Auto XR Supercharger Review

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 2:13 pm

I posted this at matrixowners.com also: After months of waiting, my TRD SC was finally installed today. Here's my initial impressions: Sound: Love it! I was pulling up and saw the service tech take it for a spin. He punched it as he went by me and it sounded so sweet. One of the nicest sounding cars I've ever heard. This is with the TRD exhaust though. On the inside, it's not audible at idle. There is a slight whining sound when driving normally and it gets louder when gunning it. The sound is very nice from inside the car. Price: Without tax it was $3116.00 installed. I added a TRD air filter for an additional $48.00. Overall a great value for FI IMO. Power: It is a dramatic improvement. It really kicks in at about 15 mph and puts you back in your seat until it hits about 45 mph. After 45 mph, it is still very noticeable but not as dramatic. It feels like the ECU is holding it back at the higher speeds for some reason. The same problem with the auto still exists with the SC. There are certain parts in the power band where if feels like you need to downshift but it doesn't. It's an inherit problem with most standard autos and not a knock on the SC. On the other hand, as you XR/Base auto owners know, there is a sweet spot in the power band where the car takes off. Now that spot is very sweet. It's easy to spin the tires when making a turn. I haven't floored it yet going straight so I'm not sure if the tires will spin going straight, but I don't think they will dramatically. I can't keep it floored around turns now as the power has exceeded the limits of my TRD suspension. On the freeway, it doesn't really feel that much quicker but I did notice I made it to 80 mph pretty quickly. It is faster but it doesn't feel as dramatic as the lower speeds. How the auto tranny handles the power: It feels like the boost is cut when the tranny shifts and immediately kicks back in after the shift. It has to cost us some time but it's a good trade off as I don't think it places too much extra stress on the tranny. Downshifting seems much quicker and immediate. Not sure if it's because of the extra power or if it's because of the new ECU. Other tidbits: Appearance: They cut the engine cover to make it fit. Not too happy with that look. Other than that, it looks nice. CAI: The ownerâ€™s information sheet specifically says to not use any CAI. It says it will mess up the Air/Fuel ratio and installing one will void the supercharger warranty and the drive train warranty. The new airflow seems pretty good though but obviously not as good as a CAI. I did add the TRD air filter, as I don't think the stock air filter can keep up with the SC's needs. Thermostat: They installed a new 160-degree thermostat that replaced the 180-degree thermostat. It says if the original thermostat is used, it will result in poor performance. Spark Plugs: They recommend that the spark plugs be changed to 1 heat range colder due to the increased engine load. Fuel: 91 octane or better. Mileage: Unknown at this time. The old SC XR vs. XRS debate: I really can't say. My only experience with an XRS is a test drive in an auto and a short drive in a Vibe GT at the GM In-Motion event. My feeling is that the XRS 6-speed is quicker than the auto SC XR overall. If the auto SC is in the 2-3000 rpm range it's very quick but if it's at around 3500 rpm and doesn't down shift, not too much happens. An auto SC XR vs. an auto XRS: Again, I'm not saying this as fact, but I do feel the SC XR is quicker. The power really kicks in at about 2500 - 3000 rpm and hits redline very quickly. I'd also be surprised to see a stock XRS 6-speed beat a SC XR manual. Again, this is not to debate, just my honest opinion. I plan on meeting up with ToneDaBass tomorrow and I'm sure he'll have some input. My overall opinion: It's not super fast but it is a huge and noticeable improvement. Defiantly gets up to freeway speed much quicker and sounds great doing it. An Eclipse tried to pass me but I pulled on him. Couldn't do that before and wouldn't have even tried. Had a Suburban floor it at a light and was helpless with V8 SUVs before. Not anymore. I won't be beating SRT-4s or EVO's but I am very happy with the power increase. Really, the near perfect car for me now. What would make it perfect? More power! Does the need for speed really ever get satisfied?

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:59 pm

welcome to the world of 1zz-F/I !...good review!...torque is what pushes you back in your seat and makes it all fun..You said that the power isnot as dramatic at high er speeds..is that because the rpms are so low.?.have you down shifted to see if you get your pull back?...I am honestly suprised you posted so soon, because of all that important driving to be done ya know! happy boosting

rasermon · Post by **rasermon** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:19 am

Larry, congrats and thanks for your review.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:45 am

Once again, Congrats.

ArcsVibe · Post by **ArcsVibe** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:50 am

Congrats!!You are a lucky person

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:52 am

Congrats, and thanks for the info. Any pics yet?

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:40 am

quote: welcome to the world of 1zz-F/I !...good review!...torque is what pushes you back in your seat and makes it all fun..You said that the power isnot as dramatic at high er speeds..is that because the rpms are so low.?.have you down shifted to see if you get your pull back?...I am honestly suprised you posted so soon, because of all that important driving to be done ya know! happy boosting Thanks! It feels much better than N/A. Gunning out of a turn is very fun. As for posting it so soon. I had to! I was in competition with a guy from Matrix Owners to be the first one with a "purchased" SC. He's getting his installed as I type this. I don't think it's not as dramatic because of the lower rpms. It's either the ECU or the auto. With the auto it's not as easy to keep the rpm's where you want them.

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:44 am

shouldn't be too bad, turn off overdrive when at higher speeds, mine seems to stay between 4 and 5 pretty much on the highway

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:15 am

quote:shouldn't be too bad, turn off overdrive when at higher speeds, mine seems to stay between 4 and 5 pretty much on the highwayI'm still getting use to it. It seems to do better at 2-2500 rpm as opposed to the 3-4000 rpm for the N/A engine. With the auto, it's tougher to get to that rpm on demand throughout the powerband. It's all good though and the pickup is better at all speeds. I love the double takes I get when I floor it from cars next to me.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:30 pm

Wonder if GM will ever get one out for the Base Vibe? Again they are lagging way behind. Turbo's looking better again!I can't believe that a CAI will throw off the ECU's computation for the air mix that much to cause damage. I have one and I'm sure going to make it work.

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:05 am

quote:Wonder if GM will ever get one out for the Base Vibe? Again they are lagging way behind. Turbo's looking better again!I can't believe that a CAI will throw off the ECU's computation for the air mix that much to cause damage. I have one and I'm sure going to make it work. It should be out very soon. Only a few dealers in California had it last week. I was just fortunate enough to be on a waiting list at the right place. I'd guess Pontiac dealers will have it by the end of next week. It is just a guess though. As for the CAI, if you're going to try to make it work, do a before and after dyno to see if it makes a difference. If not, why bother. It may be too loud with a CAI but I'd like to know for sure.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:44 am

quote:... As for the CAI, if you're going to try to make it work, do a before and after dyno to see if it makes a difference. If not, why bother. It may be too loud with a CAI but I'd like to know for sure. Most of the benefits of a CAI should apply to a supercharged installation. Reduced inlet restriction means more boost, and cold air is especially important, as the SC heats the charge quite a lot. The only effect that would not apply would be if there was any pressure wave/resonant tuning going on with the normally aspirated set up, as this would not be the same with the SC.As far as noise, I have run my wife's SC Buick Park Avenue (different size, but same Roots design Eaton unit) without the air cleaner, and there is a high-pitched whine which doesn't sound nearly as good as a CAI, but it's not too loud.There are likely a number of sites with tech info on superchargers in general, and Eaton in particular, but here's one with some useful stuff:http://www.zzperformance.com/zzp/produc ... .htm#EATON PS: OK, our Matrix cousins got there first, but who's going to be the first Viber with an SC?

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:43 am

quote:... As for the CAI, if you're going to try to make it work, do a before and after dyno to see if it makes a difference. If not, why bother. It may be too loud with a CAI but I'd like to know for sure. As far as noise, I have run my wife's SC Buick Park Avenue (different size, but same Roots design Eaton unit) without the air cleaner, and there is a high-pitched whine which doesn't sound nearly as good as a CAI, but it's not too loud.Mad Bill!...would it be possible to inject pulverized water into the intake side of Sc, so that it would pass thru the lobes and then cool down the charge air....in turbo set ups you usually do that after the copressor/after the ic..so that the water does not condense and puddle in the IC,but you can do it befor the compressor, and the impellers chopp up the water ,if it was not done so well before.but it seems like It would not hurt the lobes or anything...or am I missing something...since there is no oppertunity to IC the charge on the SC vibe stet up..just trying to figue on makeing better efficiency!

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:06 am

I can't see any reason you couldn't use water injection, Faultline, as long as it was downstream of the Mass Flow Sensor. There was a drag car team a number of years ago that carefully asked the NHRA sanctioning body if water was a legal "fuel". The answer was "yes", so they used enormous boost (40+ psi) on the supercharger of their gasoline-fuelled car with a TON of water injection, and set a new top speed record almost 20 MPH over the existing one. NHRA promptly banned water injection in that class....There is a big BUT, however: As long as your boost level, compression ratio and fuel octane combination don't cause detonation or require a lot of spark retard, the water won't actually increase power, since the higher air density caused by the cooling effect of the water is cancelled by the water vapour displacing some of the air, and of course it will not burn. Therefore, water is best used for allowing more boost without detonation. (Would be perfect for a blown Vibe GT, where the 11.5:1 compression ratio is all wrong for supercharging. e.g., about 40 years ago Oldsmobile offered a turbocharged 215 c.i. aluminum V-8 which used the same 10:1 compression ratio as the regular engine. They used "Turbo Rocket Fluid" (50-50 water/alcohol) injection under boost to prevent detonation.)

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:12 am

quote:There is a big BUT, however: As long as your boost level, compression ratio and fuel octane combination don't cause detonation or require a lot of spark retard, the water won't actually increase power, since the higher air density caused by the cooling effect of the water is cancelled by the water vapour displacing some of the air, and of course it will not burn. Therefore, water is best used for allowing more boost without detonation. So I think it might be a good Idea for those who are going to void the warrant anyways and change the pulley sizes to spin the sc faster to up the boost..It will also be intersting to see if anyone dynos theirs to see how much timing they are retarding , if any, in this set up , and how much fuel enrichment ther will be to the a/f ratios...which could be leaner w/ the water/alcohol injection and =more hp..the really bad thing about water injction is when you calibrate every thing needing it , and you run out of water....!

Black4drGT · Post by **Black4drGT** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:26 pm

The dealer is going to let me know about the supercharger for the Vibe on Monday.

Black4drGT · Post by **Black4drGT** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:31 pm

Yes I know. I have a Grand Am GT

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 8:21 pm

quote:..the really bad thing about water injction is when you calibrate every thing needing it , and you run out of water....!That's for sure! Many years ago I bought an engine from one of those turbo Oldsmobiles I mentioned. Got it cheap because the Rocket Fluid had run out and the low fliud switch failed to open the waste gate, so it blew the tops out of several pistons...

Black4drGT · Post by **Black4drGT** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:32 pm

At the bottom they have the 0-60 and track times for both auto and manualhttp://www.partznet.com/toyota/corolla/trdcoro ... arger.html

Black4drGT · Post by **Black4drGT** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:52 am

I guess my dealer have the supercharger to buy for the base Vibe. He called it a Paxton supercharger.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:56 pm

I wonder how they got those times. Assuming the Matrix and Vibe run about the same times, then they are off by about 2 seconds in some cases! No way does a stock base auto Vibe take over 10 seconds to get to 60MPH! Mine with a CAI and exhaust can do it in just under 8sec.And it says a S/C XR manual will do the 1/4 mile in 16.9 sec? A base Vibe will already do 17.1 WITHOUT THE S/C! Acording to car-stats.com which got thier info from Car&Driver mag.But I do like how they say that the S/C XR ( S/C Base Vibe) will beat the XRS (Vibe GT).

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:36 pm

quote:I wonder how they got those times. Assuming the Matrix and Vibe run about the same times, then they are off by about 2 seconds in some cases! No way does a stock base auto Vibe take over 10 seconds to get to 60MPH! Mine with a CAI and exhaust can do it in just under 8sec.And it says a S/C XR manual will do the 1/4 mile in 16.9 sec? A base Vibe will already do 17.1 WITHOUT THE S/C! Acording to car-stats.com which got thier info from Car&Driver mag.But I do like how they say that the S/C XR ( S/C Base Vibe) will beat the XRS (Vibe GT).It says 15.9 for the SC Manual and 16.9 for the SC auto. Like any Matrix/Vibe though, the 1/4 mile times does not do it justice.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:51 pm

I agree with you about the 1/4 mile times. I just don't believe some of those times that are posted unless they had the A/C (air conditioner) on.I'm more interested in 0-60 and then having really good passing power above 65 mph.

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:31 am

quote:I agree with you about the 1/4 mile times. I just don't believe some of those times that are posted unless they had the A/C (air conditioner) on.I'm more interested in 0-60 and then having really good passing power above 65 mph.The passing power is much better at all speeds. I don't have to keep flooring it to pass about 65 mph now.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:26 pm

I think that's one of the biggest advantages of your setup now and one of the reasons I like sticks. You can keep it in gear and still pull ahead. I bet you like it more every day. Are you getting that dyno?

baltimore17 · Post by **baltimore17** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:27 am

Do you really need 91 octane with the SC? Will the knock sensor still save your (removed) with 87 octane, albeit with lower peak power? Will the knock sensor so retard your spark that you get nothing out of the SC with regular gas?

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:24 pm

quote:Do you really need 91 octane with the SC? Will the knock sensor still save your (removed) with 87 octane, albeit with lower peak power? Will the knock sensor so retard your spark that you get nothing out of the SC with regular gas?I had a dyno done today and they measured the air/fuel ratio. It's running very rich when in boost. The mechanic said he thinks it's because TRD is being conservative in case someone does put 87 octane in. I'm going to put a smaller fuel injector on in place of the extra one that came with the kit. This should put it where it needs to be and give me about 10 more hp.

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:28 pm

quote:I think that's one of the biggest advantages of your setup now and one of the reasons I like sticks. You can keep it in gear and still pull ahead. I bet you like it more every day. Are you getting that dyno?Yes, it was done today. Here are the results:Before SC but with TRD CAI, and exhaust:Max WHP: 115Max Torque: 109After SC:Max WHP: 147Max Torque: 139

Rivlen · Post by **Rivlen** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:35 am

I have a question and hopefully someone can clarify this, it may already have been discussed (???) ...The latest posted article about the SuperCharger states that the SC for a Vibe and Matrix are not interchangeable. I'm confused at this statement as both Base models have the same engine configuration and should they not also have the same Wiring Harness and ECU? Otherwise, why could I not just take my Vibe to the Toyota Shop and have them install the SC? Aside from the obvious differences in exterior styling, I would think that engine / suspension parts would be interchangeable between the two.I even asked a mechanic at my local dealer about it, and at their suggestion to talk to Toyota (as they didn't know too much about it yet), was baffled when I told him about some of the points in this article.Can anyone comment more specificaly / technically on this?

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:55 am

Yes, the computers are different. No idea why but they are.

QUIKAG · Post by **QUIKAG** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:18 am

quote:I think that's one of the biggest advantages of your setup now and one of the reasons I like sticks. You can keep it in gear and still pull ahead. I bet you like it more every day. Are you getting that dyno?Yes, it was done today. Here are the results:Before SC but with TRD CAI, and exhaust:Max WHP: 115Max Torque: 109After SC:Max WHP: 147Max Torque: 139Horsepower jump isn't all that great at 32whp, but the torque jump is very nice at 30lb/ft, that is the difference you feel!!

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:03 am

quote:I think that's one of the biggest advantages of your setup now and one of the reasons I like sticks. You can keep it in gear and still pull ahead. I bet you like it more every day. Are you getting that dyno?Yes, it was done today. Here are the results:Before SC but with TRD CAI, and exhaust:Max WHP: 115Max Torque: 109After SC:Max WHP: 147Max Torque: 139Horsepower jump isn't all that great at 32whp, but the torque jump is very nice at 30lb/ft, that is the difference you feel!! Yes, it is running very rich under boost though. It looks like TRD is dumping extra fuel under boost. Probably for safety reasons. I should be able to fix that witha smaller auxillary fuel injector. The mechanic said I should see a 10-15 hp increase with that alone. My car will be used to prototype a new exhaust also. That should add another 15-20 whp. When it's all done, I'll be very happy with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy now but more power is always good.

QUIKAG · Post by **QUIKAG** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:16 am

I wouldn't hold your breath for a 15-20whp gain with the exhaust. Leaning out the mixture should help with power. Make sure you're safe though!

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:07 am

quote:I wouldn't hold your breath for a 15-20whp gain with the exhaust. Leaning out the mixture should help with power. Make sure you're safe though! It's the entire exhaust system, including headers. Let me know what you think. http://www.jpperformancellc.com/

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:36 am

quote:...Max WHP: 115Max Torque: 109After SC:Max WHP: 147Max Torque: 139...it is running very rich under boost though. .... Great work, Larry, both by being first with an SC report, and for getting on the dyno with same!An observation and a question:1. Those results seem to match TRD's data, if you accept the 130 HP rating of the stock engine: 130/115 x 147 = 166.2 HP, vs. TRD's 166 rating. If you go with the widely-accepted "real" value of 140 for the stock engine, you get: 140/115 x 147 = 179 HP. Hmmm....2. I'd be really interested to know the actual air/fuel ratio from your dyno test, both stock and SC. I have a feeling the stock calibration is on the lean side...

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:39 pm

quote:...Max WHP: 115Max Torque: 109After SC:Max WHP: 147Max Torque: 139...it is running very rich under boost though. .... Great work, Larry, both by being first with an SC report, and for getting on the dyno with same!An observation and a question:1. Those results seem to match TRD's data, if you accept the 130 HP rating of the stock engine: 130/115 x 147 = 166.2 HP, vs. TRD's 166 rating. If you go with the widely-accepted "real" value of 140 for the stock engine, you get: 140/115 x 147 = 179 HP. Hmmm....2. I'd be really interested to know the actual air/fuel ratio from your dyno test, both stock and SC. I have a feeling the stock calibration is on the lean side...Yes, the stock air/fuel ratio was lean. It was obvious by the color of the spark plugs when we switched them out. The stock number was 17.5 and with the SC it is 9 or less. The machine only goes to 9 so it could even be lower. I'm guessing the crank hp is 180. I get that by assuming the auto loses about 18% of the hp through the drivetrain. 180*.82=147. Both dyno's can be viewed at home.earthlink.net/~larry5874

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:15 pm

quote:Yes, it is running very rich under boost though. It looks like TRD is dumping extra fuel under boost. Probably for safety reasons. I should be able to fix that witha smaller auxillary fuel injector. The mechanic said I should see a 10-15 hp increase with that alone. My car will be used to prototype a new exhaust also. That should add another 15-20 whp. When it's all done, I'll be very happy with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy now but more power is always good. But larry...I thought you were concerned about the warranty...If you start tweanking the fuel injector .w/a smaller one....???I know ...I should talk...but I am not expecting the warrany to cover my motor should I blow it up ...Btw ...I have never seen a 5th injector set up...so where exactly is it placed?....I remember once reading that the 5th injectors fuel was cooling temps down as well...

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:40 pm

quote:Yes, it is running very rich under boost though. It looks like TRD is dumping extra fuel under boost. Probably for safety reasons. I should be able to fix that witha smaller auxillary fuel injector. The mechanic said I should see a 10-15 hp increase with that alone. My car will be used to prototype a new exhaust also. That should add another 15-20 whp. When it's all done, I'll be very happy with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy now but more power is always good. But larry...I thought you were concerned about the warranty...If you start tweanking the fuel injector .w/a smaller one....???I know ...I should talk...but I am not expecting the warrany to cover my motor should I blow it up ...Btw ...I have never seen a 5th injector set up...so where exactly is it placed?....I remember once reading that the 5th injectors fuel was cooling temps down as well...I suppose you have a point. If something went seriously wrong though, it'd be pretty easy to switch it back. Being carb-certified was actually the biggest concern for me though. Now that I have the carb-certified sticker, I can play with it a little. I'm also going to inject a 50/50 mixture of water and alcohol into the intake right before the SC to cool the air. Should be a pretty simple set-up. The fifth injector is placed to the lower right of the SC. It is used to cool the air which is why I'm adding the water/alcohol injection. I'm having it done by a performance shop though with Rick (Another Matrix Turbo owner). They'll measure the A/F ratio until it's just right. I'm also going to up the boost to 9 psi with a smaller pulley. Next will be an intercooler for my auto tranny. All relatively cheap upgrades that will be easy to undo if necessary. I have no idea how all this will work with the ECU but I guess I'll find out soon. If everything goes as planned and the new complete exhaust I'm going to have installed, I hope to be close to 180 whp. For an auto, that's pretty impressive.

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:22 pm

[QUOTE] I'm also going to up the boost to 9 psi with a smaller pulley. Next will be an intercooler for my auto tranny. All relatively cheap upgrades that will be easy to undo if necessary. I have no idea how all this will work with the ECU but I guess I'll find out soon. If everything goes as planned and the new complete exhaust I'm going to have installed, I hope to be close to 180 whp. For an auto, that's pretty impressive. [/QUOTEYou havent even had the thing for week, and the power addiction grows Hang'in w/ 13psi Rick doesn't help either LOL...what about that smaller pulley though?...I thought it was soooo small already, that you would have to use a belt tensioner to use a smaller one for fear of the belt jumping...or does Rick have one lined up already...??BTW...did you get to see the SC befor the instahl ...and watch the lobes turn from the botom? ...Its pretty impresive!

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:45 pm

quote: I'm also going to up the boost to 9 psi with a smaller pulley. Next will be an intercooler for my auto tranny. All relatively cheap upgrades that will be easy to undo if necessary. I have no idea how all this will work with the ECU but I guess I'll find out soon. If everything goes as planned and the new complete exhaust I'm going to have installed, I hope to be close to 180 whp. For an auto, that's pretty impressive. [/QUOTEYou havent even had the thing for week, and the power addiction grows Hang'in w/ 13psi Rick doesn't help either LOL...what about that smaller pulley though?...I thought it was soooo small already, that you would have to use a belt tensioner to use a smaller one for fear of the belt jumping...or does Rick have one lined up already...??BTW...did you get to see the SC befor the instahl ...and watch the lobes turn from the botom? ...Its pretty impresive! Rick is looking into it. The current size is about 2 11/16 inches. He seems pretty knowledgable. You're right, the power is addictive. TRD seems to have gone the very conservative route with the SC and I just want to bring it close to it's true potential without damaging the drivetrain. I understand why they have to. If someone put 87 octane in it probably wouldn't do any damage because it's running so rich. I won't make that mistake.

QUIKAG · Post by **QUIKAG** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:18 am

quote:It's the entire exhaust system, including headers. Let me know what you think. http://www.jpperformancellc.com/ One thing that I've heard and read is that reduced backpressure with superchargers can actually inhibit performance. I have a friend with a supercharged C5 and he hasn't gotten an exhaust or headers to maintain cylinder pressures. His car runs like a bat outta you know what...I could be wrong, but I'd do a lot of homework before spending the bank on a full header/cat-back system!

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 8:28 am

quote:It's the entire exhaust system, including headers. Let me know what you think. http://www.jpperformancellc.com/ One thing that I've heard and read is that reduced backpressure with superchargers can actually inhibit performance. I have a friend with a supercharged C5 and he hasn't gotten an exhaust or headers to maintain cylinder pressures. His car runs like a bat outta you know what...I could be wrong, but I'd do a lot of homework before spending the bank on a full header/cat-back system!I've heard that too but when I talked to the owner of the performance shop, he said you want the exhaust out as quickly as possible with a supercharger. I'm not paying for the system. I just have to let them use my car to fabricte it. He increased the hp on a SC Solara by 25 hp to the wheel. They will build the final spec to increase performance throughout the pwoerband.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:07 am

quote:....One thing that I've heard and read is that reduced backpressure with superchargers can actually inhibit performance. I have a friend with a supercharged C5 and he hasn't gotten an exhaust or headers to maintain cylinder pressures. His car runs like a bat outta you know what...I could be wrong, but I'd do a lot of homework before spending the bank on a full header/cat-back system!I've heard that too but when I talked to the owner of the performance shop, he said you want the exhaust out as quickly as possible with a supercharger. I'm not paying for the system. I just have to let them use my car to fabricte it. He increased the hp on a SC Solara by 25 hp to the wheel. They will build the final spec to increase performance throughout the pwoerband. Repeat after me:"Backpressure is not my friend!". A supercharger greatly increases the exhaust volume and backpressure. In fact racing engines built for supercharged applications ofen even use bigger exhaust valves at the expense of shrinking the inlets, to cope. That supercharged Corvette would almost certainly make 30 HP more with a good exhaust.Hey Larry, how about you tap into your exhaust just downstream of the first cat and check it out? Mine was just over 4 psi at redline, dropping to a bit over 2 when I bypassed the main muffler. I bet you would hit 8 with the SC and stock exhaust. A lot of top engine builders target no more than 2 psi, preferrably 1, for hot street motors and it takes some pretty sophisticated efforts to achieve on say a 700+ HP V-8!. I'm sure you would pick up at least 10-12 HP with a good system.

KSNeptune · Post by **KSNeptune** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:44 am

I'm not sure what's really leading out from the engine, but based on the size of the exhaust pipe on my base Vibe Auto, it could be that they've already allowed for the potential SC increase by putting on a bigger pipe. It sure looks larger than anything I've seen on any other 4-cylinder car.KSNeptune

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:18 am

Any plans to test the S/C with a CAI? If it's running rich and you want cooler air in the blower then why not start with a CAI? Or is that a CARB issue that you don't want to deal with?

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:29 am

quote:I'm not sure what's really leading out from the engine, but based on the size of the exhaust pipe on my base Vibe Auto, it could be that they've already allowed for the potential SC increase by putting on a bigger pipe. It sure looks larger than anything I've seen on any other 4-cylinder car.KSNeptune The pipe tip is over 3", and is said to be the largest installed in any high-volume production vehicle, but the rest of the system (at least the parts I measured) are ~2-1/4", which is a decent size for the power. I think it's the muffler(s) that could use improvement.

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:46 pm

quote:Any plans to test the S/C with a CAI? If it's running rich and you want cooler air in the blower then why not start with a CAI? Or is that a CARB issue that you don't want to deal with?It's not a CARB issue. It's a warranty issue. Toyota claims the Mass Air Flow sensor will not be able to apply a correct Air/Fue ratio. Installing one voids both the SC warranty and the vehicle powertrain warranty. It does come with a different intake than stock though. I don't think a CAI would make that big of a difference in performance so for me it's not worth the risk. I know of one person who has both though so if I find out any more info, I'll pass it along. Is the SC available for the Vibe yet?

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:14 am

[/QUOTE] Is the SC available for the Vibe yet? [/QUOTE]Not even a wisper. Thanks for all your info! Re-reading what I've wrote kinda sounds like I'm bashing or venting but please believe me that I'm not. I read your post's on 'the other' forums and now understand how your going about upgrading the S/C. Keep up the the good work! I want to see you reach 200whp!Has Unichip done any work on Vibes at all. I hear lots of good things from them.

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 7:01 am

quote: Is the SC available for the Vibe yet? Not even a wisper. Thanks for all your info! Re-reading what I've wrote kinda sounds like I'm bashing or venting but please believe me that I'm not. I read your post's on 'the other' forums and now understand how your going about upgrading the S/C. Keep up the the good work! I want to see you reach 200whp!Has Unichip done any work on Vibes at all. I hear lots of good things from them.I wonder what the hold up is on the Vibe SC. Should be out any day now. I never felt like you were bashing. As far as I know Unichip is working on one for the Matrix. I don't know about the Vibe. Here's a good thread for the Matrix though in case you missed it. http://www.matrixowners.com/modules.php ... sc&start=0

chung7 · Post by **chung7** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:17 pm

So the average price for the new vibe supercharger will be $3,000? Any idea if that will go down in the near future?Any idea which dealers in Southern California have the superchargers yet?Thanks!