Just ordered a Vibe - concerned about paint issues ...

[tots]

Hi -I've seen a number of posting regarding paint problems (easy chipping, rub-off, scratches,etc.). Now I'm getting cold feet - haveany improvement been made with the '04s? Also, are most the issueswith painted cladding or is this a common problem with the entire finish?Thanks.

[Vibe Rater]

This involves the entire finish. Matter of fact, the painted cladding is holding up surprisingly well, considering the condition of the rest of the paint. The front end of course is the worst, but chips and scratches can appear anywhere on the vehicle. I have no idea if NUMMI has addressed this serious issue with the 2004's or not. One would hope so, but that's not guaranteed. As long as you don't drive the car, or wash it or touch the paint, it should be fine. What color did you order?

[joatmon]

Welcome to genvibe, and another merliner too! I haven't had any problems with my paint but others have. I have been extrememly lucky with no scratches or dings yet (hope I didn't just jinx my vibe) Seems like it's mostly a problem for them up front, where you'd expect to take the most abuse from stones and such, but some have had issues with the paint all over the car, so it's not just limited to the nose. Problems with the cladding that have been reported here are for the two tone cladding, not the painted monotone.Some users have gotten car bras to to protect the front end, but I haven't, don't care for the look of them. Others recommend putting multiple coats of good wax on right away to give it extra protection. That's probably a good idea even if there were no reported paint problems.I don't know if the 04's have been out long enough for anyone to experience significant paint problems yet. What color/options did you order?

[tots]

I've ordered a base Salsa two - tone (power, protection group, alloy wheels, cargo box), but have until tomorrow to make any changes. I am going to make an inquiry with the dealer regarding this issue. This may be a dumb question, but will paint selants offered by the dealer help at all?

[cohocarl]

quote:will paint selants offered by the dealer help at all?The only thing that will help is the dealer's wallet. I really haven't had any paint issues other than the strips on the doors where other people have opened up their doors and hit it. I believe I remember hearing at the Michigan meet that the strips are actually too soft, which rips the paint when it pushes in. I think he said they were going to re-design them to be harder, but not positive. I seem to receive alot of stones whacking the windshield, but it's a rather large target compared to my last car.I wouldn't let the paint issues hold you back on the order.

[msmyer]

First off, Welcome to GenVibe.....Next, ask the boy in the bubble if you can borrow it for your "new" car, that's the only way you'll keep it nice!

[joatmon]

quote:Next, ask the boy in the bubble if you can borrow it for your "new" car, that's the only way you'll keep it nice!True, the only way to keep any car looking new is to put it somewhere safe and never even look at it. Some of the paint problem threads here make the paint seem completely worthless, and some here think that is accurate, but mine's ok. No worse than any other car I've had. Definitely glad I bought a Vibe, it's a lot of fun to drive.

[ragingfish]

Jeff Strausser, Vibe Brand Quality Manager, is very well aware of our problems with the paint. He last told me he and his team are going to investigate every aspect of the problem -- application, product formula, processes, etc. -- to see if there was something they could do to remedy this problem. I have not heard either way if they made any success regarding improvements, but I haven't spoken to Jeff in several weeks. Perhaps Nick has heard something?In any case, I would put my money on them NOT having changed anything yet...Unfortunately, it's not only the Vibe. GM, from what I know, is notorious for sub-par paint durability. My Bonneville, Grand Am, and Sunfire all had weak paint durability...Hindsight is 20/20. Knowing this info, would I buy another Vibe? Absolutely not. I'd buy a Vibe GT next time! Hehehehe. But yeah, I would also pay to have a seriously thick heavy coat of wax put on before the car drove out of the dealer. And I would do whatever it takes to maintain that protection throughout the life of the car...Also, many users on here seem to find that hood deflectors have done significantly well in protecting paint from bugs and rocks...

[tots]

Thanks very much for the feedback. Is there any way to contact Jeff? Based on the comments and the fact that I've owned Pontiacs for the past 15 years (an '88 GA and '97 GP) with no issues with the finish, I'll probably go ahead with the order. I'm very glad this forum is getting attention from the maufacturer, I hope they act upon it.One point of confusion - I have seen the threads regarding issues with the '03 cladding, that would make me want to go for monotone. On the other hand the Edmunds forum seems to have a number of entires about poor durability of the painted cladding. Is the cladding actually painted (making it painted plastic) or is it replaced with painted sheet metal?

[ragingfish]

quote:Thanks very much for the feedback. Is there any way to contact Jeff? Not directly. Jeff uses Nick Simkins as his main point of contact with us. If you have something you'd like to ask him, contact NSimkins who will try to help you with that...quote:Based on the comments and the fact that I've owned Pontiacs for the past 15 years (an '88 GA and '97 GP) with no issues with the finish, I'll probably go ahead with the order. I'm very glad this forum is getting attention from the maufacturer, I hope they act upon it.As someone previously stated, I do have a love for the "tin indians." I've owned nothing but Pontiacs my whole life, and I don't see myself trading to another brand any time soon. But yes, much results from this forum. While we haven't been told that any changes were a direct result of us, many of the concerns we raised on this forum were addressed on the 2004 model. For example, extended lower rocker panels, easier to read gauges, XM radio...quote:One point of confusion - I have seen the threads regarding issues with the '03 cladding, that would make me want to go for monotone. On the other hand the Edmunds forum seems to have a number of entires about poor durability of the painted cladding. Is the cladding actually painted (making it painted plastic) or is it replaced with painted sheet metal?AFAIK (I have two tone), it is painted plastic. But from what I've seen, it holds up relatively well. Might want to consider a small investment in the mudflaps though...rumor is they do help out a lot!

[micheles_bad_vibe]

x

[joatmon]

quote:One point of confusion - I have seen the threads regarding issues with the '03 cladding, that would make me want to go for monotone. On the other hand the Edmunds forum seems to have a number of entires about poor durability of the painted cladding. Is the cladding actually painted (making it painted plastic) or is it replaced with painted sheet metal?I think the Pontiac solution to problems people have had with the unpainted cladding on 2003 two-tone vibes is to replace it with 2004 cladding. I take this to mean that they have corrected quality problems with 2003 two-tone's cladding, and the 2004 cladding should be better.All Vibe cladding, two-tone type or painted, is still plastic.

[jake75]

But why would Toyota made Vibes have the same paint problems that GM is infamous for?

[ragingfish]

Toyota did not entirely make the Vibe. They made most of the mechanical systems...GM did the design, and most of the interior stuff. I believe GM also played a role in designing the manufacturing line for the Vibe @ NUMMI...The Matrix is made at a Toyota plant in Canada -- the Vibe at NUMMI in California -- so there is why the Toyota finish may differ in durability from the Pontiac one...

[ragingfish]

Actually, a lot of the interior is, in fact, GM...I read that somewhere...

[ragingfish]

Oh, manufacturing I don't know. I was talking design.

[geezer]

If mine is representative of all Matrices, then the Toyota paint is no better than the Vibes. My XRS is only 5 months old and the front end looks like it's been through a war zone -- paint chips everywhere and several dents as well. I've owned well over 25 cars and trucks and this is by far the worst paint I've ever had on a vehicle before. The only one that comes close was my '99 Z28 but even it didn't chip this easily. My '01 Chevrolet ZR2 pickup was also prone to paint chipping. Based on these last 3 vehicles I've owned, I'd say paint finishes are getting worse every year. I didn't have this kind of problems with paint 20 years ago. I wax the car every 2 to 4 weeks so that process hasn't helped either.

[ragingfish]

I am led to believe that paint 10 and 20 years ago had more "additives" to it, mainly, lead, that helped give it durability. With the advent of more stringent regulations on what paint could and could not contain, those "additives" got removed, thus leaving the paint significantly less durable...

[Lancer]

I believe that technology in the paint industry has improved from 10-20 years ago. I feel that GM has used cheaper methods to save money and to make our cars looking more affordable.

[tots]

So this sounds like an industry wide issue - not unique to the Vibe. Also it seems like responses have been all over the map on this and other threads. Some folks report little / no problems, while others seem to have numerous issues with paint durability. I've decided to have splash guards and hood shield installed to try and minimize chipping.

[macrosonic]

Don't forget that the varying results that people are having could be from whether they often drive on freeways or the slower back-roads. I have a bunch of paint chips (and some windshield chips) on my honda because I drive the freeway everyday at 80mph with lots of truck traffic that kicks up stones. Other people drive only city streets going 45mph and don't have debris hurled at them nearly as much.

[Sue]

I own an 2003"ENVY" Green Vibe-since august 2002. They discontinued the color in Sept 2002-This concerned me, as I was having problems with the front end paint-(wipe a bug off too hard and the paint came with it) But at my Dealership "Don Allen Automotive" of Pittsburgh, has a WONDERFUL Air Brush Guy on site, named Roy. He mixed the 8 unique colors to match my car. Before Winter he claims if I get like 5 Clear Coats on the front, I shouldn't have any problems. And the cost is minimal $75.-Now if I can get the Dealer/or Pontiac to reimburse me I will be a Happy Camper. I LOVE my car, wash it like 3 times a week. I haven't seen another one yet with my Color. And Thats Just Fine With ME!!!

[joatmon]

It's great that you had a dealer acknowledege and correct the problem. Not many other people have had that problems, or at least that bad, althought there was some discussion in http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=4665Still, you found a professional who will give your car 5 coats of clearcoat for only $75? That sounds outrageously low to me. You better take them up on that offer before they change their mind! For $15 per coat, I'd take a bunch and be happy paying out of pocket for it.Welcome to genvibe, Is your Envy monotone or two tone? Somebody here was looking for a good picture of a montone Envy Vibe.

[ragingfish]

I'd just push for the extra 6th coat and make it a nice even $90!!!

[ragingfish]

Oh, I reread, he said "on the front." Still, that's the area with the majority of chipping...I still say go for it! But see what they'd offer for the whole car...might as well do it right the first time!

[joatmon]

quote:It was just the bottom portion of the bumper I believe, not the entire car.Ok. If it was really $15 per coat, I'd be planning a road trip to Pittsburgh (even though the steelers kicked the crap out of the ravens today)

[AKLGT]

while washing and waxing my vibe today, i noticed i had 2 rock chips on the top of the car. they are pretty deep and looks like they are starting to rust a little. not real happy about that. shouldn't be doing that, especially so soon!

[macrosonic]

OK... this may be a dumb question, but what exactly is Clear Coat anyway. I've always assumed it was some sort of colorless protective chemical that gets sprayed on top of the color paint coat. If someone gets 5 extra layers of clear coat on just the front part of the car would it look noticeably different than the rest of the car? Does it add to the shine of the paint? Does it add thickness to the paint? Does the clear coat wear off after years of driving/washing the car? Will it make my hair more manageable with a luxurious silky shine? Just curious ....

[AKLGT]

quote:OK... this may be a dumb question, but what exactly is Clear Coat anyway. I've always assumed it was some sort of colorless protective chemical that gets sprayed on top of the color paint coat. If someone gets 5 extra layers of clear coat on just the front part of the car would it look noticeably different than the rest of the car? Does it add to the shine of the paint? Does it add thickness to the paint? Does the clear coat wear off after years of driving/washing the car? Will it make my hair more manageable with a luxurious silky shine? Just curious ....yes to almost all of those, with the exception of leaving your hair that beautiful shine. the clear is what gives your paint that nice shiny look. it will eventually wear over time, but a good clear coat with hardener will hold up for years. you can always get it clear coated again later.... as we are currently discussing.

[tinder]

You can always try 3M Paint Protection Film. http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-168/czrRFFU/view.jhtmlI was looking at it for my celica before I sold it. (If you want to talk about a rock magnet, that would be it) It's a clear urethane based plastic film that's applied like car window tint. Just apply a layer to the most vulnerable spots like bumpers, front hood and side skirts. I would assume they would work wonders over the painted plastic cladding areas as well.I think they have a kit for the Vibe available at http://www.invinca-shield.com/asp/genki ... personally, i'd get it professionally done. If it's anything like window tint, a bad job will probably make things worse

[tots]

Interesting product - never heard of it, thanks for the link. You've given me something to think about - splash guards and deflector vs. the 3M product (or all of the above?).

[Vibe Rater]

THIS is what will happen to that 3M product after it is on for a few years. It is useless against anything other than bugs and dust. To me it is overpriced and of little value.

[Sue]

WOW**You guys are tuff!!! But as a true Steeler Fan-and a "Older" Woman-I guess I can take it!!!

[Larry]

I recommend you use a clear-bra product such as chipguard. http://www.chipguard.comI had it installed the first week I bought the car and am still chip free 9 months later.

[tots]

Thanks for the link. Have you used this product before? I was impressed with the 3M product until I saw the photo of how it discolored over time. Does it scratch and can it be removed once applied? Also, did you apply it your self or have it done?

[tots]

Geez - thanks for the photo - this sure contradicts 3M's claim thatthe product wont discolor over time.

[Larry]

quote:Thanks for the link. Have you used this product before? I was impressed with the 3M product until I saw the photo of how it discolored over time. Does it scratch and can it be removed once applied? Also, did you apply it your self or have it done?You have to wax it as you would your paint to protect it. I had mine professionally installed. It came with a 7 year warranty against discoloring or cracking. It does not scratch the paint and it can be removed.

[champcaracing]

welcome to the site, as for paint problems, just the normal stone chips on my matrix, have found chips in the strangest place though. side of car, top roof area, places i didn't think would get chipped. but all in all great finish on mine. thanks toyota canada for the finish. (place born cambrigde ontario)