Towing thoughts - 1.8/2.4 same capacity - Could 2.4L performance be boosted?

[ned23]

Curiously, the 1.8 and the 2.4L are both rated at 1,500 lbs towing plus the weight of 1 driver. The 2.4L drivetrain is also designed for the Camry, which weighs about 500 lbs more than a Vibe and has the same capacity (I believe, SWCIIW). This suggests that the engine and transmission are not the limiting factor(s) in the 2.4L towing capacity. It aso suggests that there may be a way(s) to make changes to a 2.4L model to tweak the towing capacity a bit. What might those be? Transmission cooler is the most obvious tweak. A few others that come to mind are: high-performance aftermarket brakes, beef-up rear suspension, wider tires, and possibly an aftermarket clutch or torque converter if available. I'm not actually considering towing more than 1,500 lbs but the trailers I'm looking at are in the 1200-1400 lb. range, which is pretty close to the envelope. So, I'm just theorizing on what might maximize performance and safety under those conditions. Anyone else have any thoughts on the subject? Right now I'm thinking just to add a transmission cooler and upgrade the front brakes with some higher-performance aftermarket pads from Akebono. http://www.akebonobrakes.com/

[joatmon]

It could be limited by things like the weight of the car, suspension, etc, where towing a heavier load could cause stability issues, or braking inadequacy. I once towed a full size 3/4 ton van with a full size 1/2 ton pickup truck, that thing was difficult to control. Ended up having to replace all the brake rotors in the truck. Might even be a structural thing, tow too heavy too much and you might bend the car. Expensive to upgrade to solve those kinds of things

[djb383]

It's the Vibe's (and most other cars) uni-body construction......thin light metal body vs thick heavy cross member frame. The Vibe's uni-body is the same regardless of which engine.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »It could be limited by things like the weight of the car, suspension, etc, where towing a heavier load could cause stability issues, or braking inadequacy. I once towed a full size 3/4 ton van with a full size 1/2 ton pickup truck, that thing was difficult to control. Ended up having to replace all the brake rotors in the truck. Might even be a structural thing, tow too heavy too much and you might bend the car. Expensive to upgrade to solve those kinds of thingsWell, I'm mostly thinking about safety and maintaning control if you're towing something close to the limit. You never know when some idiot is not going to check his blind spot and cut you of at 55 mph. Brakes are pretty obvious and I think stiffer rear suspension might make the car more stable, as well as a stabilizing kit for trailer. The weight is ultimately going to be limited by the size of the hitch. A class I hitch can pull up to 2000 lbs. and no more.

[kowell]

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »It's the Vibe's (and most other cars) uni-body construction......thin light metal body vs thick heavy cross member frame. The Vibe's uni-body is the same regardless of which engine. Like djn383 said, most limitations probably come from the Corolla frame used in the vibe. The camry's frame is bigger than a corolla's which probably explains why it can tow slightly more (I think). Most mid-size sedans usually have a 2000 lbs towing capacity and compacts have 1500 lbs.

[djkeev]

HI,If you need to tow, get a truck or SUV. The only thing you should really tow with a car is a small utility trailer moving lightweight stuff like a mower, couch, plants or similar items. This isn't for packing up your house and relocating. You will damage your car, possibly an expensive repair, and you might even put yours or others lives in danger for you cannot maneuver or stop should the traffic conditions require you to do so.I would not purchase a 1200 pound trailer for a 1500 pound tow capacity car. A decent refrigerator weighs 2 - 300 pounds easy. What will you move with it? A load of styrofoam?Get a smaller trailer and leave that big one on the lot. Also consider an aluminum or alloy trailer to cut down curb weight and increase the capacity you are able to carry.You have a compact car, think small. Recognize your vehicle for what it is and accept that.Dave

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by djkeev »HI,If you need to tow, get a truck or SUV. You will damage your car, possibly an expensive repair,..First, in terms of cost, I could do an awful lot of repairs on the car for the price of an SUV. I could replace the transmission 10 times. Quote »I would not purchase a 1200 pound trailer for a 1500 pound tow capacity car. A decent refrigerator weighs 2 - 300 pounds easy. What will you move with it? A load of styrofoam? It's a camper. I was planning to travel and camp with it. So, figure 1300 lbs for trailer and addons, add maybe 100 lbs of gear for camping and a passenger and you're around or a little over 1500, plus the driver. with the extra weight being in the car, not the trailer.Quote » You have a compact car, think small. Recognize your vehicle for what it is and accept that.Dave I don't see why one should have to buy an extra vehicle just to enjoy a boat or a camper if they take reasonable precautions and work within limits. The engine and transmission on the 2.4L should be just fine with 1200 lbs. I am a bit concerned with handling and so forth. Nothing ruins a vacation like a wreck.

[Old Tele man]

...solution: pitch a pup-tent on a small, flatbed trailer...should be "light" enough!

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by Old Tele man »...solution: pitch a pup-tent on a small, flatbed trailer...should be "light" enough!LOL.More national parks, like Yellowstone are requiring hard-sided trailers now.

[dragon64]

I'm working on contart for an aftermarket assessory company. We were doing some R&D at a local Toyota dealer that other day and had a look under a Camary. Much of the difference in towing capasity does have to do with the structural and suspension differences between the two chassis. The Camary platform was designed to carry a greater payload that the Matrix/ Corolla platform. Also the manufactures max towing capasity is calculated assuming there only the driver of average weight in the car. Note that the NTSB assumes the average weight of each occupant in the car to be 160lbs in the calculation. To get the true towing capasity you will need to add the weights of all passangers and cargo in the car and subtract this from the maximum trailer weight. In addition to this you will need to calculate the tongue weight of the trailer and add this to weight of the curb weightof the car and the payload inside the car to insure that you do not exceed the gross vehicle weight of the car. Is short depending on number of passengers and cargo in the car your max trailer weight could only be a small fraction of the advertized max weight.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by dragon64 »I'm working on contart for an aftermarket assessory company. We were doing some R&D at a local Toyota dealer that other day and had a look under a Camary. Much of the difference in towing capasity does have to do with the structural and suspension differences between the two chassis. The Camary platform was designed to carry a greater payload that the Matrix/ Corolla platform. Well, I'll work on keeping the weight of the trailer PLUS the occupants & cargo under 1,660 lbs. Do you think beefing up the rear supsension would be any help?

[djb383]

Quote, originally posted by kowell »..........most limitations probably come from the Corolla frame used in the vibe. The camry's frame is bigger than a corolla's which probably explains why it can tow slightly more (I think).........The Corolla, Vibe and Camry do not have a frame - they have uni-body construction. A pick-up or SUV has a full perimeter frame (with cross members) that the body bolts to. The hitch is attached to the thick heavy frame/cross member on a pick-up/SUV and to the thin metal uni-body of the Corolla/Vibe/Camry.

[dragon64]

Quote, originally posted by ned23 »Well, I'll work on keeping the weight of the trailer PLUS the occupants & cargo under 1,660 lbs. Do you think beefing up the rear supsension would be any help? Stiffer rear spring, dampers and larger anti roll bar may help to a certain extent if they even existed comercially but you will have to address the structural weakness of the tailend of the chassis behind the rear wheels which is the reason that only a class 1 hitch is available for the car. I was looking at the data we were working on specifically OE tire sizes for the Martix/ Vibe/ Corolla and Camary. The difference in OE tire load index rating between the Vibe Matrix and a Camary is another part of the load capacity difference. This is due to the Camary having larger diameter tires. These days many insurance company are being hard nosed about exceeding manufactures specs and modifying or changing parts to exceed this specifications. If for example you had a tire blow out or brakes over heat and fail causing an accident they may not pay out a claim. What you do will basically going to be your final decision and what your insurance company will let you get away with in the event of an accident.