Gas aditives for winter

[Digger]

On november 1 I filled up my tank and only got 23 MPG. And every tank since then is about the same. Now, every tank I got before november 1 I got 26-29 mpg. I did change the intake ( short ram and H Power Tower) but the lower MPG started the tank before I installed the new intake. My ? is this. Could the anti-freeze addatives to the gas cause this. I think it is strange it started at the begining of a month.

[DavidPIL]

Hi Digger,It's very normal for gas mileage to go down in the Winter. A few threads have talked about it here, I believe. From what I gather, there is a different formulation for fuel in Winter Months. Also, consider that if it's colder, the oil is a bit thicker on start-up so the engine may not be up to full efficiency from the start. Also, you warm up the car any before you drive off? I know you said it happened at the turn of the month but all these factors add up. The air intake could also have dropped the mileage a little. That should be less of a problem in warmer weather though.I usually get anywhere from 120-155 miles before the quarter and 210-250 to the half. Right now I'm almost to the half with about 145 miles and had around 80 at the quarter and I've changed nothing (oh, except I usually get Marathon gas but switched to Mobil for the last 2 fill-ups, cuz it was cheaper). DaveP.S. I try to combat some of the factors by using an engine block heater when the high temps for the day don't get above freezing. Usually helps some.

[binary]

The engine stays in it's Open Loop mode a lot longer because of the lower temps. In this mode, the car's computer controls the engine based on a set programing model - not using some of the sensors that are useless at low temps. In this mode the engine uses more fuel - kind of like running an old carborated car with the choke on. It's just the way it has to be until the engine gets warm and the computer can trust the readings of the sensors.As soon as the engine warms up - the computer transitions to closed loop mode. This is where it adjusts all the engine parameters based on input from the sensors like the O2, intake temp, coolant temp, etc.Now, to get your car to closed loop mode faster - DRIVE IT. Going out and "warming up" your car, doesn't help while it's just sitting. It's not under load, it's sitting in open loop mode, and it's not going to heat up any quicker. And you're just burning off fuel - 0 MPH = 0 MPGWhile you drive - you're putting your engine under load, this increases the amount of heat it generates. You also get some milage for your fuel.Obviously, when you first start your car on a day that is so cold that your testicles invert into your torso, even though you're wearing enough layers to make an onion proud - wait a few moments for oil to get circulating before driving... but after that - drive!A block heater will give you a slight advantage, but calculate your energy consumption ($ / KWh) compared to the price you're paying in fuel. For most areas where the weather doesn't drop below the effective coolant freeze protection temp - you may be spending more in electricity that saving in fuel.I'm not sure how a CAI would affect this - considering the throttle body spacer is heated with the engine coolant, I don't know how much of a difference the intake makes. I'm interested in anyone's numbers - especially in the winter time.However, I'm guilty of warming up the car. But, I knew that it was going to trash my MPG. Even after 10 minutes, I was just starting to get heat. Now, this morning, I had heat after 3 minutes of driving...In addition to your choices, you have winter blend fuel.Chalk up another 1-3% (or 5-10% depending on who's account you trust) milage loss for "winter-blend" fuels that contain more ethanol. It has a few bonuses - it prevents fuel line freeze, displaces water, and provides a little demand on grain from local farmers. (we should see a discount on our fuel in the winter because of the dilution - but we don't)Some negatives that you'll see are a drop in milage, more emissions, and subject to vapor lock on some fuel systems when you get a sudden weather change to hot temps.The antifreeze additives you're pouring in your tank are just more ethanol... adding to the dilution of your fuel tank. Check the pump next time you fill up. We have square yellow stickers on the pumps that have blended fuel ("Up to 10% Ethanol..."). You could save some money if your fuel already contains it.

[Petrucci914]

120 miles before the quarter? Holy crap! I get like 50 before the quarter, then like 150 at the half, 240 at 3/4, and then 300 or so on full...... it's crazy. When I got the car in october I got like 31mpg and that kept going down from 29, to 27, and now to 25/24....... the 0 degree mornings really kick the engines (removed).

[Atomb]

i always considered the block heater a way of not doing damage to the engine...not a fuel saver. Isn't that the real benefit of a block heater? Having oil flow when you first start up the car in the frigid cold?

[hhsgiant]

Hey new to the forums but my 2003 Vibe just got 37 mpg. i just installed one of the cold air intake chips and put 5 gal of unleaded in and i went 185 miles on just that and im in NC hasnt gotten that cold yet.

[binary]

The block heater keeps the coolant warm. It keeps the antifreeze from freezing in extremly cold weather and blowing out the freeze plugs.The oil sits at the bottom of the oil pan unheated. However, there are oil heaters available too. Oil will flow pretty well even at very low temps.There may be some heat transfer to the oil when the engine initially starts circulating the oil through the engine, but it'll get more heat from the combustion heat pretty quickly.

[hhsgiant]

ill tell you know if there is 0 degree weather in your area dont use a high proformance oil pump with out a heater for the oil pan

[DavidPIL]

Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »120 miles before the quarter? Holy crap!yes, I keep close track of that first quarter mark. Coming back from SC this past August, I actually got 164 miles to that first quarter mark. I was probably averaging 60 mph though taking back highways from Myrtle Beach to Charlotte NC. Ended up with 34.4 mpg for the entire trip.Dave

[DavidPIL]

Quote, originally posted by Atomb »i always considered the block heater a way of not doing damage to the engine...not a fuel saver. Isn't that the real benefit of a block heater? Having oil flow when you first start up the car in the frigid cold?Yeah, it's the real reason why I got it. Car turns over sooooo much easier when it's been plugged in. I have to assume that helps prevent wear. It seems to run much better and warm up (temp gauge) much more quickly than with it not plugged in. So then I also hae to assume since the engine takes less time to warm up (while driving) that it's slightly better in gas mileage. So, that's why I mentioned that as well.Dave

[binary]

Did you just get a block heater installed - or did you get the cold weather package that includes a battery warmer?My car, even stored in an unheated garage out of the wind, turns over slow in sub 10F weather. Not impressed with the OEM battery.

[DavidPIL]

Ordered it from the parts dept at my GM dealer and installed it myself. Apparently the GT block heater is much easier to install than the base, right Ragngfish? The hole where the probe thing goes is much more difficult to get to in the base. The GT's is in the middle of the block, on the side, (if I remember correctly) about 8-10 inches under the fuel rail (at a diagonal to the intake). Dave

[Atomb]

standard equipment on vibes sold in Canada!

[hhsgiant]

here in NC i hope i wont need a block warmer sub 10F is cold hey send me some snow down here so i can play in my vibe