Insurance cancelled on lowered vehicle

[lilmissy]

My friend who owns a Vibe told me about this discussion site and that there had been a number of questions regarding insurance companies refusing to insure cars that were lowered.I don't own a Vibe, I own a Sunfire, which is lowered. After my friend questioned me on whether or not my insurance was ok with this, I called and "hypothetically" asked if I would be still covered if I lowered my car. They said no and automatically cancelled my insurance. I've been given 15 days to either find another insurance company that will cover me (which after an hours worth of calling brokers has not yet happened) or have the lowering springs removed, and have the sport shop that performs the service fax a letter with proof the original ones have been put back in. The drop was all of 1.8 inches. Eibach, Sportline coils.Does anyone know of any insurance companies that WILL insure me in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada? Or am I being given a load of crap?

[AKLGT]

wow. that really sucks. my mom works for All State and I'll ask her how it works. as they say, it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask permission. do it and then claim ignorance if asked. don't ask, don't tell. i'd stick with that from now on.

[AKLGT]

i spoke to my mom on the phone a few mins ago. she said that the A carriers will drop you, but you can check with some brokers that do private insurance. you can get coverage, but will pay out the nose. she also informed me the issue is not about lowering the car or aftermarket parts, but about safety. the closer to the ground you are, the more likely you will die is in a head on collision. it's all about safety and bodily harm. they also assume that if you are lowering your vehicle, you're more likely to add more performance parts, making you more likely to speed, thus making you more likely to be in an accident with bodily injury. right now, insurance is pretty tight and no one is writing anyone with bad credit or driving records. whether it's a house, car, or boat, if you've had any claims recently, then forget it. most major carriers will now drop you if you put a claim in and other carriers won't take you since you have a history of filing claims.

[NovaResource]

Just don't tell them it's lowered. If they ask about the springs say they are just replacements.

[Vibe Rater]

Insurance companies in Canada right now have gone completely nuts. It's bad enough they have increased rates 30% and up across the board. They are looking for any reason to charge you more, like cancel a group discount you may have had or fporce you to increase coverage. A friend of mine has a son that just got his license. He called his agent to ask hypothetically what it would cost to insure his son as a secondary driver on his car. The agent then told him that the increase would start immediately. My friend reminded his agent that he had just called to inquire about the cost of insurance and he wasn't ready to let his son drive his car yet. Too bad the agent said. You just told us that you have a son of driving age with a license living with you in your house, so as of now you must pay for insurance for him, whether he drives or not. You have to be very careful what you say to anyone on the phone when you call an insurance office. The insurance industry in Canada has gone completely insane to the point that provincial governments have fallen because of hiked insurance rates. We are at their mercy. Drop yer drawers and grab yer ankles.

[pissedoffgokart]

If you ever had an accident, chances are the adjuster will not even notice as, even with my 3.5" drop you would never know really unless you sat it next to one that is stock. Most people are suprised to find out it is lowered!

[yank dini]

quote:Just don't tell them it's lowered. If they ask about the springs say they are just replacements.Exactly. Dont ask dont tell.

[Triton]

That really sucks! I can't believe they just dropped your coverage like that. I wouldn't say anything to them in the future though. Sorry to hear what you have to go through though.

[Sputnik]

I'm the bad friend who mentioned this to lilmissy. Whoops I wish I had never asked her about insurance!! Memo to others - don't ask your friends about their insurance and if you do get asked about insurance deny everything!! Who knew that would happen from a hypothetical question!

[AKLGT]

exactly! my mom told me call my insurance co and ask them. I said no way! they will automatically assume you have done it and will jack up the rates! or as lilmissy found out, cancel your insurance. that's just complete BS! you pay how much for insurance? then if you do anything at all, you pay out the nose! all the rates go up because too many people making frivilous lawsuits. now, everyone has to cough it up to recoop their losses!

[MadBill]

quote:...all the rates go up because too many people making frivilous lawsuits. now, everyone has to cough it up to recoup their losses!I think it's more that the companies got used to double-digit returns on the investments they make with our premiums, and when the bottom fell out of the market, unlike the average investor, they have another source for the "lost" income...

[Psychobroker]

quote:It is the worst time to get insurance. One woman told me they expect the market to stay like this for at least another year or so... If they won't cover "perfect" clients, they won't touch anyone with non-standard vehicles.I am an insurance broker myself, hence the spiffy handle . I can confirm that this is currently one of the "hardest" markets the insurance industry has seen in recent years.However, MOST Staes in the Union REQUIRE a minimum of 60 days prior notice if an insurance company intends to cancel an Insured's policy for ANY reason OTHER than non-payment of premium (for which, in CA, they must give a minimum of 10 days). I have no idea how strict insurance laws in Canada are, but 15 days seems close to UNLAWFUL. EDIT: Per Condition 11, a Candian Insurer must give 15 days notice for cancellation due to NON-PAYMENT (found nothing re underwriting reasons)I would call The Centre for the Financial Services OmbudsNetwork (CFSON) @ 1-866-538-FS0N (3766), or 416-777-2043 in Toronto (for services in French, call 1-866-668-7273). Web site: http://www.cfson-crcsf.ca. as provided by Insurance-Canada.ca.EDIT #2:Well this sucks...snipped from an article I found at the Insurance Bureau of Canadaquote:the insurance company must give you written notice, delivered either personally or by registered mail. If the notice is personally served, the cancellation takes effect five days after delivery; if it is sent by registered mail, the cancellation becomes effective after 15 days, starting from the day after the notice has been delivered to the addressee's post office. Whether or not you actually pick up the notice from the post office makes no difference, as you discovered. Insurers are not required to give you a reason for cancelling your coverage, but they may choose to do so, as your insurer did. Probably the most common reason for cancellation is unpaid premiums. Under these circumstances, the insurer has no choice but to cancel. Otherwise, it would be obliged to cover you even if you hadn't paid a cent. However, if there has been a genuine misunderstanding about an unpaid premium, as you imply, explain it to your insurer right away. If the insurer agrees that it was an honest mistake, it may be willing to resume your coverage from that point on. Otherwise, your record will show that your insurance was cancelled for non-payment of premium, and may come back to haunt you when you apply for insurance at another company. And if you have a mortgage on your house, the mortgagee will also receive notification of your cancellation. That could really put you in the doghouse! The insurer may also cancel your policy if it discovers that you have withheld important information about the risk it is insuring. So don't give your insurer cause for cancellation. That way, you can keep your coverage intact and leave the cancellations to the television networks!Candian insurance laws suck big time

[Sputnik]

Ugh! Thats not so good.

[AKLGT]

yikes! glad that we don't have to deal with that here in the US. Still, it seems pretty low to cancel coverage just from asking a question. I think I'd get the springs off pronto otherwise the cost just doesn't outweigh the benefits.

[Sputnik]

Maybe you could immediately get them taken off, have the shop fax the insurance company that it was done, and then put them back on without the company knowing?

[AKLGT]

well, you could always put them back on yourself later. not pay a shop to do it.

[meathead333]

quote:Just don't tell them it's lowered. If they ask about the springs say they are just replacements.Exactly. Dont ask dont tell.i totally agree too. like the saying goes...."its easier to get forgiveness than permission"

[Sputnik]

Yeah but the problem is, it was just a hypothetical question. They had no proof that lilmissy had done it. Seems a bit weird that they can just do that based on a hypothetical question. I mean anyone just calling for info about anything now has to be worried that they might be jeopardizing their insurance... just from a question!

[ragingfish]

quote:like the saying goes...."its easier to get forgiveness than permission"Not to be a *******, but I believe the saying goes, "It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

[MadBill]

quote:Yeah but the problem is, it was just a hypothetical question. They had no proof that lilmissy had done it. Seems a bit weird that they can just do that based on a hypothetical question. I mean anyone just calling for info about anything now has to be worried that they might be jeopardizing their insurance... just from a question!Scary! I think if I have any questions, I'll call them from a pay phone and use one of those electronic voice-altering devices... Better yet, I'll identify myself as someone I have a grudge against, and get his insurance cancelled!

[lilmissy]

In my opinion, inurance has to be the largest "legal scam" in the world. (Hey, we're entitiled to our opinions aren't we?)For those who may be wondering about my driving record etc. In 10 years, i've gotten 1 speeding ticket. No accidents, no claims. No points etc. I was insured under the company (that has now cancelled my policy) on my parents vehicle for at least 3 years (if not more), before I purchased my own car, and chose to use the same company. Shouldn't this count for something? Is there not some way to assess one's risk to an insurer on an individual basis instead of lumping someone who just wants there car to look nice in with those out there that do choose to drive their modified cars like idiots. (I do give credit to those owners of modified vehicles that participate in events responsibly, and I certainly don't want to tick anyone off here) But come on, if this company can risk insuring our other vehicle, a 2003 Hyundai Tiburon GT, which comes, at stock mind you, with the same features I chose to upgrade on mine, (ie 17" wheels, lower than normal, but not "lowered", and with 170hp goes twices as fast....), with no problem, why the big fuss over a little bitty 115hp unmodified engine, Sunfire? He's just a big of a risk, considering he HAS had claims (all "no-fault").I'm really confused as to how insurance companies actually make sense of this?? And how they can get away with it...

[Fialchar]

Not to sound like some sneaky type of ******* or anything, But I know a large quantity of shops around here that would remove a cat converter, alter an engine computer code, etc, off the books, for a cash fee. I'm sure there's a place that would be willing to fax over a fake receipt showing you paid to have the springs removed and the stock ones put back on as long as you pay them some money under the table.If you do decide to do this, it may be wise to keep enough money around to actually change the springs in case insurance decides to send someone to check it out For legal purposes, I never wrote that, my evil twin Zoltar did.

[dsegundo]

On the risk of sounding like a 'hater but INSURANCE SUCKS!!! What a scam. btw. Don't tell them anything, and get as many discounts as you can get.

[Psychobroker]

I'm an insurance broker *looks around for scammers*Actually, I could give a rats a$$ about auto insurance because I don't sell it! mwahahaha!

[dsegundo]

Sorry psycho....we don't mean the people but the whole concept of it just is a scam.

[Altus]

Especially here in Ontario - where having auto insurance is required by law, then totally not monitored by the same government -- giving the insurance companies a legal licence to rob us blind.Talk about 'charging what the market will bear'!When you have no choice but to have coverage, it seems in Ontario you have to bear a lot.And don't even get me started on motorcycle insurance -- we get it even worse.

[Fialchar]

I'm a 19 year old driver who has not been in a single wreck, accident, or backed up into anything. I pay $2000 every 6 months for insurance It's required by law here in Florida as well.

[lilmissy]

FYI: A few things have changed since I first posted about the cancelled insurance policy. I was able to finally get insurance through Allstate (mind you, for a higher price, and not without an appraisal) however, just recently for other insurance, I called a Co-operator Agent, told her my prediciment (yes, I know a lot of you are saying lie but I didn't...) and my lowered Sunfire was approved the moment they saw the appraisal... at a premium $800 less... Can we say a switch in my insurance agents is in the near future? Definatly.The first company takes one look at the appraisal and said "she's racing, let's rip her off".The second one takes one look at the same documents and establishes that my customized components are "all for show" and says no problem. This in fact shows just how ***ked up the Ontario insurance industry is. One company thinks your a criminal, the other says "sure ok". Hopefully this will end my insurance woes.

[ragingfish]

You think THAT'S bad?? Come to Jersey. We'll show you a corrupted insurance system...

[Psychobroker]

I hate to break it to you, but auto insurance (liability and comprehensive) is like this in most states, even though rates vary from state to state. That being said, CA is by FAR the highest rated state, so non-Californians shouldn't be complaining . On top of this, our gas prices are the highest in the country too (now over $2.30 / gal for 91!!). Oh, and Fialchar, $4k a year does seem awefully high...you sure you're not insuring other vehicles, on a shared plan, or carrying super-high limits? Who's your carrier? Just curious.EDIT: Go to insurance.com. When I was shopping around in June '03, the Companies they represent had the best rates by far, they don't charge broker fees, and you buy directly from the Insurance Company (ie Liberty, The Hartford, etc.). A 12-month policy for two vehicles, two drivers ('03 Vibe, '96 4x4 Explorer), liability @ $500 deductible, comp/collision @ $100 ded., upgraded rental ($40/day), upgraded towing (I forget how far), $50k/$100k liability limit....for under $3,000. This is with an accident (me) and speeding ticket (me). Our carrier is Liberty Mutual

[Fialchar]

I'm covered through Allstate, but there's two facotrs that no doubt raise my insurance payments much higher. 1.) I have premium coverage with high coverage (Like $300,000 on some, $100,000 on others, etc) and 2.) I used to speed waaayyyyy too much. I currently have 11 out of 12 points on my liscence due to speeding. If I get pulled over for speeding 1 more time my liscence is revoked >I'm a safe driver as far as skill, but I drive much faster than what the insurance company/cops/the law says is "safe"Never been in an accident or wreck of any kind (Not that I was driving in, anyways) but it's the speeding tickets that are killing me *Edit* I meant to say my liscence is suspended, not revoked.

[AKLGT]

wow! you'd think you'd let up on the gas pedal a little after that! lol

[Fialchar]

I know, I just love the thrill of pushing an engine to it's limit >*Sigh* I guess I better tone it down a bit, if not out of fear of getting pulled over, then at least for love of my Vibe

[Psychobroker]

EDIT: Brainfart! Liability coverage is not subject to a deductible. Collision deductible is $500, comprehensive (theft, vandalism, damage other than collision) subject to a $100 deductible.

[Psychobroker]

Quote »I'm covered through Allstate, but there's two facotrs that no doubt raise my insurance payments much higher. 1.) I have premium coverage with high coverage (Like $300,000 on some, $100,000 on others, etc) and 2.) I used to speed waaayyyyy too much. I currently have 11 out of 12 points on my liscence due to speeding. If I get pulled over for speeding 1 more time my liscence is revoked >I'm a safe driver as far as skill, but I drive much faster than what the insurance company/cops/the law says is "safe"Never been in an accident or wreck of any kind (Not that I was driving in, anyways) but it's the speeding tickets that are killing me *Edit* I meant to say my liscence is suspended, not revoked.Hello, McFly? No offense, but what'd you expect with those huge limits (as I suspected) and what, 6 or 7 speeding tickets? Mind you, speeding tickets count as either 1 or 2 points (in CA at least), depending on how much over the speed limit you were going.All of this before you've even turned 20? Dude, $4k/year is expected, even reasonable, for you.You friendly neighborhood insurance broker,Psycho >EDIT: sorry for the tone of my post, but I get frustrated sometimes lol.

[Stang2Vibe]

I had a similar problem with my cop magnet Mustang. Not a single problem with cops now with my Vibe. I was in about the same situation with points. Only 3 tickets, though.I won't even begin with my gripes about my former insurance company, I'll blow a gasket for sure. Auto insurance is a total racket.

[Fialchar]

Actually, it's 3 tickets in the past year, but one was done by a state trooper that was a complete !#^%#$.. I was going 20 over the limit and he wrote me a ticket for wreckless endangerment, which is pretty bad If I remember right, that one ticket by itself was worth either 3 or 4 points And don't worry, I use a harsher tone of voice on myself when I think about how stupid I was when I started driving. =P

[shibaman]

I don't like ins. co. I had my home owners ins. canceled because I had more than 2 dogs. Of course they did'nt say that when they signed me up and took my $. Looking for home owners ins. sucks.I was very lucky to get back on with USAA.

[frostyGT]

Not to stray too far off topic...but USAA rocks!

[drummerdude]

i just got off the phone with my ins co, and they said the only way they would drop coverages a.k.a. non-renew, is if you started filing claims from hitting curbs or or parking curbs and damaging your car. they said "We will not drop you just for lowering the car"... so... don't hit anything or file a claim.