NE USA Blackout

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:14 am

Northeast United States and parts of Canada (Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal area) has no power due to powergrid overload. That includes all of NY, Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, NJ, Connecticut, etc. Fortunately, PA still has power.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:15 am

wow. that really sucks.

cibomatto · Post by **cibomatto** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:09 am

Man this page loaeded quickly..anyhow.. I hope this wasn't a terrorist attack... Jeeez...

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:13 am

No terrorist attack. They don't know the cause, but right now, it is believed that the problem is:"related to a malfunction at Canadaâ€™s Niagara Mohawk power grid, which rippled across the enormous Eastern Interconnected System power grid, which supplies about a third of the United States. Deborah Drew, a spokeswoman for the USA National Grid Co., which operates the system, told NBC News that no explanation had yet been found."

meathead333 · Post by **meathead333** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:27 am

quote:"related to a malfunction at Canadaâ€™s Niagara Mohawk power grid, which rippled across the enormous Eastern Interconnected System power grid, which supplies about a third of the United States. Deborah Drew, a spokeswoman for the USA National Grid Co., which operates the system, told NBC News that no explanation had yet been found."blame it on canada...lol, go figure! just kidding

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:31 am

Again. No actual cause has been confirmed, these theories are just that...theories...Minutes ago, the PM of Canada said a lightning strike hit a plant in Niagara, NY that simply dominoed down to the rest of the Northeast grid...but again -- theory.

MrRich · Post by **MrRich** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:46 am

Power is back!YEAAAAH!

msmyer · Post by **msmyer** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:12 am

They reported that there was a power outage somewhere in OHIO, but not in Dayton! I was hoping that we would get some extra sales at Kroger's the grocery store, I manage for. People in general are hilarious when "stuff" like this happens! Like with the Y2K thing, we almost sold out of necessity items like water, bread, etc. and with the terrorists attack stuff we were selling items like duct tape and plastic. Last year it was the West Nile Virus thing and we sold a lot of bug spray! Stuff like this is unfortunate but it HELPS my bonus!

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:03 am

quote:They reported that there was a power outage somewhere in OHIO, but not in Dayton! I was hoping that we would get some extra sales at Kroger's the grocery store, I manage for. People in general are hilarious when "stuff" like this happens! Like with the Y2K thing, we almost sold out of necessity items like water, bread, etc. and with the terrorists attack stuff we were selling items like duct tape and plastic. Last year it was the West Nile Virus thing and we sold a lot of bug spray! Stuff like this is unfortunate but it HELPS my bonus! ROFL I don't know what to say to that... hope the power is on tomorrow in Cleveland when kaye and I come to Cleveland to watch the GREENBAY PACKERS play somebody.

msmyer · Post by **msmyer** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:19 am

quote:hope the power is on tomorrow in Cleveland when kaye and I come to Cleveland to watch the GREENBAY PACKERS play somebody. I was gonna go to that game, to see the Packers play! I'm a Bengals fan but I will NEVER see GB in Cincinnati! LoL Unless the Bengals make the playoffs, and then get a tough schedule the next year! Btw...Check the Bengals '03 Schedule http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=2664 (This made me think about it)

VibeSalsa · Post by **VibeSalsa** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:47 am

quote: and parts of Canada (Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal area) has no power due to powergrid overload. Check this map and you'll find that there is no blackout in the QuÃ©bec province (including MontrÃ©al area...) According to Radio-Canada, Atlantic provinces and Quebec were not part of this blackout at 22h40 2003-08-14. "Quebec is just across the river and power in that province is still on. Many people who work in the nation's capital live in Quebec."You can find more info on: http://radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/Intern ... anne.shtml http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/08/14/powercan030814

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:28 pm

UPDATE: Northwest Pennsylvania and Vermont have now been confirmed to be without power, as a result of today.This has officially become the largest blackout in the history of the country.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:37 pm

quote:Btw...Check the Bengals '03 Schedule http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=2664 (This made me think about it)LOL kind of like the Chicago bears schedule!

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:40 pm

quote:Northeast United States and parts of Canada (Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal area) has no power due to powergrid overload. That includes all of NY, Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, NJ, Connecticut, etc. Fortunately, PA still has power.Hey Nova, Montreal and all the province of Quebec have power. We didn't has a single hit.I know, I have to take the load of the Toronto office...

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:10 pm

quote:Hey Nova, Montreal and all the province of Quebec have power. We didn't has a single hit.I know, I have to take the load of the Toronto office...I said "Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal area" as in that general vicinity. I also gave this thread the subject "NE USA Blackout" but it's not the entire NE USA. Pennsylvania never lost power either.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:07 pm

Actually, the NW corner around Erie did...according to news reports...but the rest of you got off lucky.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:14 pm

Headline:"Blackout Starting Point May Be in Ohio "Dammit Nick! What did you do!

fire_502 · Post by **fire_502** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:41 am

I'd say, blame Canada...but apparently we are the dumbasses relying on them. Well i just filled up my gas tank...took me 41 minutes to get through the line and fill up. The ATM inside the gas station is empty.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:56 am

quote:I'd say, blame Canada...but apparently we are the dumbasses relying on them. Well i just filled up my gas tank...took me 41 minutes to get through the line and fill up. The ATM inside the gas station is empty. Same here for the gas.. Why would Canada blame it on lightning when it was sunny out?as an Alaskan, we realize most of the US relies on other sources for gas. kind of dumb since we have so many natural resources in our own country to explore. politics if you ask me. too busy preserving every twig and weed. i believe in conservation, maximizing our resources with the least amount of energy or waste needed. why do we need to rely on outside countries for salmon, petroleum products, power, etc? we've got plenty here. as for lightning, it can hit when it's sunny outside too. someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think lightning has anything to do with if it's raining or not. no?

bckersey · Post by **bckersey** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:10 am

Just got my power back on - almost exactly 24 hours after it went off! Accroding to the WJR out of Detroit, no one knows exactly what happened. They also have over the course of the night and day reported some of the following: Cananda first blamed the power failure on a power plant in NY (near Niagra falls on the US side) that failed. How ever that power plant does not exist, according to people that live in that area. Then Canada blamed it on a lightning strike at a power plant in NY. According to local citizens, the last light there was two days ago. Then Canandian officials blamed it on a fire at a Pennslyvania power plant. The fire they blamed it on was a fire in a trash barrel outside the power plant. Now reports are coming out that something happened in Ohio. I don't care anymore, just glad the power is back with out too much damage.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:12 am

maybe it was the one armed man.

fire_502 · Post by **fire_502** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:30 am

Was the state fair supposed to start today? I heard they delayed it a day, but I don't know when it was supposed to start. Is the Dream cruise back on? Yesterday they were telling people not to go out there.

Vibe Rater · Post by **Vibe Rater** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:53 am

Michigan eyed as likely trigger for massive blackoutBy Steve Orr, Rochester Democrat and ChronicleROCHESTER, N.Y. â€” Thursday's massive power outage apparently began in Michigan, not western New York, according to a Wisconsin firm that monitors the nation's power grid.Electrical outages then cascaded within a few seconds to Ohio, then New Jersey and Connecticut, and finally to New York, according to data gathered by SoftSwitching Technologies."Preliminary data is indicating that it started in Michigan," said Daniel Bielinski, vice president of development and strategy for SoftSwitching, which is based near Madison, Wis.Bielinski said company experts continue to study the data but have not yet drawn any conclusions about what might have precipitated the vast power outage."That's part of what we're analyzing right now. It appears that it happened in Michigan," he said.Investigators said they are focusing on the massive grid that encircles Lake Erie, the Associated Press said. That network moves power from New York to the Detroit area, into Canada and back into New York state.However, an industry-sponsored group that tracks power grids says the cause won't be immediately known."We keep getting new information," said Ellen Vancko of the North American Reliability Council (NERC). "In reality we will have to wait a few days before we can really sort out what happened."Early reports Thursday night suggested the problem began near Niagara Falls, perhaps with a lightning strike. But officials at Niagara Mohawk Power Corp., which operates the electrical system in that region, strongly denied the failure began in their territory. Later reports suggested a Canadian origin.The NERC, Vancko said, has eliminated lightning as a cause.The data gathered by SoftSwitching's monitors, however, show the first sustained drop in voltage occurred at nine minutes, two seconds after 4 p.m. Thursday, in Michigan. Two more significant voltage drops occurred in that state over the next 20 seconds or so, and the first actual interruptions of power began to occur, in Michigan, at 4:10:34.By 4:10:39, the first outage had been registered in Ohio, followed closely by interruptions in Connecticut and New Jersey. At 4:10:48, Softswitching registered its first outage in New York.The company does not record power disturbances at every point on the electric grid. Instead, it operates a network of about 1,000 monitors that record voltage and other data. About 70% of the monitors are placed at industrial facilities and other large, private-sector electric users, Bielinski said, and 30% are deployed on the transmission grid by electric utilities.The company collects data from the monitors in real time. The network has been in regular operation for about 1Â½ years, he said

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 9:56 am

I think it's odd, even a little scary, to think that nuclear power stations were knocked out because of this. They make power to serve hundreds of towns, but not enough to keep themselves in opperation? The system really needs an upgrade! Which makes me wonder why am I paying so much on my utility bill every month? If they are neglecting the infastructure, what are they doing with all this money?

1 Cool Vibe · Post by **1 Cool Vibe** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:58 am

quote:got my power back on - almost exactly 24 hours after it went off! Same story here. We lost power on Long Island 4:10pm and although some towns were back up again later that same night, I didn't get power back until 2pm this afternoon. The towns of Freeport and Greenport were only without power for about 1 hour yesterday because they are both incorporated villages and they were smart enough to buy and install their own seperate power generators.

Vibe Rater · Post by **Vibe Rater** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:29 pm

One thing is becoming abudantly clear. As a whole, we're using too much power and not producing enough. The governments keep stoking the economy and encouraging growth, which is a good thing for all of us, but when we all buy new homes and appliances and air conditioners, electronics etc., the power generation capacity just isn't growing as fast as the economy is. It's a train wreck waiting to happen. It will probably happen again. In other parts of the world, blackouts are a regular occurance. One of the only jurisdictions that is totally self sufficient in electricity is the province of Quebec. They are truly fortunate to have an abundant source of hydroelectricity. I see no reason why those bigarss wind powered generators shouldn't be a common sight in our everyday lives.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:32 pm

It's not just supply and demand.It's the medium upon which that demand is transmitted -- it's an antiquated power grid, designed for the capacities needed in the 50s and 60s...now in 2003, with the advent of computers, and every little minute aspect of our lives requiring electricity, we demand more, and while the supply is there, the transmission lines and equipment can't handle it...so they just throw up their hands, give up, overheat, or just die.

ngilbert · Post by **ngilbert** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:39 pm

quote:I'd say, blame Canada...but apparently we are the dumbasses relying on them. Sigh.... Not to start anything, but the it's not like one county is supplying another for all its power requirements. The grid is shared between Canada and US. There are great benefits to this (import, export etc.), but there are drawbacks. Unfortunately, when you have systems that are totally connected and dependant on each other, even a small change in one spot of the grid can have drastic effects in other parts. Just like we saw in this blackout. Heck, even ol' Saskatchewan reported that there was a small frequency flucuation because of the blackout!Quebec never even flickered - their power frequencies are 90 deg. out of phase from the grid that went down. Depending on who you talk to, that's either a lesson learned from the big Ice storm a few years back, or they just wanted to be separate. (And that is an entire whole other issue....) And last time I checked, I thought the Montreal area included Montreal. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this!It's a shame that finger pointing seems to be the order of the day, when the real discussions should be about beefing up or repairing the antiquidated transmission lines. There's more than enough generation, but the method of moving it around is starting to suffer.Peace...BTW, I do contract work for an utility company.

ngilbert · Post by **ngilbert** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:42 pm

quote:It's not just supply and demand.It's the medium upon which that demand is transmitted -- it's an antiquated power grid, designed for the capacities needed in the 50s and 60s...now in 2003, with the advent of computers, and every little minute aspect of our lives requiring electricity, we demand more, and while the supply is there, the transmission lines and equipment can't handle it...so they just throw up their hands, give up, overheat, or just die.Hear hear...But man, it's hard to build new transmission lines these days. Alot of the "not in my back yard" stuff always comes up. For good reasons too I suppose. I wonder if we need to look at more localized generation rather than rely so much on transmission?

canadavibegt · Post by **canadavibegt** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:18 pm

quote:I just got my power back on and we are due for 2-4" of rain..Canada blamed it on a Lightning Strike and they ruled that out..This should of never happend..... We have like 5 power stations in SE Michigan.Now, I guess we send our power the the Niagra Falls Plant and they send it back it is is dispursed.. Screw that... We should be independent. Go independant.... Good luck you guys do not produce enought power to run your Country.... If it were not for Ont/Quebec and BC you would be burning candles every night..... BC supplies huge portions of the power consumed on the Western side of the US....by the way your welcome at least we help out with something... maybe we can send you a few troops to help out in Iraq too... (if our dumb A$$ of a Priminster would quit thinking of himself and worry about the rest of us.)

Mojomiko · Post by **Mojomiko** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:09 pm

quote:I hope Michigan does or atleast my area. Tpp many people were affected by this. Each state should be responsible for itself, the way I feel. Then you need to be prepared to pay a premium for this. The whole idea behind the grid is economies of scale. It is far more cost efficient for more people to share form the same source of energy than it is for everyone to produce their own.

macrosonic · Post by **macrosonic** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:00 am

quote:"related to a malfunction at Canadaâ€™s Niagara Mohawk power grid, which rippled across the enormous Eastern Interconnected System power grid...."Niagara Mohawk is a New York State power company, not Canada. Who writes these articles??

Vibe Rater · Post by **Vibe Rater** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:45 am

quote:"related to a malfunction at Canadaâ€™s Niagara Mohawk power grid, which rippled across the enormous Eastern Interconnected System power grid...."Niagara Mohawk is a New York State power company, not Canada. Who writes these articles??By Steve Orr, Rochester Democrat and Chronicle

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 11:45 am

They were referring to the Niagara Mohawk grid, which refers to the grid that is powered by the Niagara Mohawk facility. That grid is massive, and passes over the border into Canada...

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:56 am

I was golfing across the river in Quebec with coworkers when we heard about the blackout. I was hoping it would come back on before I got finished my dinner and back to Ottawa (since Quebec never lost power). No such luck. Got home and had to walk up 14 flights of stairs - our building had a generator running so the emergency lights in the stairwells worked, however the generator ran out of gas so the super had to go to Quebec to get gas. We got our power back around 11:30pm and lost it 13 hours later on Friday. Then it came back on a couple of hours later, but by that time we decided to go to my parent's place near Kingston. They lost their power, but when it came back on it didn't go out again.My boyfriend and I are planning on building a house that will be independent of the grid. This is something my bf has felt strongly about for as long as I've known him (so it wasn't the blackout that convinced us to do this). We actually did put an offer in on a house last year that was solar and propane powered and had no hydro electricity.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 5:10 am

Down the line, when I build a house, I won't separate myself from teh grid, but I will put in some sort of system to keep necessary systems and appliances running in an outage. Mainly, water, climate control (A/C only, as I would have a fireplace for winter time), and food refrigeration. I wouldn't power any lights, except I might consider wiring a single light in each room, extremely low wattage, but just enough to avoid tripping or crashing into things.Yes, it's far-fetched, but where I live now, when you lose power, you lose it all. Including water. Which means no toilets, no showers. It's NOT pleasant.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 5:58 am

quote:Yes, it's far-fetched, but where I live now, when you lose power, you lose it all. Including water. Which means no toilets, no showers. It's NOT pleasant.Same as at my parents where I grew up - no flushing, no showers, no nothing when hydro goes out. During the ice storm in '98 we had no hydro for 6 days. Ugh it was kinda stinky around my place! We started melting snow to wash with.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:22 am

Hmm... I have a bit of a dilemma - the Ontario Premier just told all gov't workers to stay home tomorrow in order to conserve power. My dilemma is that I work for a private company in a fed gov't building. Now do I go to work or stay home!?

Hot Vibe · Post by **Hot Vibe** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:15 pm

Thank goodness we own Vibe's. I was able to get a descent sleep because of my Vibe. Ran a power cable from the Vibe into the house and ran a fan all night. The power came back on here late Friday night. Here is to my theory of always having at least a third of a tank. I did not realize that there was no power until almost 6:30 EST. I got home before 4pm and did yard work and washed and waxed the Vibe. When I was done I pulled it back into the garage and hit the button on the remote to shut the door when I noticed I did not work. EUREKA no power. Crap now I have to drink beer and grill red meet. I hate that when that happens. Does anyone realize that right here in Michigan on the west side of the state we have a wonderful Nuclear power plant that could have been used as a backup for all of our power needs. Over 2 million people in Michigan alone was without power. Poeple as a general rule are stupid as well. The was declared an emergency and people were supposed to stay home. Why then were there lines hours long with people waiting to buy gas. This is a message for all of those people that supposedly prepared for Y2K. You are all morons and why don't you leave the planet so that we humans can thrive. I can understand on Thursday trying to get enough gas to get home. I enjoyed my day off. I played with my son outside and we had a wonderful time. Walked the dog and rode a bike. Cut the grass and went for a swim in the lake. I think that we should do this every year so that the morons would supply themselves for the future. I hope that most of them learned a valuable lesson. That is why I do not like large cities. Chaos always ensues and things go back to the way they were shortly after and everyone forgets. That reminds me, to be honest I think that some of our population has already forgotten 9-11.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:33 am

Had to go in to do my timecard so I would get paid this week and then we went home!

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:15 pm

And I just found out we're off again today. I hope I'm getting paid for this (and its not vacation pay!).

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:49 am

We were called last night and told to come to work (finally). So I show up at work today and only floors 2 throught 6 have lights and AC. My floor is not any of those floors. So I go up to the office and its dark with only emergency lights on and no AC. The hot air hits you like a brick and its almost impossible to breathe. When I go into the bathroom its almost completely black except for one light over the sink. Anyway I guess people on floors 7 through 11 were told not to come to work except in my office, the manager decided we should be at work. Finally someone else told the manager to close the office because of health and safety issues and we were to go home until Monday. So I'm off until Monday!

VibeChick · Post by **VibeChick** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:04 pm

I'm reviving this thread...for anyone who's interested, a joint Canada-US task force was assembled to review the blackout causes and provide recommendations. I am attaching a link to the report that was produced. The first part of the report contains some interesting info that explains how our interconnected north american grid works. The report is quite detailed, but very interesting.Have a look, if you are at all interested in how our we get our electricty.... http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/media/d...e.htm

VibeChick · Post by **VibeChick** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:08 pm

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Thanks for the information... Hey, I'm a dork...I live for this stuff!!