Adding "retained accessory power" to the windows

[joatmon]

ok, I have the moonroof which runs off the PW circuit, but I don't have power windows. Instead of having RAP go away when a door is opened, I'd like it to stay around until the moon roof is closed. The moonroof has limit switches (diagram LS1 and LS2) and I already have a diode between them to disable the soft stop halfway when closing. The switches close to ground, providing ground as input to an IC (not shown), and have pull up resistors to 12V. Ideally it would work if I hooked up the second relay coil to the diode on the limit switches, but the pull up resistors limit current so there's not enough juice to power the second relay coil. So, what do I need to put in the area of the black box to use ground on LS1 and the lack of ground on LS2 to trigger enough power to activate the second relay coil and interrupt my RAP?

212215=7622-rap9.gif

[Jahntassa]

Just because i've already had a long day, and have looked at this a few times, and can't seem to come up with any options...Maybe just put another limit switch up there that contacts when the roof is closed and have it be normally closed?

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »ok, I have the moonroof which runs off the PW circuit, but I don't have power windows. Instead of having RAP go away when a door is opened, I'd like it to stay around until the moon roof is closed. The moonroof has limit switches (diagram LS1 and LS2) and I already have a diode between them to disable the soft stop halfway when closing. The switches close to ground, providing ground as input to an IC (not shown), and have pull up resistors to 12V. Ideally it would work if I hooked up the second relay coil to the diode on the limit switches, but the pull up resistors limit current so there's not enough juice to power the second relay coil. So, what do I need to put in the area of the black box to use ground on LS1 and the lack of ground on LS2 to trigger enough power to activate the second relay coil and interrupt my RAP?Okay - I think here's the problem: If you have it tilted, it'll cut RAP. Can't get around that without more complex circuit. (At least, until someone more clever than I posts how to.) I put a big ? where you have the diode because I though at first it might screw it up but I think you'll be okay.Anyway, you need a transistor. Can't use a bipolar (BJT) cause it'll screw up the pullups. So you need a MOSFET. This one from R-Shack should work fine:http://www.radioshack.com/prod...-2072Hook up the pins D S G as shown, with the 100 Ohm resistor. (the resistor isn't needed strictly speaking but'll help the FET live longer).When LS2 is open, the relay is grounded through the MOSFET, cutting off RAP. When the roof is open, the transistor is OFF and you keep RAP. 'Course, if you tilt it you'll lose RAP too.

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[jeffgtx]

why can't he just hook up to LS1? isnt' LS2 only grounded when it is ACTIVELY sliding open? or did i miss something?joat,why do you want this feature? won't it mean that your RAP will stay active after you have clsoed the door and consciously decided to leave the roof opened? that measn anybody could get in your car and open and close the roof over and over and over for hours while you are in at the movie

[joatmon]

I might pick up some components and mess with it, just to see what works. Maybe a comparator to combine LS1 and LS2, then drive the transistor. The relay coil on my second relay is about the same current rating as the relay coil of the PW relay, maybe I can use that MOSFET to eliminate the second relay.When the moon roof is slid open, either actively being slid either open or closed, or at rest while partially or fully slid open, LS1 and LS2 are both closed to ground. When the moonrof is tilted, either actively being tilted open or closed or at rest partially or fully tilted open, both limit switches are open. The "slid half closed" is the "safety" stop halfway when sliding it closed, the diode betweeen the two limit switches disables that annoying "feature".It's a token thing to put the key in, switch to ignition to get power to the moonroof to close it. If someone is in my car while I'm at the movie, there's more things I'd be worried about than having them play with the moonroof. If done right, the first time the moonroof closed, the RAP would go away, then they would be imprisoned inside the car (except for the whole door thing )It's really is a token thing though, probably interested in it more as a circuitry quiz than for any actual functional purpose. Maybe someone can come up with another electrical mod thing that we can all collaborate on, since your RAP need is satisfied.edit - uploading a remotely related pic for a diffferent thread

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[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »why can't he just hook up to LS1? isnt' LS2 only grounded when it is ACTIVELY sliding open? or did i miss something?He probably could just hook up the ground side of the relay to LS2, but then the relay coil would be in parallel with the pullup resistor and it's possible that it could cause a problem with the moonroof circuit. Then again it may not, but I think a $2 part is worth avoiding potential troubles.EDIT: On second thought- the relay is tied to B+, whereas the moonroof circuitry is powered through a switched +12v. Once the moonroof power was removed, +!2v would still feed through the relay coil into the moonroof IC, very likely damaging it.

[UptownVibe]

This hasn't been posted to in a long time…And the last question above really makes me weary about undertaking it, although I'm sure the steps are simple and I'm not afraid of a relay at this point in my modding.A few questions:Does this work and is proven out over time?Which of all these steps described in the previous 3 pages need to be done to be successful?Can additional relays be hooked up to the RAP source to power other things (i.e. radio, sunroof)?Thanks,UptownVibeP.S. Its my 1st post and I want to give big ups to all the crew that have posted in the past and gotten me to this point!Also, I’m driving from NYC to VT tonight to see the sunrise from a mountain top tomorrow morning Wish me luck!

[bedpan]

I know this is an old thread, but I tried doing this on the weekend to my '07, and had some hiccups. I was hoping there might be someone around who could shed some light. The relay. The middle in the bank of three relays. I found it. I yanked it. I stuck my multimeter to it. It has 4 pins:| | =The two on the right I guessed were the coil. The top was ground, the bottom should be the ignition power. The second in had 12V const, so I figured the leftmost was the power window control. I wired my relays up, tapped into the door trigger wire, and shortly after smelled bad electrical stink. The car wouldn't turn over until I yanked the wires, so it must have been a short someplace. I put everything back to stock, and all was well again. No blown fuses. But still no RAP. Hopefully there's someone out there who's done this mod, would could tell me where I'm going wrong...Thanks

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by bedpan »I know this is an old thread, but I tried doing this on the weekend to my '07, and had some hiccups. I was hoping there might be someone around who could shed some light. It's been a while, and even back then for me it was more of a puzzle, not something I really felt like I needed. The circuit evolved over the course of the thread. I think http://forums.genvibe.com/zerofile/7505/rap8.gif was the candidate final proposed circuitQuote, originally posted by bedpan »The relay. The middle in the bank of three relays. I found it. I yanked it. I stuck my multimeter to it. It has 4 pins:| | =The two on the right I guessed were the coil. The top was ground, the bottom should be the ignition power. The second in had 12V const, so I figured the leftmost was the power window control.That seems to match what I thought in http://forums.genvibe.com/zerofile/7425/rap4.jpgQuote, originally posted by bedpan » I wired my relays up, tapped into the door trigger wire, and shortly after smelled bad electrical stink. The car wouldn't turn over until I yanked the wires, so it must have been a short someplace. I put everything back to stock, and all was well again. No blown fuses. But still no RAP. Hopefully there's someone out there who's done this mod, would could tell me where I'm going wrong...Thanksjeffgtx and I had it working at one point, but I didn't leave it in place. Not sure what would cause it to get something hot enough to smell without blowing a fuse or to keep the starter from kicking off. Which diagram do you think you wired up? Are you sure you got the diodes' polarity correct?

[bedpan]

I was going off of the rap8 diagram, and I'm almost certain that my diodes were in the right direction. The only thing I did differently is i used two new 5 pin relays, and not one 5 pinand the original. That shouldn't make a difference though... I'll upload a picture of my doodle diagram when I get home from work. Maybe I copied something wrong. I dunno.

[bedpan]

This is what I made. As far as I can tell, the diodes are all the same as rap8, and the relays should all function the same...I'm still lost.

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[joatmon]

The diagram looks right, if the coil is 85 & 86, Common is 30 and normally closed is 87anot sure what to ask/suggest. What part number relays are you using?