Blower comparison- Matrix vs. Vibe

[Tommychu]

So I went to the JY on a whim today, and much to my surprise I saw a totaled '03 XR. Cool, I thought. Got myself a RH Mirror, E-brake handle (with pretty chrome button), steering wheel and a blower motor, along with some other random bits. My blower has been on the way out for a year or so.
So I get it all home and start changing stuff out. Drop the ECU and start ripping the blower out... What's this? Matrix blower won't work in a Vibe. The cooling port for the motor is in a different spot.
So I took them both inside and took them apart to try and go for a brush swap since I knew that was all my motor needed. Pretty disappointed with what I saw. Not only were the brushes a drastically different size, but the motors themselves didn't have much in common. The Vibe blower is garbage in comparison:
Vibe motor was made by some no-name Korean company, Matrix motor made by good ol' ND (Denso)

Brushes are about 2mm shorter in height, and 3-4mm shorter in length on the Vibe. My brushes were worn to the point of falling out of their guides, but the Matrix ones were less than 30% worn (was able to guess original length by the length of the slot in the guide where the wire pokes through)

Armature is about 10-15mm wider in diameter, and appears to have almost double the windings, on the Matrix

Vibe shaft is wider in diameter, but is set into brass bushings with a very low quality grease. Matrix one looks like it's got at least one antifriction bearing, but I couldn't get that one apart far enough to tell.

One point for the Vibe is that the brush housings are mounted on rubber isolators, but that's likely just to compensate for the fact that a lower quality motor is always going to make more noise.

So basically, GM totally gave us the shaft as far as that goes. They likely went with the cheaper part to get us back to the dealership for a Genuine GM Replacement Part sooner (the cheaper initial cost benefit to them would have been shot down by the cost of designing and sourcing that alternate heater box that also uses a different cabin filter).
If I can get the Denso blower ripped apart any further I'll post pictures. And if that Matrix doesn't get crushed before next weekend, I'll be doing some upgrades to my HVAC system...

[tpollauf]

Interesting discovery Little things like this are what us consumers are never made aware of BUT it sounds typical for the big companies to "cut corners" so they can make more $$$. At least with the smaller cars (unlike big trucks & SUV's) their profit margins were smaller. Still this is upsetting when found! Great detective work. Now SOMEHOW modify the motor to make it fit. I know I could if it were in my hands

[455SD]

Oddly enough, I ran into similar situation, although it was with the AC Condensor. Looking at the information I have - it appears that GM used their own design for the majority, if not all of the the HVAC components. I believe Denso supplied the Toyota Matrix/Corolla, and Delphi the Pontiac Vibe. This is same issue with ECU's I believe, for those that have done actual comparisons, please correct me if I'm mistaken.
If there is still someone here who worked the Assy Line at NUMMI, they might be able to answer the one question I would have, and that is - Did the Corolla get the Delphi or Delco(GM) HVAC parts, or was the line set up with a complete different part supply system for the two vehicles. I know that when I was there, you would see both Vibes and Corollas going down the same line. I'm just not sure if there was like a separate sub-line for that portion of the different vehicles assembly, and then brought back together in sequence further downstream or not.

[Salsa Guy]

The ECUs are the same but vary from year to year. You are correct most of the HVAC is different.

[Chiadog]

Is it possible to replace Vibe blower brushes? I couldn't see any way to replace brushes end cap if I fully removed it. Looked Like I would have to destroy the rubber brush followers to relieve spring pressure on the brushes. Did you manage to re-assemble the vibe blower after having the brushes out/
thanks,
chiadog

[Tommychu]

Now SOMEHOW modify the motor to make it fit. I know I could if it were in my hands

If I had enough time I could have made it work, but when I had it all apart we had a sudden, massive drop in temp so I had to drop the big bucks for a new motor to get her back into service. That said, a conversion would be a lot of work for not much gain. The bolt circle is about 15-20mm larger, and the cooling port is run in a completely different manner (Vibe uses a tube same as old school GM stuff; Denso motor has ports on the end of the plate).

Is it possible to replace Vibe blower brushes? I couldn't see any way to replace brushes end cap if I fully removed it. Looked Like I would have to destroy the rubber brush followers to relieve spring pressure on the brushes. Did you manage to re-assemble the vibe blower after having the brushes out/
thanks,
chiadog

If I was able to find brushes I could have tossed it back together without a problem*. You can usually use bits of wire, picks or tiny zipties to hold the brushes back in their guides when sliding the housing on or off. Your motor might be internally different from mine though, I'd have to see the motor to determine what the issue you're having is.
*once again, that was just a matter of time constraints. I was frantically driving around the city from shop to shop trying to find a place that still sold brushes while the temperature was dropping; by the time I gave up and bought the new motor an inch of snow had dropped and my windshield started to frost... it was just below t-shirt weather earlier that afternoon. Of course I used to have a pile of scrap Kenworth alternators (they have huge brushes, you can file them down to fit just about anything) but they're long gone.