Battery problem - please help

[DanMan35]

2003 Pontiac Vibe Base

My gf and I went on a weekend vacation. When we got back her car would not start. None of the dash lights would come on. Nothing at all, no clicking, just nothing. I popped the hood and found that her positive terminal on her battery was covered with thick corrosion. I used a hard sponge and a screwdriver to scrape all of the corrosion off of the positive terminal and clean it up as much as possible. After doing this I went to start the car and nothing. No lights or anything. Then magically the radio turned on and the dash lights came on but still the car wouldn't start but when I went to move the shifter from Park into Neutral everything turned off again.

The dash lights would then come on and if I pushed on the brake pedal the dash lights would all flicker or turn off completely. So I finally jumped her car with mine and the battery took about two seconds until finally turning over and starting. Does this sound like strictly a battery issue or something else? Obviously it points to the battery if the terminal is corroded and if the car started once it was jumped. But I have never heard of a car's dash lights shutting off by just moving the shifter or shutting off or flickering by just pressing the brake pedal. Is this just simply a battery problem or is there more to it?

Maybe a bad relay or ground? Or not likely? Also, where can I buy a battery tray and tie down for a Pontiac Vibe? She is missing her battery tie down and that is causing the battery to move around.

[joatmon]

If the battery was very low, stepping on the brakes would cause the brake lights to put an extra load on it, and could drop the voltage

I'd recommend cleaning the negative battery terminal and both terminal connectors also. I use a wire brush or sandpaper, depending on what's handy, to get down to clean lead. Maybe the battery was just discharged, maybe it is on its way out.

[beemerphile1]

Joatman is spot on with the increased load theory.

What is the voltage of the battery? Do you have a digital VOM (volt, ohm, meter)?

Take both of those cables off and thoroughly clean them. Baking soda does a good job of neutralizing battery acid/corrosion. Remember to always remove the negative cable first and then put it back on last for safety.

[DanMan35]

You mentioned cleaning the negative terminal but you didn't say anything about cleaning the positive. Is the negative terminal usually the problem when a battery won't start the car? Because to be honest when I lifted up the hood, the only terminal that was corroded (and when I say corroded I mean there was a mountain of corrosion) was the positive terminal. The negative terminal looked fine. So I didn't even bother cleaning the negative. I just cleaned the positive terminal.

Either way I think I will get her a new battery just to be safe.

[joatmon]

Seems like the positive terminal on mine corrodes more than the negative. You had said that you already cleaned the positive terminal, all I was saying was that it's a good idea to clean both, since you need both for the juice to flow.

likely any auto part store sells some generic battery hold downs and battery trays/boxes, a Toyota or GM dealer (or a junkyard) can get you the OEM ones. Maybe reach out to Bad Vibe in viewtopic.php?f=46&t=37147" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and see if he has any available

[beemerphile1]

...Either way I think I will get her a new battery just to be safe.

Your description indicated a bad connection. Before you throw money at it let the auto parts store do a load test. Most auto parts stores do free battery load tests.

I'm guessing you are fairly young, you would be well served to buy a digital VOM and learn to use it. You will get a lot of use from it over a lifetime. I ask again, what is the voltage of the battery?

Battery terminal corrosion is normally caused by a broken seal around the battery post. The treated fiber washer they sell at the auto parts store will help to prevent corrosion if it is leaking around the post. That minor leakage does not indicate a bad battery.

[DanMan35]

First, I appreciate your help and your advice. I do not have a battery volt tester but I should get one as soon as possible. Regardless of that I figured it was time for a new battery anyways since we got the car 2 1/2 years ago and it has always had the same old looking battery in it. After all, it can't hurt. My gf has had her car for 2 1/2 years which she got at a pretty run down used dealership. I suspect the person that had the car previously didn't take very good care of it. Regardless, we have never replaced her battery in the 2 1/2 years she has had the car. I took her battery off and when I was removing the bolt from the positive terminal it was so corroded that the bolt snapped off and broke the terminal connector (the little loop that goes around the battery post) it looks more like a C now instead of an O since the end broke with the bolt. I took the battery to AutoZone today to get a new one and come to find out the battery that was in the car was a Ford battery. I got a Duralast battery along with some new battery terminal connectors. I can't seem to figure out how to replace the terminal connectors with the new ones. It seems like I might have to cut some of the wires but the positive terminal cable is so corroded that the bolt that holds the wires to the terminal end is all corroded together.

I was thinking I might just call and get a quote to see how much it would cost to have the new battery terminals installed since I already have the parts. But I'm hoping the actual battery wiring harness cables aren't bad. The negative cable is easy enough. I can see both grounding points. But the positive cable looks like it runs all around the engine and possibly under the radiator. I'm sure that would be a pain in the (removed) to change or quite a bit of money to pay for.

[ColonelPanic]

You do have to cut some length off the cable to install a new terminal. Not sure how much extra there is to work with.

Here's a link with pictures of someone doing this on a Corolla, same applies here: http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/Corr ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hopefully the new terminal will take care of it. A new positive cable would probably be the best way to go IMHO, but it would be the most expensive. The other end probably goes to the starter, and possibly another end that goes elsewhere, can't say for sure with the Vibe as I've never looked at it.

[DanMan35]

^^ I'm going to look at that link you gave me after posting this. But I looked at the positive wire and one end connects to the fuse box (which seems easy enough) but the other end is the problem. It seems to run around the engine and connect somewhere under the radiator.

Anyways, please see below for some more information and pictures that I took

Okay I have a couple questions.

You can see the green pad around the negative battery post. This Duralast battery came with a red and green pad for the negative and positive terminals on the battery. Is this the right way to put them on? Simply just slide them down on the post and then put the battery terminals over them? Also where do I put the battery grease on? Do I put it on the posts or the terminals or....?


In this pic you can see the negative terminal. Looks like it has a metal piece that is clamped around the battery wires. Do I just unclamp this metal piece to expose the wires to put the new battery terminal ends on?


You can see how bad the positive terminal end was. When I removed the bolt it snapped the terminal clamp which is why you can see the line going right down the middle. It is snapped in half. I cleaned it up as best I could and put a zip tie around the end to keep it together until I replace the terminal ends with the new ones.


You can see the old terminal end next to the brand new one I bought. You can also see the bolt on top of the old terminal end. This bolt is completely rusted and will not budge one bit. Is it okay to cut this off with a hacksaw or something similar so I can gain access to the positive terminal ends to clamp them to the new terminal end?


Another picture of how bad the positive terminal end is. This is AFTER I cleaned it as best I could. You can still see some bluish/greenish corrosion on the bottom end of it right up against the battery wires. Do you think I can get away with just replacing the terminal ends? Or do you think I will have to replace the entire battery cable/harness?

[DanMan35]

You do have to cut some length off the cable to install a new terminal. Not sure how much extra there is to work with.

Another thing. There is not much slack at all with the negative or positive terminal wires. I doubt I could get away with cutting off the old ones and even stripping an inch or two off the wires. They are already pretty tight as they are.

[beemerphile1]

Those generic battery cable ends are junk. Best bet would be go to a Toyota dealer, get new cables, and then do preventive maintenance in the future to prevent this from happening again.

[bluneon]

purchase a new positive terminal end from the dealership. also buy a new 12mm nut. the nut holds the old terminal in place. chances are it's severely corroded so much that it's no longer a 12mm and that it'll be seized.

i see no reason to replace or do anything w the negative terminal.

for cleaning, grab a can of coca cola, pour onto corrosion and allow to sit for a few. then wire brush as much of the corrosion as you can.
thoroughly rinse and dry everything, grease up the pads, install to battery posts, reinstall clamps. then grease up the terminals for good measure.