Supercharger has better warranty than turbo, but not a better guarranty on your motor

[Faultline]

Turbos are known for the heat they create, but what is not realized, is that the most heat is made on the tubine side -exhaust- of the turbo.The compressor side-air- heats up too,but this is mostly from compressing the air, not a transfer from the exhaust side to the air side as oil runs between the 2 sides and insulates some of the heat. this air heating up is not good for the motor, and would make mor power if the air is cooler , and cause less thermal stress on the motor. Turbos are said to be around 85% efficiect ,even after the IC cools it,meaning that if they were 100%, the air temp would be the same as it was before it went in the compressor. Roots style blowers are said to be around 50% efficient....that is how much the air heats up!...so at 7.5 psi, my turbo is cramming cooler air into my motor than a roots SC would...and since Pontiac/TRD is willing to warranty the latter for 3yrs, I believe our motors can take this stress!2).My turbo is running full boost at usually 3500rpms..this is better for the motor than at 2000rpms...as the motor is able to better deal w/ all the CFM and psi at higher rpms...the poorer thing I can do with my turbo set up, is to be running in 5th gear at about 2000rpms at 70mph, and mash the gas there...( it will spool up there) that is how this like cranks twist.. it is better to down shift to 4th or better 3rd and jump up to 4500rpms, and then mash the gas ...the motor can handle this better..and the acceleration is better anyway....now the SC has full psi at below 2krpms, and i am not saying it will twist anything,especially in lower gears..but I am saying it is more stress than my later spooling turbo...and this is why the SC may have a better warranty than a turbo, but not a better guarranty on your motor"! and why I had the confidence to turbo my vibe...and I know that there are other isuues about corect a/f ratios and detonation, but I am speaking as if all those things being =

[Larry]

http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=19 In general, superchargers enjoy a substantial reliability advantage over the turbocharger. When a a turbo is shut off (i.e. when the engine is turned off), residual oil inside the turbo's bearings can be baked by stored engine heat. This, combined with the turbo's extremely high rpms (up to 150,000rpm) can cause problems with the turbo's internal bearings and can shorten the life of the turbocharger. In addition, many turbos require aftermarket exhaust manifolds, which are often far less reliable than stock manifolds.

[goodvibe]

More boost at lower rpm also means no waiting and a more even power delivery. This SC has significantly less peak power but this all adds up to more reliability. By adding the boost where the motor makes less power your not stressing the internals any more than stock until you reach higher rpm and make more power than peak stock numbers. The heat here is not a reliability problem (It's nothing compared to combustion)but limits power due to air expansion. . An intercooler would be a great upgrade for any FI system that doesn't have one..

[Faultline]

quote: http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=19 In general, superchargers enjoy a substantial reliability advantage over the turbocharger. When a a turbo is shut off (i.e. when the engine is turned off), residual oil inside the turbo's bearings can be baked by stored engine heat. This, combined with the turbo's extremely high rpms (up to 150,000rpm) can cause problems with the turbo's internal bearings and can shorten the life of the turbocharger. In addition, many turbos require aftermarket exhaust manifolds, which are often far less reliable than stock manifolds.good points larry, for some reason I did not buy a turbo timer yet, but i do let the motor idle down to cool it off...It depends on how much I have mashed the gas, to how long I need to idle....but this is the reliablility of the turbo not the car motor....It only cost a few hundred $ to rebuild a turbo

[Faultline]

quote: By adding the boost where the motor makes less power your not stressing the internals any more than stock until you reach higher rpm hmmm......this is not what I believe.....we need a 3rd opinion...

[Larry]

I'm not an expert but I would have to say the turbo is harder on your engine. The SC delivers the boost in a consistent and linear fashion. The turbo has to spool up first and then there is a sudden surge of power and stress is placed on the drivetrain. I think of it as the SC throwing a lot of jabs to get the job done and the turbo is more of a knockout puncher. Both are pretty reliable at low to medium boost though as long as the air/fuel mixture is okay. Here's what TRD has to say about their SC:All TRD superchargers are installed and tested to ensure the durability of the supercharger system and the engine families on which they are used. Lengthy full-throttle dynamometer test sessions are conducted on supercharged engines which are then disassembled and inspected for any sign of accelerated wear. Likewise, supercharger-equipped vehicles are run through closed-course proving ground test sessions designed to simulate thousands of miles of severe use to ensure that powertrain along with engine durability is not diminished.

[MadBill]

A few points:1. Cylinder pressure is highest at or near peak torque, with or without boost.2. Inertia forces are greatest at max RPM.3. For the same net HP, a SC engine sees higher cylinder pressures, more torque on the crank, etc., because the 8-10 HP to spin the (Vibe)supercharger comes from the crank, not otherwise-wasted exhaust energy.4. For what it's worth, over the last 40-odd years GM has offered 7* factory-installed Turbo engines and only one supercharged one.* 10 points to the first person to name them all.

[goodvibe]

I can't disagree and if these 2 motors were making the similar peak power I would agree with Faultline in theory but he's making enough more to throw out a straight comparison. Coking is another issue with turbos without water jackets and timers. I guess it come down to application.

[NovaResource]

quote:For what it's worth, over the last 40-odd years GM has offered 7* factory-installed Turbo engines and only one supercharged one.I assume you are excluding turbo diesel engines.quote:* 10 points to the first person to name them all.Supercharged: - 3.8L Buick V6 (Pontiac GTP, Buick GS)Turbo: - 1.0L Suzuki 3-cyl (Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly) - 2.0L Pontiac 4-cyl (Pontiac Turbo Sunbird) - 2.7L Chevy flat-4 (164-ci Chevy Corvair Corsa) - 3.5L Oldsmobile V8 (215-ci Oldsmobile Jetfire) - 3.8L Buick V6 (Buick GN, 1989 Pontiac Trans Am GTA) - 4.3L Chevy V6 (GMC Syclone, Typhoon) - 4.9L Pontiac V8 (Turbo Trans Am)

[rasermon]

quote:Turbo: - 4.3L Chevy V6 (GMC Syclone, Typhoon) From a standing start the deceptive-looking Syclone will embarrass most cars. The GMC Syclone is the quickest accelerating Pick-Up Truck ever made. Damn, I still would like to have one.

[MadBill]

Excellent, Nova! This entitles you to a donut and coffee or nachos and adult beverage of your choice if we ever meet! quote:...I assume you are excluding turbo diesel engines....Yes, I was thinking cars only, and since they were doing turbos before GM took over, I also excluded Saab.

[mkosem]

Quote, originally posted by rasermon »quote:Turbo: - 4.3L Chevy V6 (GMC Syclone, Typhoon) From a standing start the deceptive-looking Syclone will embarrass most cars. The GMC Syclone is the quickest accelerating Pick-Up Truck ever made. Damn, I still would like to have one. Actually, according to the guiness book of world records the ford lightning is/was the fastest accelerating pick up truck ever made.--Matt

[threekrows]

3.1 v-6 early 90's grand prix,turbo from factory,only worked on 2.Had a lot of the engine parts painted red.

[satur9]

damn, nova you rule! hey faultline couple questions for you. do you have that openloop chip on you car. its a module that supposeddly lets the car run open loop all the time. (i'd love to here some opinions on this one... nova,madbill etc) what is the manifold made of.and how loud is your bov is thier provision for recirc.(i heard if you recirc it to right next to the air filter you can still hear it plus the car runs better) i email stafford but APPARENTLY it takes a while for him to answer. EDITalso you mention about full boost at 3500 being better than 2000 but most oem turbo cars bhave very small turbos so the spool faster build boost sooner and not have such a sudden kick. i would like that kind of turbo. power enterprises has one for the mr2 that spools at 1300 and full boost by2500 very cool even though peak power is limited.i ask all this in my email to stafford hope i get a reply. (and yes im like the one person asking for less power go figure)

[Faultline]

Quote, originally posted by satur9 »damn, nova you rule! hey faultline couple questions for you. do you have that openloop chip on you car. its a module that supposeddly lets the car run open loop all the time. (i'd love to here some opinions on this one... nova,madbill etc) what is the manifold made of.and how loud is your bov is thier provision for recirc.(i heard if you recirc it to right next to the air filter you can still hear it plus the car runs better) i email stafford but APPARENTLY it takes a while for him to answer. EDITalso you mention about full boost at 3500 being better than 2000 but most oem turbo cars bhave very small turbos so the spool faster build boost sooner and not have such a sudden kick. i would like that kind of turbo. power enterprises has one for the mr2 that spools at 1300 and full boost by2500 very cool even though peak power is limited.i ask all this in my email to stafford hope i get a reply. (and yes im like the one person asking for less power go figure)when I started this project , turbo city said that for a 1.8 motr, I should get a t2 turbo...they run up to 7psi usually...and flaten out ournd or befor 6k on the revs, but spool up befor 2k..,they flatten out becuse they have to spin at a higher rpm, and then can only produce so much cfm....they get hotter and wear out easier for all their extra work...BUT...I have not drivn one, and I think they would be great!...I think It would be desirabel to go into Open loop earlier for this kind of thing...which I dont do this ...YET...I am getting some upgrades from stafford early next year..Just as you drive now, most of your powere comes on after 4k....thats why I like the later spool, and I can also drive the car gently as if I had no turbo....but it is nowhere near as difficult to stay in boost , as it is for 2zz guys to stay in lift. My exhaust manifold is mild steel , tubular, but very thcik 200/ 1000's wall thickness on the tubes , and a 1/2" flange...very beefy.The Bov seems louder to everyone outside my car, than to me inside my car...people alway comment on it when I drive up...and yeah I hear it just fine.....Bov is befor the mas along the Ic piping , befor the Mas which is blown thru , right befor the throttle body...It does not effect the A/f calibration in my particular set up.Stafford's fuel kit uses the same principals as an FMU..It also has a fuel pump to supply ample fuel...It only comes into play during boost...It ups fuel pressure during boost , and sneaks in a lot more fuel w/o changing the injector pulse wdth...that is how I have stock injectors...the trck is in the calibration, and making sure the amousnt are correct...it is all intake manifold referenced..if it is 6psi or 9 psi..the calibration is made correct...It all works with the car ecu..when manifold pressure is vacuum , the ecu runs the fuel as always...when it is at 7psi..., the ecu can read the air, and responds, but w/o Stafford setup, it cant suppyy enough fuel...so the kit snsures it...but mechanicly,not electronicly...it works with the ecu, not aginst it, nor changes it... .the big trick is that it does not require a return fuel linehope this helps