long as it's not from an AWD/4WD model; the only difference between 03/4 and 05-08 is the change from a drive-by-cable throttle body to drive-by-wire, and you can keep your old TB. Those don't typically wear out or fail, although I have heard of it happening if the driver erratically pushes on the throttle/has an unsteady foot.