PCM recall NIGHTMARE

[navinslave]

I purchased a 2005 Vibe used/private sale about four months ago. The car has about 42k miles. After thoroughly enjoying it for three months, I received a recall letter regarding the PCM needing replacement. I took it in to a local GM stealership and had the part replaced. (This was a nightmare in and of itself that I won't go into). So, the new PCM is installed, immediately upon driving it after installation I notice a variety of noises and driving changes. (Stealership would NOT help me whatsoever because they say there are no codes showing up). Symptoms:1. Harsh shifting2. High pitched whining/chirping sound (intermittent)3. Sounds and feels like the car doesn't want to stop, right before coming to a stop4. Noticeable harsh idle (shakes and vibrates, sounds like a diesel engine)5. Overreacting acceleration from a stop, its like trying to control a wild pony. I have to very very gently apply the accelerator. 6. Overall sluggish performance. 7. Intermittent light fluttering sound, kind of like a wind-up toyAfter receiving NO HELP from first stealership, I took the vehicle to another GM place and they replaced the PCM AGAIN and said there were still no codes and really couldn't give me any answers. NOW-I am very confused and desperate as to what to do. I have taken the car to two different stealerships and two different private garages. Both stealerships act like nothing is wrong, one private mechanic said there was nothing wrong and another private mechanic said he heard a lot of strange noises and he would need about 300 more dollars to further investigate. This is like driving a completely different car-I had no problems before and was enjoying the vehicle. I am very upset over this, seeing as how I just bought the car and had new high end tires put on. I am a single woman, I get the run around a lot, not sure what to believe anymore. Anyone else having this problem? THANKS to anyone who can give me some answers or point me in the right direction. Good mechanics are VERY hard to come by around my parts.

[4azdmunky]

Hmm, are there any mods done to the car?shooting from teh cuff this sounds like either the PCM trying to re-learn, the wires going into the PCM are suspect (try removing the glove box and press on the wires going into the PCM and see if you get RMP change etc..), or some sensor is out but not throwing code. A lot of this does point to PCM. For example, I noticed a huge brake improvement when mine was repalced. The whine you are hearing, where are you hearing it from? Are all of the pulleys on the engine moving as expected? With the hood up, turn the wheel all the way and see if your belt stops moving.Good luck, post back, this forum is very good with support.

[4azdmunky]

Also, what happens when you disconnect your battery, press and hold the brake until the dash lights go out, and reconnect? Any improvement?

[GDVibes]

I noticed a similar affect with mine.My PCM module had died about 2 months prior to receiving the recall letter.First to second caused whiplash unless pushed very gently or very hard.Car had stalled out multiple times on the road. Would have cost me too much to replace the PCM. I believe I was quoted about $400 around here.. When I got the PCM replaced due to recall, everything persisted for about a week.I didn't notice any huge brake improvements like 4azd, but did notice better performance when taking off.The dealership I went to told me to wait it out a week and drive it. I believe they said about 200 or so miles for it to calibrate fully and be back to normal..After that 200, haven't had any issues. Idles lower, acceleration is back to normal, etc.Just some food for thought

[navinslave]

no mods. its is a base model-automatic

[navinslave]

I don't really know much about cars. Can you explain why this would help before I try to do this?

[navinslave]

the whine sounds like its coming from the engine. i noticed that the chirping aspect of the whine really matches the vibrations of the rough idle. could a rough idle cause a whine/chirping sound? almost as if something is vibrating really hard and making the sound. i will try to get out there tomorrow with my friend to look at these things and report back. THANK YOU

[4azdmunky]

The 1zz makes some interesting noises, which I have learned through trial and error, point to specific things.Like the Oil Control Valve failing will cause upper engine tickingA slipping belt (or loose pulley) causes all sorts of cool things (esp. with a SC)The VCV by the airbox (esp. with CAI) not in the right position causes a certain noise and CEL that is not related to the VCVa leaking intake manifold gasket throws all sorts of odd errors, usually with O2 sensorsa faulty ECT sensor messes up timing, and usually doesnt throw code (in what i experianced in the past)The pulling the battery thing helps reset the maps in the PCM, and is a good thing to do everytime you mod or change something that imapct air, fuel or exhaust. The PCM will get to something more stable quicker.I recommended checking the belt because I found the AC hose was rubbing on the AC clutch, and it made some odd noises. If the sounds was coming from under the dash, I would go look at the thermostat to the left of the starter on the front. And of course, this car is DBW, so any random grounding issues (at the battery, at the engine, and the PCM) will drive you mad. Keep posting what you are seeing, hearing, feeling and any hunches.

[navinslave]

It SEEMS like the car is driving a little better this week. (I am on about mile 200 since having PCM replaced TWICE) I am still hearing the windup toy sound (which can be heard from the lower center of the front dash).For some reason the chirping/whining sound is getting better with the rough idle improvement. Perhaps the rough idle was causing the sounds via heavy vibrations? The acceleration issue is getting better it seems. Hopefully not just my imagination!!! I am wondering...is it ok to just keep driving the thing with these noises if it seems to be doing better? I wish there was someone here I could trust in this town with mechanical issues!!! Anyone out there in the Memphis area looking for freelance work?

[navinslave]

Apparently I spoke too soon. For some reason the car was driving better yesterday and now today it is back to it's noisy self. I tried turning the wheel with the hood up and the belt still was rotating just fine. Today it sounded like an old beetle putput buzz combo. Not really sure what to do anymore. The car is directly effecting my mood though. Yesterday I felt great-today, sad again about the whole thing.

[lalswift]

I have an incredible nightmare story with my 2005 vibe with automatic transmission. In 2008 it started to shift harshly, the check engine light came on and my mechanic pulled the code P2716 indicating a solenoid/transmission problem. The car was off warranty but before I had any work done I called both the local Pontiac dealer and GM. Each said the same thing. There was no known problem and no recall. So I took the car to a transmission specialist and paid over $3000 for a new transmission. The car still shifted harshly and the transmission specialist did some research and found a Toyota Tech Bulletin from 2006 that described the exact problem. I asked Pontiac about this and they still denied that there was a problem. So, in 2006 Toyota was letting its Matrix owners know of the problem and Pontiac/GM was denying that there was a problem. This was also the time of the economic collapse and GM looked like it would go extinct. As a consolation prize Pontiac mailed me a coupon which was basically worthless. Now, in 2010 I get the recall notice admitting to the exact problem that Toyota described in 2006. The failure of the PCM caused extensive transmission damage to my car. Pontiac continues to deny the problem. Although since they now admit there was a recall on the PCM the settlement coupon issued when they said there was no problem is null and void. The situation involved with the first “coupon” no longer exists due to this recall. Everything has changed as a result of the recall and GMs admission of a defect. The right thing for Pontiac/GM to do is pay for my transmission repair. Unfortunately, they refuse to do the right thing. Their lack of integrity is truly astounding.

[4azdmunky]

crap, how frustrating for you. After 200 miles, it should have sorted most of itself out.If the noise is under the dash, the only thing I could think of is AC since the hoses run into the cab between the cab filter and the center dash. …hmm I wonder if your AC compressor clutch is failing. If it is catching or seizing it would drag on the rotation of the belt and cause the engine to idle poorly. I had one seize on my S10, it snapped the belt and halted my engine.Unless the sound under the dash is electrical, like a solenoid or a relay with bad ground cycling. If its this, then I would recommend pulling the glovebox, and press on the wires going into the PCM. These wires are sensitive, and I broke several dorking around with my emanage piggy back. And considering that was the last major change, it would make sense that the problem may be there. Is it possible that the dealership replaced your PCM with a recalled one and not a fixed one? Have you tried going to Pontiac corporate yet? If they frag your car, I would think you have legal options.Can you post a video with audio?

[navinslave]

I went out there today to check the PCM number and it looks as though the two screws which hold it in place are loose. one side it isn't screwed in properly, the other side there is a screw missing. could it not being screwed in properly cause any problems? i looked at the wires and pressed on them and nothing really changed. i added sea foam to my engine this afternoon as well. how long does it take to see any changes after using this product? Thanks for all of your help, I really appreciate it.

[BrettZ]

Jeez, I have an 05 base auto.. Now I'm scared to get this recall done..

[navinslave]

yeah, i really regret taking it in. it was FINE before all of this. maybe wait until GM figures out what they are doing??? yeah right

[4azdmunky]

You should see improvements from Seafoam very quickly, right after it clears out and all that white smoke goes away. Did you happen to get pictures of the PCM install? That would add to your case that the stealership is jerking you around.With that poor quality of workmanship, i am still thinking its with the wiring. You may want to re-seat the plugs. Disconnect the negative battery cable first and press the brake pedal to discharge all stored electricity first. Then re-seat each of the connections going into the PCM. There are 4 connections and they only fit in their respective slots, you cannot get them in wrong.

[samrmg]

I was driving my 2005 Vibe today and my check engine light came on and the car started shifting roughly. I immediate drove to a dealer and told them and also asked them about the recent PCM recall. They said the recall would probably solve my problem. I got a call a few hours later and they told me that the PCM oxygen sensor needed replaced also and that it was not covered under the recall. I got the feeling I was being stiffed and that they were double dipping GM. They told me it would cost me $320 for parts and labor. Does that sound legitimate? The car has been marvelous up to this point and it has 113,000 miles. It just is out of character since I have never had an ounce of trouble except for this recall issue.

[GDVibes]

One thing you could do, sam, is to have the dealership just replace the PCM module first. See how it runs, if it's still causing problems/throwing CEL's, then have the oxygen sensor replace.Would sold your fears of them stiffing you, and you'll be able to separately check everything.. Not so sure about the oxy sensor on the Vibe, but when my oxy sensor on my last car died, all I really noticed was bad gas milage and a little less performance.. Could be the same with the vibe, but we are talking about a car that's 15 years older then my current Vibe..

[jasonvibe]

truth is your ECM really does not learn. The ECM is priogrammed and That's all there is to it.This so called learmning thing has been spit out to customers for years . What the issue would be.. the perameters regarding the interprtation of the sensors to the NEW ECM are WRONG. AA...sensors not matched to ECM. ECM programmed WRONG. Many mechanics honestly believe this learning thing. They have been brainwashed. FACT is , within minutes driving your car should run properly. ASK yourself.DID your ECM need to learn the day you took it home as new off the showroom floor? ...NO. It drove fine.

[navinslave]

After putting in the sea foam i am noticing a little bit better driving, it sounds like the car has to crank more when i try to start it though. the engine is overall very noisy (much worse than before pcm install) some hard and delayed shifting when going at lower speeds and the idle is still rough, but not as bad as it was before sea foam application. i am going to take a picture and try to load it up here asap. dealerships giving me the run around. i guess it is time to find a good toyota person and leave GM out of this all together. seems they can't help me, they keep acting like i am nuts. i have noticed twice since purchasing the car four months ago, that there is the "rotten egg" smell. i'm not sure how this is connected to my issues since all of my problems started AFTER the PCM was installed. this has really got me down. i spend a couple of hours a day in my car and it is driving me CRAZY

[navinslave]

i remember when i first picked up the car after the second dealership installed ANOTHER PCM, that it drove like a dream for the first 5 minutes, and then the problems all came back. does this mean anything?

[4azdmunky]

Sensors or bad wiring harness. Is there a ToyDoctor in your area? I have had good luck with them for those things I cant do in my driveway.

[navinslave]

Took the car in to the THIRD GM dealership and they too are acting like nothing is wrong with the car. At least this place was a little more courteous than the last two I have taken them to. The mechanic rode with me as I pointed out the rough idle, harsh shifting and other noises and he said that there was nothing wrong with the car. I told them to keep it til morning and try starting it on a cold engine to see if they hear what I am talking about. After this, I am officially giving up on GM. This is ridiculous.

[blindman10]

I feel sorry for you and only hope my experiences aren't the same...my car (which is running great right now) goes into tomorrow or friday for the new PCM...

[navinslave]

Hey-Please let me know how your transition goes. If I could go back, I honestly would have never had it installed. I wasn't having any problems prior to recall. Good luck

[samrmg]

My PCM went bad a week after I received the recall letter, however, I hadn't read it so when the problems started the rough idling and the transmission shifting hard and the check engine light came on. I drove to the dealer and he told me it was probably the PCM but still charged me for a diagnostic test. They called and said in addition to the PCM, I needed a CO2 sensor which cost around $325. At the time I was suspicious that they were just gouging the bill on top of the recall. They called the next day and said the PCM had been replaced but the other part didn't come in and did I want to leave it over the weekend. I said no and went and picked it up. They told me to bring it back to replace the CO2 sensor. As I drove away the car still idled very roughly and made some weird high pitched noises but I had read the PCM has to acclamate. I drove it that evening and the next morning and it straightened itself out and is running beautifully again. The check engine light went out and I never went back to get the CO2 sensor replaced. I knew that whole thing was bogus. My car is running fine.

[KITT222]

Honestly, I'd never trust GM with my Vibe. Not after how they treated it to begin with. I go to Toyota for my parts, such as the OCV filter, shift-lock cover, and block heater. I got them all from Toyota Parts. I think I'd rather get odd looks with a Pontiac in a Toyota dealer than hostility that GM dealers are known for. I'm a GM guy, but their dealers sound terrible, according to what people have said. Too bad too. Try going to Toyota. Over the phone I tell them it's for a Matrix or Corolla. But I tell the guy at the counter how odd it is to be a Pontiac owner at a Toyota dealer. Anyways, give Toyota a try. Hopefully they can help you. Quote »CO2 sensorAre you sure you don't mean an O2 sensor? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's such a thing as a C02 sensor.

[navinslave]

It's Official!!! I hate GM. I went yesterday to a THIRD dealership and got another load of bull from them. A lot of it has to do with me being a woman, I am sure of it. It's by the book EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Smart %^& comments about how I should "learn how to drive" and "get used to it". I am NOT crazy, the car is driving totally differently-I have put over 1000 miles on it-I'm pretty sure that it would have "worked itself out" by now. The guy rode in the car with me as I pointed out all the noises,the rough idle and the high pitched chirping sound and just like the other two times, he acted like it was totally normal. I just don't get it. It sounds like a TRACTOR!!! It is driving me NUTS. Sorry for venting. I guess it's time to try a Toyota specialist.

[star_deceiver]

Well... time to test and see! Have your BF/brother/dad drive the car into the next GM and see what happens. (go along of course)Have you tried calling and complaining to the higher-ups? On the back of your receipt/work order they should list numbers to call if not satisfied.

[blindman10]

Well I finally got my car into for the new PCM this morning and so far it has been running just as it did prior to the service.The first time I started it the idle seemed kind of high, but nothing more than when I start after having disconnected the battery for service.

[2002sportside]

I waited for my coworker to bring his '05 in before I had mine done... his came out ok so I sent mine in yesterday. I drove it last night after my girlfriend had it all day, and all seemed fine. Have yet to really drive it the way I usually do though... Really curious why navinslave is having so many issues with it.

[blindman10]

I'm curious too, its really unfortunate. I hope you can figure it out!

[navinslave]

it seems to drive much much better in warmer weather. lately it has been above 75 degrees here and the noises are less noticeable. i don't know that i should worry about it or not now or just wait til they come back. no codes, no check engine light. glad others are not having this problem.