New and looking at used Vibe to buy

[mrodgers]

Here's my story. Feel free to skip down to the bottom if you want....Back in 2007, was looking for a new small SUV for Wifey to haul the kids around in. We saw the Vibe at a Pontiac dealer roaming around after hours hunting for vehicles to look at later. I'm quite against anything with GM's name on it. My opinion is, GM cars brand new off the assembly line aren't worth $100. The Vibe looked like a good "car" alternative to what we were looking for, but there was the GM thing (yeah, I know now, but didn't at the time so just hang on...) It was GM (so I thought) and was put out of mind.Ended up buying a leftover 06 Mazda Tribute (same thing as a Ford Escape.) Have had it for 3 years now. I inherited the high mileage Nissan Altima from Wifey to drive to work. Last year, I gave the Altima away to a family member and aquired a really high mileage Honda Civic to get by for a short time.Coworkers since I bought the Mazda have showed up with Toyota Matrix. At the time, I didn't know that the Vibe and Matrix was the same. I've since learned that, but still thought it was a half breed between Toyota and GM. GM has the most horrible driving feel of any car available with their dead steering and braking systems.Now I'm ready to replace the Civic. I'm a diehard Toyota and Honda fan. The old tired Civic was my first Honda and with my short experience with it, I can't see how anyone would buy anything else but a Civic after owning one for a while.... except for the price... and for the fact that in my opinion, there isn't a vehicle out there that can compete with reliability and dependability of a late 80's/early 90's 22RE motored Toyota 4x4 (I've owned 4.)So, I'm in the market for something used and another Civic with under 100k just isn't in the price range. I'm looking for a car like a Ford Focus or similar, but anything I look at must have a manual (nearly impossible to find.) I stopped to check out a Focus, Civic, and Mazda3 that I passed by sitting in a lot. Sure enough, all of them automatics. Over in the corner I spy a Pontiac Vibe (2004). Remembering the glance we gave them when looking for a new car 3 years ago, I figured I'd just take a peak. There sitting in the dashboard was a glorious 5 speed shifter! The Vibe is the last car I'd expect to find with a manual. I figured I'd come back just to give it a little test drive to see how bad the brakes and steering is, or if it is more Toyota than GM.So, yesterday I ran up to take the Vibe for a drive. Incidentally, I also found another one with a manual closer to work that I looked at but didn't drive. I also looked up the Vibe on the net and see that from what I can tell, it is all Toyota and nothing in it is GM. Out on the drive, it drove really nice. Power was adequate. I gave it a lot of wiggle on the road and suspension feels nice and tight, no wallowing around. Steering feels great and brakes feel great. No GM feel at all to what I was worried about. Shifter is really rough and notchy, but I'm 38, not 20 any more. I'm not looking for a fast shifting hotrod. Just looking for something with adequate power to run up and down the hills of western PA, which leads me to a question later on.I really liked the Pontiac Vibe. Aside from just a work runner for me, the car lends plenty of practicality to replace a lot of what we use the Mazda for, family trips up to Erie that we do often in the summers, running to the store as a family (I live 40 miles from anything, so a quick trip to the store is quite a trip.) This car can be a lot more versatile for using rather than the Mazda and do better on the gas mileage for us than just using as a work runner.**************************So, here's my comments, questions, and why I'm here....First off, what in the world do people do to their vehicles? This Vibe has 61,000 miles and my Mazda also has 61,000 miles. My Mazda looks brand new as it did when I bought it brand new. This Vibe had scratches all over the body, some of them quite deep and touched up. The interior I don't think there was a piece of plastic anywhere that wasn't scratched up like crazy. I'm getting rid of a 94 Honda Civic with 188,000 miles and even it is in better shape cosmetically than this Vibe aside from the Pennsylvania winter rust and corrosion. This Vibe example is definitely not an example I will choose. I'm hunting down another one.Ok, my 2nd thoughts. I've found a few manual transmissioned Vibes around, but spread out from my location. One of which looks to be a very nice all black GT version. Upon looking up the difference, I see it is 173 HP and a 6 speed in comparison with the base 130 HP and 5 speed. How drastic of a difference is that? I'm seeing on Edmunds.com that the GT is rated around 25 combined MPG compared to 28 combined with the base. Anyone extend that GT rating higher than that (I'm reading on the forum here numbers of 30-32 with the base)? We live in the boonies, so we rarely drive city style driving and real world MPG is usually much closer to highway than not. Example is, I average 35 MPG out of my Honda which I don't know the rating, but Wifey averages 20-21 out of her Tribute which is right at the highway rating (sometimes we manage higher than highway rating.)The base I drove with the 130 HP felt that it would be adequate. I run to work/store/trips up and down hills constantly. Currently, the old 100 HP auto Civic can't handle it, nor could my Tacoma 5 sp with optional higher gears in it, nor could my 150 HP auto tranny Altima, or previous underpowered late 80's/early 90's Toyota 4x4's. I'm looking for good driveability up and down the hills of western PA, so the 173 HP of the GT sounds really good to me. How much of a difference is there between the base and GT models of driveability up and down hills all day? I'm not talking hotrodding here, just would like not to have to shift down to 3rd to make the hills or give a 75 mph run at the bottom so cars aren't lining up behind me by the top of the hill where I'm slowed down to 45.Both models state 1.8 liter. Is this the same motor with some work done on the GT? Is it completely different motors? I've read looking around the forum here that the 6 sp transmission does bolt right up to the base model. What is the difference between 5th gear on the base and running 5th or 6th on the GT? Same between 5th and 6th or is 6th higher than 5th of the base? Just trying to get an idea before I bother travelling 100 miles to look at a GT model as anything with a manual is too hard to find, let alone a specific vehicle with a manual. With the 6speed, would you run around on 2 lane 55mph roads in 5th gear then toss it in 6th strictly for interstate useage or is it just more gears between starting out in 1st and sliding into 6th when you reach speed? Finally on the trans, the 5 speed I drove was very notchy, which I've read about here as well. Is the 6 speed any different, or do they just share the same shifter inside the car. I've read about the short throw shifter that folks have put on and have seen images of the difference that look drastic, thus that would be an option in the future I would probably partake in later down the road.I still want to look at other cars such as the Focus or Mazda3 (already know how much I love the Civic and would buy one in a heartbeat based on price, but don't know what other cars drive like. Focus could be a complete POS or the best car I've ever driven for all I know...) I think though, with the versitility of the Vibe over being just a work runner, finding another used example is very very high on my list. If not, I wouldn't have bothered subscribing to this forum. I have some finances to deal with prior to purchase, so I'll have money in hand in about a week and plenty of time after that to hunt down the right used example.Yeah, that was long, that was my story, I do like to research a lot before I purchase something that way I know I will be happy after purchase, which I always am. Thanks for listening and for any responses.

[kostby]

Welcome to GenVibe!I own a 2003 Base (130 HP, automatic). I average about 27 mpg (27.02 for moment for 4700 miles of driving in 2010) in real-world driving, 80% in-town and 20% interstate.130 is plenty of HP with an automatic for driving in relatively flat central Indiana. Be sure to drive an auto and a manual up & down the hills of PA you'll encounter to see if it is adequate before you decide.The GT is supposed to use premium gas. The extra ~50 horsepower all come above 6200 RPM when 'Lift' kicks in. The HP and torque figures below 6200 RPM are comparable to the Base. In other words, you really have to wind it out to hit 'Lift', and the engine has to have reached 'normal' operating temperature, before 'Lift' is available. In Toyota-speak:The 2003-2006 GT has the VVTL-i 2-ZZ engine (the horsepower rating varies from 180 for the 2003-04, down to about 170, depending on the model year) with a special cylinder head and camshaft build by Yamaha, giving the extra horsepower when another cam profile kicks in.The Base and the AWD version have the VVT-i 1-ZZ engine rated from 130 down to 120 depending on model year. The GT clutch (and possibly the Base) is hydraulic, and based on postings here on GenVibe (which represent a small but enthusiastic fraction of Vibe owners, lots of early GT owners had the clutch replaced by about 50,000 miles or sooner.That's all the comments I have time for at the moment. I'll post more later.

[lovemyraffe]

Quote, originally posted by mrodgers »I also looked up the Vibe on the net and see that from what I can tell, it is all Toyota and nothing in it is GM.There are a few GM parts. The radio is GM, and the A/C is GM.

[mrodgers]

Ah ha! Well, I prefer to usually toss a stock radio setup in the corner of the garage as soon as I get a car and the A/C, well, it worked just fine.Ok, I've read a little about the clutch thing, so, that is a problem with just the GT model because of the higher redline and power in higher RPM? After the comment about the GT not developing much power over the base until high in the RPM range, perhaps just the base is all I need. I do enjoy some spirited driving, but I rarely do jump into high rpms keeping away from the boy-racer image. Spirited driving and screaming around at redline are two different things of which I don't do the latter.Safe to assume clutch longevity is good on the base model then? Or perhaps the extra oomph if needed would be nice if it drives the same as the base in lower rpms. Either or, I'll just not be picky over if I find a base or GT. Alright, thanks folks. Have another to look at after work here. Not real fond of that pea green color though, but Wifey said she does like it.

[Wolfman213]

But the Envy is rather rare... the rarest of colors I believe.

[hamiltonfighter]

Quote, originally posted by lovemyraffe »There are a few GM parts. The radio is GM, and the A/C is GM.Are they any better in the Matrix? Are they interchangeable?

[SlammedNiss]

You never really state what your price-point is, but I have my 03 Xrs (Vibe GT) up for sale on autotrader. With just 44k miles on the odom, it looks just as good as the day I drove it away from the dealership. It does have the 6-spd w/ 180 HP engine too, and it's really fun to drive.

[mrodgers]

Quote, originally posted by Wolfman213 »But the Envy is rather rare... the rarest of colors I believe.Rare or not, that is FUGLY! :DI was going to take it for a ride, but it poured down rain as soon as I left work. My drive home from work was flooding everywhere. I do like the fake hood scoop though... Some black rally stripes going up into the scoop would look nice.Quote, originally posted by hamiltonfighter »Are they any better in the Matrix? Are they interchangeable?If GM still does the AC Delco garbage, anything would be better than that as far as the sound system... The one I test drove was pretty crappy, but then it also wasn't exactly stocked up with options. No power windows/locks, no cruise, radio I would imagine was as basic and bare bones as it got.

[mrodgers]

Quote, originally posted by SlammedNiss »You never really state what your price-point is, but I have my 03 Xrs (Vibe GT) up for sale on autotrader. Hmm, definitely out of price range. I imagine the Matrix gets more money than the Vibe does. I'm looking around the $8k range and I have only seen 2 Matrix come up with a $10k search on Autotrader.com. Seems $7,000 - $8500 is the norm around me for 2003-2006 Vibes.Good luck, that is one very nice and clean ride you have there. I hope to find a Vibe as clean as that. Thus far, they've all looked in worse shape at 60-80k miles than my 188k mile Honda I'm replacing.

[lovemyraffe]

Quote, originally posted by hamiltonfighter »Are they any better in the Matrix? Are they interchangeable?They are not interchangeable, and one is not any better than another.

[star_deceiver]

Welcome to GenVibe!!! The 5 and 6 speed transmissions have the same top gear but a diffrent final drive (4.31:1 for the 5 and 4.53:1 for the 6 I believe).

[DeClerq]

I have a base auto, so can't speak for the manual. We've taken our Vibe on many trips from Indiana to Maryland and back and driving through the mountains of W. Va, PA and MD and well, it doesn't do all that great. Seems like you've got to floor it just to keep up with traffic. Granted that's with 2 adults, 2 kids and all the luggage, so I'm sure it would do better in the hills if your going solo. Otherwise the base engine as plenty of power for around town and rural driving (which is mostly what we do).

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by DeClerq »I have a base auto, so can't speak for the manual. We've taken our Vibe on many trips from Indiana to Maryland and back and driving through the mountains of W. Va, PA and MD and well, it doesn't do all that great. Seems like you've got to floor it just to keep up with traffic. Granted that's with 2 adults, 2 kids and all the luggage, so I'm sure it would do better in the hills if your going solo. Otherwise the base engine as plenty of power for around town and rural driving (which is mostly what we do).Ditto - even with 2 people & luggage. Our 2007 SWB 3.3L V6 T&C takes most of the West Va. turnpike hills with cruise without ever downshifting from OD. The Vibe on cruise will drive you nuts from all the downshifting. But the Vibe uses 25-30% less gas so sometimes we opt to use that instead of the T&C for our 1,200 mile rt from Columbus to Wilmington, NC. However, I must admit the T&C is more comfortable as well.

[mrodgers]

I hear you on the struggle through WV and VA. We just got back from Disneyworld from PA in June in our Mazda Tribute with 2 adults, 2 kids, and all the luggage. It was definitely a HUGE struggle keeping up the speed through those hills. Had the cruise set at 70 I think and had to turn it off because the auto wanted to kick down to 2nd and get back to 70 at all cost. Turned the Cruise off and may have slowed down a bit on the uphills, but at least held 60-65 without the engine screaming at redline until we headed back downhill.So, sounds pretty similar performance to my Tribute (heavy and 200 hp V6 in comparison). Thus, I imagine the normal driving day to day would be similar also, except the Tribute has a really crap auto tranny and the Vibe would definitely have a manual (I won't pay $10 for an auto for myself.)I am heading out this weekend looking at other cars to get a feel for what there is to offer used, but still really liked the Vibe. Found an 05 with 44k on it about half an hour from work I may go check out. Pictures look much more promising in clean condition over these last 2 I looked at. Pretty color, darker blue, as well. $9995 with a KBB of $9865 retail and $7965 private. I stink at talking down dealers, but I think I expect a mere $600 for mine (KBB for fair cond.) and hope to then talk it down to under $9000. $8900 and I'd drive it away if the condition matched what the pictures look like.

[jake75]

18 months ago I sold my '03 AT Power Pkg 33,000 miles for $9,500 privately. Do a national search on carmax.com and see what their supposedly no haggle prices are for similar Vibes. Might help reassure you about the price this dealer is asking.

[mrodgers]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »18 months ago I sold my '03 AT Power Pkg 33,000 miles for $9,500 privately. Do a national search on carmax.com and see what their supposedly no haggle prices are for similar Vibes. Might help reassure you about the price this dealer is asking. Nah, I have no problem thus far about any of the Vibes I'm seeing price wise. Seems to be $7900/$8900/$9900 respectively for 03/04/05 years, which match right along with KBB. I have a max of $9k cash I can use. I'd be happy with giving up my Honda for paying $9k. The Honda is worth $600 in fair and $1000 in excellent condition. i figured it would be fair to expect $600 for the Honda and talk the $9300 remaining down to $9k. I just have $9k in cash to work with no matter what happens to my old car. If I get surprised and they offer $1k for the Honda, that's just great. It's all a numbers game anyways. Little or no value in the trade, high trade offer really only means the price of the purchase is lower.

[lovemyraffe]

Quote, originally posted by DeClerq »I have a base auto, so can't speak for the manual. We've taken our Vibe on many trips from Indiana to Maryland and back and driving through the mountains of W. Va, PA and MD and well, it doesn't do all that great. Seems like you've got to floor it just to keep up with traffic. Granted that's with 2 adults, 2 kids and all the luggage, so I'm sure it would do better in the hills if your going solo. Otherwise the base engine as plenty of power for around town and rural driving (which is mostly what we do).I love it when people back East talk about their mountains. I'm from D.C. and those are not mountains in the East. I live at 5500 ft and my commute to my office is almost a 3000 ft change in elevation. However, back to the topic, driving up hills is a BIG workout for the Vibe. On the way down to my office I get about 42 mpg, but on the way back up to keep at 75, my car has to be in 3rd gear most of the time at 4400 rpm. Don't let the lack of umph in the car deter you. I have carried large loads several times. The Vibe doesn't really like it but it can handle it. I routinely carry luggage for my wife, myself and our daughter, golf clubs for 2, and my Thule cargo box without problems.

[kostby]

Regarding an aftermarket head unit, check the Audio threads of GenVibe for more info.03-08 factory speakers are 2-ohms. If you get a 'Moon & Tunes' or 'Sun & Sound' car (bundled the Sunroof and a 200-watt amp under the passenger front seat) the amp doesn't like to play nicely with most aftermarket in-dash units. So if you go aftermarket, you'll probably replace the amp and speakers too.Enjoy 'the hunt'!

[DeClerq]

Quote, originally posted by lovemyraffe »I love it when people back East talk about their mountains. I'm from D.C. and those are not mountains in the East. I live at 5500 ft and my commute to my office is almost a 3000 ft change in elevation. However, back to the topic, driving up hills is a BIG workout for the Vibe. On the way down to my office I get about 42 mpg, but on the way back up to keep at 75, my car has to be in 3rd gear most of the time at 4400 rpm. Don't let the lack of umph in the car deter you. I have carried large loads several times. The Vibe doesn't really like it but it can handle it. I routinely carry luggage for my wife, myself and our daughter, golf clubs for 2, and my Thule cargo box without problems.I know exactly what you mean - I may be from the East, but I've lived in AZ and have traveled there several times. I know what we have aren't "mountains" to you guys I personally refer to them as big hills, 'cause that's about all they are. I find it amusing when I get to the "peak" of a mountain I'm driving over and the elevation sign is only like 2,500 feet. Makes me feel like I accomplished something.

[runerx]

Just for reference ,I purchased a silver 04 Auto, Base with the moon and tunes package, and aftermarket remote start for right about 8K. It was extreemly clean for a private sale, had ALL service records and had 58K on the clocks. I searched for about three mos. and haggled $500 off of asking price.Dave

[mrodgers]

Sorry folks, enjoy your Vibes. Nice cars, but I test drove a Mazda3 hatchback. I'm a driving enthusiast and the Vibe isn't half the car the Mazda is (no offense, like I said, nice cars.)Unfortunately, I've read about a premature rust problem and indeed, every photo showing a wheel well of a Mazda3 for sale had rust bubbles starting.Thus, I found locally a VW Jetta (was on my list to check out.) Not a hatchback or wagon, but that would have just been a bonus with the Vibe or Mazda. It's a 1.8T Jetta and WOW! Talk about power and get-up-and-go!The Vibe would have suited just fine, but just didn't have the excitement there for this enthusiast. 99% of my driving I am alone. I like to drive and though I'm not 20 years old anymore, I still like to drive spirited. The 130hp and the wagon style isn't going to do that nearly as well.Enjoy them. Nice cars and I've now seen some very nice looking examples on my hunt for a used car. If they had more power to them, I'd think about replacing my wife's SUV for one with an automatic, but that kind of power just can't cut it with an auto.

[star_deceiver]

A Jetta????? Well...Glad you found the car you wanted but I predict some expensive repair bills in your future.... nothing is ever cheap or easy with VW....

[lovemyraffe]

Quote, originally posted by star_deceiver »A Jetta????? Well...Glad you found the car you wanted but I predict some expensive repair bills in your future.... nothing is ever cheap or easy with VW....Agreed. I'm glad you found a car that you really like, but when those repair bills come in, it's gets pricey. We used to pay over $90 for VW ATF at our shop.

[ponta2147]

I've found that the '09 Vibe with the bigger engine has plenty of spirit to go around, but obviously not quite low enough in the "used" price bracket yet! Enjoy your car.