So I looked at the crash reports for most of Pontiacs lower-end vehicles this year -- Mainly, the sunfire, Grand Am, and Grand Prix...and all of them got deplorable safety reports. The vibe got a great one, i sense only because toyota did the work...does anyone know what the deal is? Why would Pontiac try to sell a car that is truly unsafe?I'm kinda biased, because my sunfire held up amazingly when I lost control and went head on into a concret media, shortly followed by richocheting off a moving semi truck, but I was hesitate to get behind the wheel of any pontiac looking at these ridiculous safety ratings.If aynone from GM, or if anyone knows someone from GM, I'd really like to know these answers, cause I've been a loyal pontiac owner for ALL My life (which, in my case, I've only been driving 4 years, but i've had 4 pontaics in those years!), and I'd hate to have to settle into new brands next time my car is due for replacement, simply because GM lacks the desire to make a SAFE car.And as for the ION, as I read in another post, I have to say, Saturn=ugly.....but that's simply personal opinion!
YES!I still visit GenVibe periodically. I have not forgotten about my "original" family over here!
Generally, the more recent the body redesign (not just cosmetics, but the whole structure), the better the safety rating. Technology marches on and the engineers learn new and better ways to absorb and redirect crash energy.The Sunfire body was last redesigned somewhere around the time of the Eisenhower administration. The ratings should improve a lot when the new body comes out (in a year or two?).
The first GM J-body (Cavalier, Sunbird, Sunfire) design was from 1982 until 1994. The 1995 (and up) J-bodies were a totally new car from the ground up.
That is the main reason why I would never buy a Cavalier/Sunfire or a Grand Am/Alero. I was watching Dateline and saw how pathetic the cars where and that I haven't thought about them sense. It's amazing that the number one selling small car can be so terrible in an accident. The Vibe on the other hand should have a great rating. If you look at the new Corolla, it was top in it's class all the way around in a recent test. Since the Vibe/Matrix share the same platform and under body, I can't see why they would be different. The only area where the Vibe/Matrix differ is the area past the back door from what I've seen.
GM has never been great on safety, because they focus more on mass production. Saturn is one of the best in safety, but is being killed off by GM by slowly cutting funding. This is the land of the Suburban/Expedition soccer moms, that throughout their day sit on the cell phone. I don't feel safe even in the Vibe. When I can afford one, I will be in a full size truck.
Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for.
I've hate SUVs since they entered the market years ago, and I pray they die a slow painful death, because people will realize they're absurd, gas-guzzling, oversize P.O.S's that hurt more than the help. I will never cater to that industry by buying one. Never. Never. Never.Though, I can't remember if I did, in fact, mention, but my sunfire performed amazingly when it crashed -- no intrusions into the passenger cabin (except for crap coming through the winows and the airbag covers, etc...but no engine shtuff broke through.
YES!I still visit GenVibe periodically. I have not forgotten about my "original" family over here!
All auto engineers these days probably have comparable skills and tools, and should be able to design safe cars under real world, passive crash conditions. However, safety may compete for limited dollars that could otherwise go toward yet another must-have comfort or convenience feature. (Ie. Will that be a cool stereo/CD system or higher strength, thicker guage chassis sheetmetal?)Marketers will still sell safety, by emphasizing test results which present their particular vehicle's abilities/limitations in the best possible light.Some cars that get good NHTSA full width crash ratings do quite poorly when subjected to more severe crash conditions such as during tests involving higher impact speeds, during offset crashes (IIHS), or against opposing objects of greater mass. (trees or SUVs).It seems quite likely that low profit cars like the Sunfire/Cavilier/Vibe are tolerated in order to maintain corporate fuel economy figures when the lucrative SUV side of the auto industry is added in.
Mark and JaclynBase Vibe| Neptune(Two-Tone), Slate 5-Speed - Power - Cargo Mat -All Season Vinyl Mats(front and rear) - 16" Aluminum Wheels - 1 google-head dog
Keypoint is, don't get into a crash!!! My GA is so low, I could slip my hood under a pickups bumper, or bambi could come crashing through my windshield. Do I care? No. Point is, if I wanted to worry about crashing, I'd buy a greyhound bus or a semi, or one of those big arsh ugly SUV things. Can't go wrong there in surviving a crash.
Pictures of my ride!!'03 Vibe GTMy AED GA!Work in progress
Yeah, well, the way people drive these days, ESPECIALLY SUV owners, who think they're invincible, you can't help but worry about safety. Besides -- if you've been in an accident before, that becomes top priority when buying a car. Your perspective changes on things a lot after a crash. And no, I don't complain much. It's a concern, and I'm trying to understand how the auto industry thinks and works.
YES!I still visit GenVibe periodically. I have not forgotten about my "original" family over here!
dont forget those crash test are not 100% accurate, there are so many varibles such as: the size/weight of vehicle/object that you crash into. in the 80/90s compact cars were the majority of vehicles on the road, from id say 94 on the majority of vehicles are sportute/trucks. does pontiac even have a true sportute?? so ofcourse pontiac is going to score lower in saftey over all.
I completely agree with the comments on SUV drivers. Before my Vibe I was driving a Ford Explorer, and I often thought I drove like much more of an ******* in it. So why is that?Let's add a philosophical point to the discussion, whether it's actually better to design "safer" cars. In England, they have started to deliberately design "unsafe" intersections - blind corners, no warning signs, etc. They have found that drivers slow down to a slower rate of speed than even what the traffic experts would declare as safe, and thus the rate of accidents at that intersection drops dramatically below those that are designed "safely".The theory that is being put forward is that with "safer" cars (designed to better withstand accidents), more warning signs, etc. that drivers have a heightened threshold for danger. Basically, they are aware of all these safety improvements and thus are willing to take more chances - drive at a higher rate of speed around the corner, go through that very yellow light, whatever. Therefore, the product manufacturers and civil engineers that are constantly spending money and doing research on how to make the cars we drive and the roads we drive on "safer" are actually putting us in more danger because of human nature.Another study to offer as proof of this theory had a number of motorcycling journalists as the subjects. They rode a course on their bikes in their full gear. Then, they rode the course again without their helmet. And then without their jacket, and so on. By the second-last time around the course, they were clad in only their underwear. The last time 'round they donned full gear again to account for any familiarity gained by riding the course repeated times. The result: the riders decreased their speed each and every time they had less protective gear on, despite that they were getting more and more familiar with the course.Not that I'm saying that Pontiac should be designing unsafe cars. The point is that the more and more we rely on product manufacturers to make us safe, the less we look after ourselves. There is strong evidence from these studies that we - not the government, not GM, not Goodyear - should be the ones entrusted with our own safety.
quote:does pontiac even have a true sportute?? don't forget the aztek. while unconvential, it technically falls into the SUV category. but couldn't pontiac take advantage of their relation to chevy, buick, etc. and use their SUV info to build safer cars?
YES!I still visit GenVibe periodically. I have not forgotten about my "original" family over here!
quote:does pontiac even have a true sportute?? don't forget the aztek. while unconvential, it technically falls into the SUV category. but couldn't pontiac take advantage of their relation to chevy, buick, etc. and use their SUV info to build safer cars?The Aztec was rated Tops in its class for safety and Roll-Over resistance. Its ugly, but I test drove one before the Vibe, and it drove REAL nice. That 180HP 3.4 was a kick too!As for changing designs for safer cars, Saturn's VUE is designed as an SUV, but has car level bumpers and crumple zones for protection to both vehicles in a crash...actually pretty cool.
Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for.
quote:The Aztec was rated Tops in its class for safety and Roll-Over resistance. Its ugly, but I test drove one before the Vibe, and it drove REAL nice. That 180HP 3.4 was a kick too!As for changing designs for safer cars, Saturn's VUE is designed as an SUV, but has car level bumpers and crumple zones for protection to both vehicles in a crash...actually pretty cool.I was not aware the aztek was so highly rated. Who says the ugly won't prevail. lol.Did not know that about the vue, thanks for the info.
YES!I still visit GenVibe periodically. I have not forgotten about my "original" family over here!
quote: The Vibe on the other hand should have a great rating. Yes. The VIBE is pretty much 5 stars accross the board. The safety rating results were posted on this board a long time ago.Check here http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id ... =4354#4354
quote:The Aztec was rated Tops in its class for safety and Roll-Over resistance.That's cuz it never leaves the garage. Too ugly to drive.GM should allow the safety and exterior design team to work together Imagine what they could do?
now THERE's a thought!the aztek has been on the market for several years without a major body change...i'd like to believe it is due for an overhaul...or discontinuation...either way, they need to change something to give it a "rebirth"
YES!I still visit GenVibe periodically. I have not forgotten about my "original" family over here!
quote:The first GM J-body (Cavalier, Sunbird, Sunfire) design was from 1982 until 1994. The 1995 (and up) J-bodies were a totally new car from the ground up.Scott,As the "King of Sarcasm", you need a calibration on your hyperbole detector.
quote:the aztek has been on the market for several years without a major body change...i'd like to believe it is due for an overhaul...or discontinuation...either way, they need to change something to give it a "rebirth"2001 was first model year for Aztek. It received paint/wheel/feature upgrades for 2002.