2010 1.8 L Pontiac Vibe - 4 speed automatic ! - RPM and Transmission Shift

[ionelz]

I just got a brand new one ! and I am Very frustrated ! All may cars, so far, in this life, where manual transmission. I can not, I CAN NOT, believe ( and I am frustrated !!!) that at 70-80 mile/houres, the engine RPM is over 3000 at ~ 3100 I believe !!! I called right the way the dealer "complaining" that the 4th shift gear is maybe not working ! He said NO, I expected to drop back to 2000... I believe the car shift in 4th at around ~ 50-60 mile/h and that is it, no more shift, just press the pedall !Questions please (sorry, if to many) :01. Is this normal for 2010 Vibe 1.8 L engine !?02. Same thing happening in Matrix and/or Corrola ?03. What is the RPM (at 70-80 mile/h) on 5th gear , manual Vibe transmission (in fact I wanted the car with manual transmission but changed my mind in last moment and I regret now) ?04. Is the engine (1.8 L) the same like in Matrix ? and/or Corolla ?05. Same question for Transmission !06. The engine, is a Toyota engine or a Yamaha one !?07. How in this world, this engine can get 32 mile/gal HYW at 3200 rpm ? and how reliable can be at this RPM ? and if in a manual transmission, rpm drop, how the mileage can be the same on HWY ?

[lovemyraffe]

I can't be 100% on the 2010 models, but on my '05 1.8L 4 spd auto, 80 mph is about 3,000 rpm. I get 33-35 mpg at freeway speeds of 75-80 mph.

[beemerphile1]

Are you sure you're in fourth, maybe you are in third? They are right beside each other.

[ionelz]

Yes, I am in D not in 3 !

[Old Tele man]

...I have a 2009 Vibe 1.8L (2ZR-FE) with 4-speed automatic and in "D" it gets 24.08 mph per 1,000 engine rpm, or roughly:35 mph = 1.45K rpm45 mph = 1.87K rpm55 mph = 2.28K rpm65 mph = 2.70K rpm75 mph = 3.11K rpm85 mph = 3.53K rpm...of course, the above values are influenced by wheel diameter (16"), tire dimensions (P205/55R16; 840 rev-per-mile) and transmission GEAR (0.700:1) and AXLE (4.237:1) numbers.FWIW, the equation for above is:MPH = [ 60/(GEAR*AXLE) ] * [ RPM(eng) / rpm(tire) ]where:GEAR = "D" gear ratio (0.700:1, from New-Cars.com)AXLE = Final axle ratio (4.237:1, from New-Cars.com)RPM(eng) = Engine revolutions-per-minuterpm(tire) = Tire revolutions-per-MILE (840 for OEM Goodyear Eagle RS-A P205/55R16, from Goodyear dealership)...yes, they could've LOWERED the final ratio for better highway economy, but obviously didn't....and, yes, the 'base' Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe use exactly the same 1.8L engines and transmissions. And, although the Vibe was built at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA, and the Matrix is made at a Canadian plant, they're both Toyota-made cars.CORRECTION--corrected gear and final axle ratios (Thanks, ionelz)

[ionelz]

If you go here : http://www.pontiac.com/vibe/sp...ash=N you have :Final Drive Axle Ratio = 4.31 and Fourth Gear Ratio = 0.89

[jake75]

I need to double check, but I think at 65 mph my 2009 1.8L rpm's are closer to 3,000 than to 2,500.Logically wouldn't the rpms vary due the the weight in the car? The engine has to work harder to move a car with 1,000 lbs. of passingers vs. just one passenger at 200 lbs.

[B14CK_H4WK]

sounds about right my 04 auto runs at 3000rpm when I'm going 80 im guessing its either the same engine or close, and the gears are prob the same. your used to a manual which most come with either a 5 speed or a 6 speed and the gears are gapped more.

[star_deceiver]

5th gear with the stick at 3000rpm is about 114km/h (71mph). 5000 rpm in 5th is 185km/h (also where the speed limiter kicks in). The gear ratios in the 4 speed auto are: 2.85:1, 1.55:1, 1:1, 0.7:1, with a final drive of 3.39:1. You had it in 3rd, if you do the math (and if you go here, http://www.4lo.com/calc/gearratio.htm You can!)The engine in the base 1.8L is the Toyota 2ZR-FE, the 5speed manual is the C151 and the 4 speed auto is the U341E, all toyota running gear. The 4 speed auto in the awd IS NOT the same as the base 4 speed auto. The Awd auto is the U140F and has a 4th gear ratio of 1.019:1 with a final drive of 2.81:1.Altogether for the 2009-10 Vibe there are 5 diffrent tranny's!!!FYI at 70mph, my moms old 01 civic did 3500, my old 84 civic wagon did the same. The Sunfire does 128km/h at 3000 rpm, and the bike does 9500 rpm at 70mph. High rpm doesn't mean you'll get bad mileage, at 70+mph aerodynamics plays a major role!!!

[B14CK_H4WK]

do they have a speed limiter on the old GT vibes?

[star_deceiver]

I'm sure that they do.Speed limiters are usually set to the speed ratings of the tires. What is the max speed on the GT's (both generations)

[TONY TAT2]

It dies take awhile to get use to the shift patern,espically in the automatics,the rpm level will seem high. If it was lower ,it would fall flat on its face & you would always be hitten the gas pedal to downshift,drop a gear.My delema is driven 5 cars that all shift at various RPM levels& speed.I drove the G6 today/the wifes car & its has its own paternThe 85 can cruze at 55MPH at 1,500 RPM in OD /automatic transThe 78 is around 3,500Rpm at 55MPH with a 4SPD ManualThe 93 is a V6 with a electric lock up torque converter,has a mind of it's own,shifts when it feels like it.09 vibe shifts like your 10

[ou.grizzly]

Around 2 weeks ago Noonan Pontiac in Sterling Hts, MI had a few manual transmissions available on 2010 Vibes. Anyways....It is a Toyota Engine, Toyota Transmission; the same that comes in the Matrix and Corolla. 3,000 RPM's (give or take) is normal for 60 mph speeds... Enjoy the vehicle, there is nothing wrong with it...

[ionelz]

I know about that, in fact, first time I tested a manual one and then I said "let it be automatic" ! 01. But for my information, what would be the RPM at, let say 70 mile/h, in 5th manual ?02. Also, I have seen here : http://www.edmunds.com/pontiac/vibe/review.html ( see in "Used Pontiac Vibe Models" row ~ 14 that 1.8 L engine is a ... Yamaha one !03. Please explain how HWY milage is the same for 1.8l engine with 4 speed auto at 3000 rpm and 5 speed manual at probably way less ?

[ionelz]

Also, the engine RPM with an automatic trans is higher then the one with an manual trans. What is usually (in milage) the life of this engine rate (for what I see 2000 RPM is usually) . Also RPM is the same in Matrix and Corolla at a given Milage/h ? Again, I do not have complains about Vibe at all but I drove so far ONLY manual cars and 3000 RPM is un-normal to me !!!! My "CLUNKER" Ford Explorer 4 L engine with manual trans , never been over 2200 RPM...

[Old Tele man]

...here's what the OVERALL (final axle and "D" or top gear) ratio numbers are, ie: AXLE-times-"D" or "5th":5sp_Man( base ) 3.12 = 4.310(axle)*0.725("5th")4sp_Auto( 1.8L ) 2.97 = 4.237(axle)*0.700("D")4sp_Auto( AWD ) 2.87 = 2.814(axle)*1.019("D")5sp_Auto(2.4L/GT) 2.38 = 3.391(axle)*0.703("D")5sp_Man( std GT ) 3.10 = 4.235(axle)*0.731("5th")...so, 5A is theoretically best for MPG, followed by the 4A(AWD) and then 4A(1.8L), with 5M(GT) and 5M(base) last, ie:2.38:1 <--best for MPG; 2.4L(base)2.87:12.97:1 <--1.8L(base)3.10:13.12:1 <--best for acceleration

[zoomie]

Maybe someone could post the RPMs at the shift points of Automatics with 1.8L engines. Im curious because Id like to shift at the most economical revs. Hope this isnt hijacking as it seems the OPs questions have been addressed OK.

[star_deceiver]

Don't let the engine rev over 2000 rpm, use the lightest touch you can on the throttle, keep it under 55mph, drive like granny...ect! But that's just no fun!!!

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by ionelz »02. Also, I have seen here : http://www.edmunds.com/pontiac/vibe/review.html ( see in "Used Pontiac Vibe Models" row ~ 14 that 1.8 L engine is a ... Yamaha one !You should of tested both vehicles on Van (removed) X Way heading towards 26 mile then to get a feel for both and watch the RPM's. On a second note, that article is talking about the 2003-2006 Vibe GT/Matrix XRS 2ZZ Engine which was a Yamaha Engine, yet that is not the same engine you have in your Vibe. Your 1.8 litre is Toyota.

[iucu]

Is too late now, but I am happy with this one too. How should I be with a brand new car !? I get the same RPM like anyone else at a given speed. Anyway I expected that at 60-70 mile per hour the RPM to drop at around 2000 , I expected the Overdrive to take care about it but looks like it not the case with this transmission

[lovemyraffe]

Checked it yesterday 70 mph=2600 rpm

[iucu]

This mean that the 1.8L engine with 4 speed auto will wear more then with 5 speed manual ? Say at 70 mile/h with 4 speed auto, RPM is at least 3000 RPM

[star_deceiver]

Use synthetic oil and change it on a regular basis. Smaller displacement engines rarely come with high-overdrive transmissions.The drivetrain components will wear however you drive the car but will wear a lot faster if you drive the hell out of it everyday.

[iucu]

OK I did a "study" today and :First Shift , when you put in DriveSecond Shift, is at ~ 10 mile per hourThirth Shift is at ~ 30 mile per hourForth Shift, is at ~ 40 mile per hourAt 50 mile per hour - RPM is 2000At 60 mile per hour - RPM is 2450At 70 mile per hour - RPM is 2900At 80 mile per hour - RPM is 3200Is this normal ?

[star_deceiver]

Yes!

[zoomie]

Quote, originally posted by iucu »OK I did a "study" today and :First Shift , when you put in DriveSecond Shift, is at ~ 10 mile per hourThirth Shift is at ~ 30 mile per hourForth Shift, is at ~ 40 mile per hourcheers

[Old Tele man]

...was the 5-speed automatic actually available on the 2009-2010 1.8L engine vehicles?...I ask, because the literature "seems" to imply that it was an available option, but our local Pontiac salesman didn't know anything about it.

[jake75]

The '09 brochure I have has a chart showing what is standard and available on each model - only the 4 speed automatic is available for the 1.8L, and only the 5 speed automatic is available on the 2.4L's.Edmunds pricing confirms this for both the 2009 and 2010.

[Old Tele man]

...darn! I was hoping it might be a simple "swap-bolt" fit...obviously not!

[iucu]

On 2010 Vibe, 1.8 L engine (2ZR-FE), only the 4 speed auto (U341E)is available. Anyway, after this economic "crisis" I expect another one, the "oil" one, so 1.8 L was my only option . But, I am curious, what is the life in mileage, of this combination (engine-transmission) ? How many miles you got in your Vibe without any major mechanical problems ?

[jake75]

As someone on here likes to say - "your mileage may vary".Compared to the universe of engines and drive trains, from what I have read I would say this 1.8L and AT powertrain is much better than average.But some will last 60,001 miles and others 260,001 miles. I would bet $100 that the drivetrain in my 2009 Vibe lives longer than I do, but if I win I won't be around to collect anyway will I.

[Old Tele man]

iucu -- "But, I am curious, what is the life in mileage, of this combination (engine-transmission)? How many miles you got in your Vibe without any major mechanical problems ?"...bought new 2009 1.8L (2ZR-FE) with 4-spd Auto 17-Apr-09, and now have 6.4K miles...so far, the 5-month average is 34.3 mpg (90% highway @ 60 mph; 10% city @ 35-40 mph) with A/C on in afternoon, but not in mornings....no service (yet) except oil change (5W-20 synthetic).

[iucu]

Could someone here do the chart for Vibe 2010 1.8L /5 speed manual ?2010 Vibe 1.8 L with 4 speed autoAt 40 mile/hour - RPM ~ 1600At 50 mile/hour - RPM ~ 2000At 60 mile/hour - RPM ~ 2450At 70 mile/hour - RPM ~ 2900At 80 mile/hour - RPM ~ 3200

[leemur]

Just off the cuff, my 09 2.4ltr. 5-speed auto runs 60mph at ~2000 rpm.But when you stomp her...she go!UPDATE:This is from my display not math. stock 205-55-1660mph____________1900rpm70mph____________2300rpm75mph____________2500rpm80mph____________2650rpm this is visually seems like it should be 2700.

[star_deceiver]

2009 1.8 5spd manual40mph - 1700rpm50mph - 2100rpm60mph - 2600rpm70mph - 3000rpm80mph - 3400rpm90mph - 3800rpm100mph - 4200rpm110mph - 4600rpm118mph - 5000rpm(speed limited)All rpm +/- a few (stare at the tach too much and say hello to mr. ditch!)stock 205-55-16's 8000kms on the car

[iucu]

2010 Pontiac Vibe 4 Speed Auto 5 Speed Manual (U341E) (C151)01) 2.847 3.1702) 1.552 1.903) 1 1.3104) 0.7 0.8905) - 0.73Fianl 4.237 4.31 Well, this show clear that 1.8 L engine (2ZR-FE) with manual transmission has more power and better acceleration ! However the Forth in Auto and Fifth in Manual (ratio's) are ~ the same so, on HWY, engine RPM is ~ the same.

[Old Tele man]

...yes, it's true the manual transmission has lower FIRST GEARING, but you're forgetting to account for the TORQUE-multiplication that occurs in automatics' torque-converter (before it's 'locked').

[star_deceiver]

Quote, originally posted by Old Tele man » (before it's 'locked').Hence the term "slushbox"For true torque manipulation, choose a vehicle with a CVT.

[Old Tele man]

re: "...For true torque manipulation, choose a vehicle with a CVT."...nope, that'd be "...for infinite torque manipulation..." maybe, but not the only TRUE torque control because gears and levers have been doing it for millenia, thank you....gears do it in rotary fashion, levers do it in linear fashion, and screws combine the two methods.

[star_deceiver]

Quote, originally posted by Old Tele man »"...for infinite torque manipulation..." Well, close enough.... Quote, originally posted by Old Tele man »You're forgetting to account for the TORQUE-multiplication that occurs in automatics' torque-converter (before it's 'locked').Great for towing but..... it's still an automatic! With a 3 spd auto that torque manipulation came in really handy. But with todays 4-7+ speed auto's there's not too much need for a converter with that much slip.

[VibeBuyer]

Hey There, I like the way you think. Perhaps you could help me (or suggest to me a way to obtain the information that I need via this site):I'm considering buying a Vibe for gas mileage. I drive about 30,000 - 40,000 miles per year. I was stuck on getting a manual trans (I like shifting), and I just thought that getting a 1.8L is the best way to go for gas mileage. (32mpg highway)However, many tell me that I will not really get the best gas mileage from it if I'm driving 70-75 mph. I'm told: 1. The 1.8L has to work harder up and down hills, and also if I 'load it up' with people and cargo. (Most of my driving is by myself, with a laptop, file folder box, gym bag and overnight bag as cargo - 150lbs for me and about 60lbs of stuff). I'm told that I should get the 2.4 L engine regardless because it will work less and will give about the same gas mileage as the 1.8L (if I'm driving between 74-79mph).2. Should I really get a Manual? I like it, but if the 2.4L with the 5spAuto is getting the same gas mileage or better than the 1.8L with the 5ps Manual, then should I really get the manual. If I do get the manual, should I get the 2.4 or the 1.8L.I would hate to end up with a 1.8L, Manual, and see the rpms at 3400 at 80mph (see your thread: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=38325) and think that I am burning more gas than if I am driving a 2.4L with Auto!I notice your discussion on final drive ratios and decided to ask you what you thought of my dilemma.Can you help me to clarify this subject to request good information from all? I just want to see what gas mileage folks are getting with the 1.8L/5spdManual vs the 2.4L/5spdManual. And whether the difference is worth staying at the 1.8L (in the fun factor).

[tpollauf]

Hi there & Welcome to this forum. I'd go with the 2.4L and a manual 5 speed. For REAL mileage numbers, check out my "mpg tune" site at http://www.mpgtune.com/dashboard.php?carId=4740. Myself and others log gas mileage readings and it's posted here and on other sites also. This will give you an idea of what to expect. I love my stick shift (all my cars for the past 35+ years were stick). Also, you may seem to be a "light cargo" individual TODAY, but who is to know the future where you just might be hauling around a bit more stuff & people to where the 2.4L would be the better choice then. Let us know on this forum what you end up getting

[star_deceiver]

Quote, originally posted by VibeBuyer »I would hate to end up with a 1.8L, Manual, and see the rpms at 3400 at 80mph.This is 5th gear. 1.8, 5 speed stick.BTW, drove at that speed for about 3/4 of the tank and still pulled off 28mpg with my studded tires!

523819=15725-Vibe144b.jpg

[DJ_Losch_411]

I'm hitting around 8000 rpm at 65 mph in second gear in my GT.

[iflytaildr]

My Mazda Miata with 1.8 5spd man turns up 4k @ 80 mph and still gets 30mpg. These small 4 cyl engines last forever and are designed to run those kinds of rpms all day long. Dont try to reinvent the wheel. Drive them and enjoy!

[tpollauf]

Just out of curiosity, when driving home from the rink last night, my 2.4L manual 5-speed, turned 3200rpm @ 80mph, obviously in 5th gear

[VibeBuyer]

SWEET!Thanks for the help.I will just enjoy the smaller engine, enjoy the gas mileage, and just be happy!I'm looking at two 1.8L, 5 Speed Manual Trans '09 Vibes to buy now! I can't wait!Thanks!

[Whelan]

2005 Matrix XR AWD (even slower than the FWD 1.8) with 123,000 on the clock (miles). I know the new 1.8's were re-tuned to be more powerful to a degree but I can say for a fact that at 70mph I am at about 2600 and at 80 at 3k even.If you think it's bad go buy the most recent gen VW Cabrio with the 2.slow. At 70mph it was at 4 grand on the tach.If your 4th was not working and you were in 3rd at 80, you'd be screaming above 3k. Again, I have a high mileage car with the older 1.8VVT-i, heavier weight, AWD, lower power.

[BLargal]

I have an 09 auto GT with the 2.4 and its about the same, I can work it to be a tad lower but I do have the manual override ability in my car haven't ever used it as of yet. I don't wanna bust anything since i've never shifted a car ever in my life so waiting with my brother to drive with me or something to teach me even if the manual over ride is easier then an actual manual. What i'm trying to learn with the car after driving it a week is trying NOT to blast off from red lights! Living with an old 02 taurus for four years had me put more pressure on the pedal, I tap the darn thing in this car and I jerk off to 10mph in like 0.2 sec lol! I love how people are like "pish a vibe cool car but I can kick your (removed) in my car" little do they know that my car has a LOT more speed then they think it dose!

[VibeBuyer]

Quote, originally posted by tpollauf »Hi there & Welcome to this forum. I'd go with the 2.4L and a manual 5 speed. For REAL mileage numbers, check out my "mpg tune" site at http://www.mpgtune.com/dashboard.php?carId=4740. Myself and others log gas mileage readings and it's posted here and on other sites also. This will give you an idea of what to expect. I love my stick shift (all my cars for the past 35+ years were stick). Also, you may seem to be a "light cargo" individual TODAY, but who is to know the future where you just might be hauling around a bit more stuff & people to where the 2.4L would be the better choice then. Let us know on this forum what you end up getting Great Advice from ALL!I bought a 2009, 1.8L, Manual Trans!41000miles.It is EVERYTHING that you all say that it is! This is a fantastic car! Very fun to drive, smooth, comfortable, peppy! How do they do it with such a small engine? Great Job GM/Toyota. Why would GM NOT have considered a Chevy Version? Maybe they are going to do something with that new Cruze (a 1.4L Turbo Hatchback ECO at 42mpg might be a good idea..... Let's wait and see how those cars work in the marketplace.....)I wish I had bought a Vibe sooner!It was a bummer that I had to buy one in Michigan because there were two others that were much lower miles, for the same price. Yet, I think that I did great because I paid a little less and had it delivered to my home for just a few bucks.My first tank at mostly highway miles (80/20%) was 31 mpg average. I need to be a bit more scientific in going to the same gas station, and the same pump, in order to make it statistically more significant, but it I was pretty happy with it. I will continue to monitor it. Also, I need to get better at driving a manual trans (IS THERE ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO TRULY DRIVE A MANUAL SO THAT I CONSERVE THE CLUTCH, GAS, AND STILL PROVIDE A NICE SMOOTH RIDE FOR PASSENGERS? PLEASE ADVISE!)Will I miss that I didn't buy the 2.4L? Not so far as I can see right now. This thing really runs great. Fantastic passing, even in 5th gear from 70 to 80mph! This is just what I needed.Once I get it figured out with respect to 'driving lessons in a manual' from you cats, I will be ALL SET!Thanks to all for your help!