Headlight Modification - Lights Always On

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:48 am

So I want to modify my TS sensor, but different than everyone else.I'd like my headlights to fully turn on whenever the ignition is on. I was wondering -- if I just disconnccted the wire harness for the TS sensor and connected the two wires that are in it, would that, in effect, keep the lights always on? Is there a way to wire it so that I don't have to wait 15 seconds, and the lights just kick in as soon as the key turns on?Thanks y'all...

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:21 am

Causing the lights to always come on is easy - just put black tape over the sensor!You're still stuck with the 15 second delay though. No idea why - my Aztek doesn't wait at all to turn the headlights on when it's dark. But then it doesn't suffer from the same system that the Vibe has and doesn't turn the lights on and off all the time like the Vibe.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:58 am

While your solution is ideal -- simple, cheap, and quick -- I was looking for something a bit more involved. I'd prefer to just bypass the TS system entirely so that I could, essentially, rewire the multi-function stalk and permanantly engage the lights, but at the same time, not have them on all the time, but only when the ignition is on...

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:10 am

Yes, I could, and might.But I need to know which wires to go after...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:02 am

My vibe came with this special custom control that allows me to turn the lights on full even in bright daylight. It's mounted on the turn signal lever. I have instructions on how to enable your Vibe to have the same special super secret custom control, just mail me $200 and I'll send them to you.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:05 am

Listen smartass......I want the lights to kick in when the ignition is on. I don't want to turn them on. I want them to BE on. I might wire in a switch so that if I need them to NOT be on for some reason, I can disable that...but the key thing is I want the lights on full when the car is on. Got it?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:05 am

quote:Just follow the wires from the Sentinel right? Just bypass them with a grounding point. I was hoping to bypass the entire sentinel system though, so I don't have any lame delays to deal with...

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:13 am

quote:Gotcha.. Hey, you are better with wiring than I am. hehe.. Go for it.. Which brings us back to the topic at hand...where can I bypass the system...someone with a wiring diagram perhaps? *glances over at Nick and Scott*

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:36 am

I believe that was simply disabling the DRL module. Not at all what I'm interseted in doing. I'm interested in making full headlights my DRLs...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:29 am

Well, better a smartass than a dumbass And I think the hammer head should be going to you for wanting to do this instead of to me for my eloquent piece of satire, but it's all a matter of perspective.Anyway, back on topic.If you disconnect the light sensor, then full headlights never come on automatically, which is not what you want.If you do the mod to cut the wire to the DRL module, you trick it to think the car is not running and there are no DRL or full headlights, which is not what you want.I have a service manual, worth the money. Got it off ebay for ~$80. Anyway, all of the headlight functions are controlled by the DRL module. The manual treats it as a black box, so I can't tell what it does, what's inside. My bet would be that the 15 second delay is a function of the DRL module, not the light sensor. The light sensor has three wires running to it, and all three connect directly to the DRL module. They are not labelled with their function. If it was my car, I'd be reluctant to start jumpering them together or grounding them, no telling what might happen or break. You might be able to trick it by adding a relay between the headlight control on the turn signal and the DLR module. The two DRL wires to work with would be pin 5, RED, headlamp signal, and pin 13, GRN/WHT, Park Lamps Signal. I'll refer to them by pin #. When the headlight switch is in parking lights, there is no signal to pin 5, but a ground is connected to pin 13. When the headlight switch is in headlight mode, ground is connected to both pin 5 and pin 13. If you got a relay that had two sets of contacts, you could use the ignition signal (yellow wire to DRL module) to close the relay, and ground pins 5 and 13 on the DRL module. That would simulate turning on the headlights as soon as the engine was running, which would ignore the light sensor. You wouldn't want to just ground pins 5 and 13 all the time, that would be the same as using the existing control on the turn signal to leave your headlights on all the time, except that you couldn't turn them off.The relay you would want would be a 12V, double pole double throw. That means that it takes 12V to make is switch, double pole double throw means that there are two independent sets of contacts, and each set consists of a common and two possible inputs. You could wire the existing wires for pins 5 and 13 to the inputs that are normally connected when there is no 12V, so that the system would function normally, and then connect a ground to the other set of inputs that are switched in when 12V is present. Connect ground and the ignition switch to the coil, and when the engine is running, the DRL module pins will be grounded and the headlights will be on with no delay. When the engine is off, the normal headlight switch will control the headlights. This is entirely theoretical at this time. I do not want this mod on my car, and will not prototype it or test it to see if it will work. It should work, but there is ABLSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEE.In the meantime, you might want to just go with Jethro's suggestion of the taped over sensor and put up with the 15 second delay.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:34 am

If I could just test it all without cutting wires...Though I was hoping to avoid cutting any wires at all...but I don't think that's realistic (aside from taping over the sensor )...

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:36 am

quote:You're still stuck with the 15 second delay though. No idea why - my Aztek doesn't wait at all to turn the headlights on when it's dark.This has been answered before. It's because the system in the Vibe is designed by Toyota. The system in the Aztek (and other GM cars) is designed by GM. They are 2 totally different systems.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:39 am

And my preference lies with the GM system...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:43 am

quote:If I could just test it all without cutting wires...I know what you mean, I hate cutting into the harnesses. That's why I haven't done the DRL disable mod yet. I wish I had a set of mating DRL connectors, then it would be easy to make things to modify the DRL module inputs, and you could just plug it inline with the DRL module or take it out to return it to stock. But, I don't know where to get the connectors, and haven't really needed to find them .

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:48 am

Think something exists that can be ordered from GM/Toyota?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:06 am

Probably, but it might be too expensive, or you might not be able to find a toyota or GM parts department that could confirm what you want and actually get it.The service manual says that the cable end connector, the one that plugs into the DRL is part number 90980-12034. Doesn't list the mating connector, it's built into the DRL module, and may not exist as a cable type connector. Hard to know, For other connectors, where they list both of the mating pair, the mate is the same part number +/- 1, so perhaps there is a mating connector 90980-12033 or 90980-12035

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:12 am

Is that a Toyota or GM part #?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:27 am

That's the part number out of the GM Vibe manual, so it should be a GM part number. Probably a toyota part, but don't know how to identify the Toyota part number. We need a NUMMI insider.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:39 am

quote:We need a NUMMI insider.Agreed.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:44 am

quote:For other connectors, where they list both of the mating pair, the mate is the same part number +/- 1That's true for a lot of them, but found a couple where that's not true,, like 11596 mates with 11527, so can;t be sure what the mating connector would be if it does exist.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:50 am

this is rapidly becoming an unconquerable project to me...

fire_502 · Post by **fire_502** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:32 pm

Hmm, I know it's none of my business, but why do you want to do this? It seems like my lights kick on to full power 85% of the time anyway, but I don't see the 15% of non-full power really being an issue. Besides, like joatman said, you can turn them on whenever you want to. Have you had some bad experience with not having the lights on full at some point? Are you just tired of them clicking up and down with the clouds? Just wondering...

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:14 pm

Since the day I got my license, I always drive with all lights full power -- head, fog, tail. I just prefer to have them on at all times. Plus, it would be easier to turn the car on, they're on, turn the car off, they're off, and not have to wait 20 seconds to move the car before they auto kick in (because that kinda absurd delay renders the concept POINTLESS!!!)

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:37 am

quote:You're still stuck with the 15 second delay though. No idea why - my Aztek doesn't wait at all to turn the headlights on when it's dark.quote:This has been answered before. It's because the system in the Vibe is designed by Toyota. The system in the Aztek (and other GM cars) is designed by GM. They are 2 totally different systems.Sorry Scott, I mis-spoke. I'm well aware that one system is Toyota and the other GM. What I don't understand is why the Toyota engineers deemed this 15 second delay as necessary.Maybe it's because they feel the battery is somewhat under-rated (as some of our members have found out) and did this to reduce the intial current drain on the battery.

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:40 am

quote:Since the day I got my license, I always drive with all lights full power -- head, fog, tail. I just prefer to have them on at all times. Plus, it would be easier to turn the car on, they're on, turn the car off, they're off, and not have to wait 20 seconds to move the car before they auto kick in (because that kinda absurd delay renders the concept POINTLESS!!!)Ahh, I thought you were looking at this for some other unknown modification reason. In this case I wouldn't dare rip into the wiring harness and risk warranty trouble later. Just get into the habit of manually turn the knob on the stalk and turning your headlights on everytime just the same as you manually put your seatbelts on every time you move your car!

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:51 am

Why not only adding a relay with the light switch on the turn signal lever. Use the accessory 12v to drive the relay and keep the light on.They will turn on when the car is working. But you won't be able to turn on your light without the ignition at ACC or ONI used this way on my other car when I added fogs light to avoid some battery drain out.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:24 am

Good idea, but I would still like to maintain functionaility of the stalk switch in case, for SOME reason, I need the lights on when the car is off.But this all may be null if I can't find a mating adapter for the DRL harness...I do NOT want to cut any wires...at least not without know what it would cost to undo it (and I suspect it would be a SUBSTANTIAL cost to replace that harness)

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:54 am

quote:But this all may be null if I can't find a mating adapter for the DRL harness...I do NOT want to cut any wires...at least not without know what it would cost to undo it (and I suspect it would be a SUBSTANTIAL cost to replace that harness)For sure to do you will have to cut at least 1 wire and split another one.If you cut them properly, and let you some play (at least 2" from the harness0 you will be able to reconnect them.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:14 am

But they don't leave much, if any, slack in these wires at the factory...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:20 am

I don't know how the DRL module works, but it might turn on the rear running lights when just the headlight signal is ground, even if the park light signal is not. THe schematics show that the headlight signal also runs to the keyless entry circuit. I don't have the power package, but I'm guessing that when you use the remote to lock/unlock the car, the headlights flash. Do the tail lights flash also? If so, then you might be able to get away with just tapping into the headlight signal wire and the ignition on wire, without cutting them open. Looks like the headlight signal is either ground or open, so grounding it won't break anything There's probably some sort of crimp on tap you could use to tie in to the wires without cutting them. You want to make sure that the rear running lights come on, or you'll get rear-ended for sure.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:23 am

When you use remote keyless, the parking lights flash all around...no heads or tails...And honestly, I'm so confused by what you just said.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:08 am

It might work if your mod only provide a ground on DRL module pin 5, RED, Headlamp signal. I am sure someone makes a device that you crimp onto a wire, and it has a sharp prong that pushes throught he insulation and makes contact with the conductor, allowing you to tie in an additional wire without cutting the original one. You could use these things to crimp an extra wire onto the Ignition signal (the one people ground to disable DRLs) and use that to be the control signal for a relay. Use another to tie an extra wire into the Headlamp signal (DRL pin 5 red) and a thrid to a ground somewhere. Still need a relay, but a simpler one, a single pole single throw, No actual wires to cut, fewer wires to mess with than I said before.Again speculation. In the interim, have you taped over the sensor?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:46 am

This idea sounds more realistic!I'll have to look into this one...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:09 am

Before you start, one way to test it would be to use something like a pin to reach into the connector at the DRL and contact the red wire, then use a piece of wire to ground that somewhere, and see if you get both full headlights and rear running lights. I'd do it, but I'm no contortionist, and it's a pain for me to reach up under the dash. I hate where the fusebox is.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:44 am

Yeah, I think if I tackle this, I will need someone to scan and post instructions on removing the upper and/or lower dash components...*hint hint to those with service manuals*

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:09 am

A ready source of dash removal instructions would be vibeowner's web pagehttp://vibeowner.home.comcast.net

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:47 am

Yesh, I forgot all about that! Thanks joatmon!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:52 am

I don't have the courage to remove the whole dash. Would disable the car till you got it all back together. I'd sooner pull the drivers seat to make it easier to work up from the bottom, or just suffer on the door sill. Still, you'll learn a lot about how it's put together if you pull the whole dash.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:53 am

Yeah, I'll save it as a weekend project or perhaps, the next meet...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:15 am

I called a Pontiac dealer, and apparently the part numbers that are listed in the service manual for each electrical connector are not GM or pontiac part numbers. Don't know why they bothered to list them then. The parts guy tried to look it up by the DRL module, and asked me if I had the yellow or purple banded DRL module, apparently there are two different DRL modules fo Vibes in the GM inventory. Hmmm, wonder what the difference is... Other interesting thing is that the parts guy asked me about the vibe. So far every GM/pontiac parts person I have talked to about vibe parts has asked me about them, thinking of buying one for themselves. Anyway, he was unable to find a listing for the connectors, so coming up with a plug in inline deal is probably not likely.