manual transmission noise

[lazytiger]

Hello all, I've been looking through some threads here about transmission noise but I'm not sure if my issue is quite the same as what I've read.My '03 Vibe has a 5-speed manual transmission. I just hit 90,000 miles recently. Never had any mechanical problems. A few weeks ago I started noticing a very faint noise while in gear. The best approximation I can give is that it's sort of a clicky-clack sound, like a baseball card on spokes or a train going down the tracks from a distance. It's pretty quiet; if the radio's up or the windows are down it's hard to hear. I first noticed it in 4th and 5th gears, but now I can hear it in all gears. It's most noticeable while in gear, not while shifting, not while coasting or revving the engine in neutral. The noise speeds up and slows down in sync with the car. It sounds like it's doing it a little (slower) even while coasting in gear, maybe even a tiny bit while coasting in neutral. Hard to say if that's just psychosomatic because I'm getting so sensitive about it.I already had a mechanic at Midas take a test drive while I was in for an oil change. He didn't seem to think it was a big deal since it was so quiet, but I'm not convinced. I'm going to get a second opinion somewhere that specializes in transmissions after work today.Any thoughts on the cause? Thanks!

[Petrucci914]

First off, you don't bring your car into Midas or any of those 'quick-lube' shops. Did you check the transmission fluid? Check the level, color, and smell. You could have some bad fluid that is causing issues. Recommended replacement is 100k miles, but I generally do it around 60k.Other than that, maybe a bad flywheel or bearing.

[joatmon]

new manual tranny fluid is already stinky, and a lot harder to check than on a manual (no dipstick) There is no factory interval for chaning the gear oil, but it is something I do about every 50K miles now.When the bearings went out in mine it made a whirring sound, not a clicking. Now I sometimes get a similar whirring sound from the tires, on some types of road pavement, and it freaks me out. The only clicking I get is when one of the cheap plastic rivets falls out, and one of the thin plastic belly covers flaps in the wind and makes a regular clicking sound at speed. That wouldn't be your problem, since you say it matters if it's in gear or not. A shop that specializes in transmission should be able to characterize the problem better, let us know what they say.

[lazytiger]

I'm not doubting that the transmission fluid of any car should be changed eventually, but the manual doesn't say anything about a regularly-scheduled replacement/check of it at any mileage unless you tow a trailer, which I don't. But when there's a potential problem... obviously the time has come.I might stop by the dealer to have them look at it, as I still need to schedule a time to have my door bolts replaced per that recall notice sent out a while back, anyway. The dealer always seems to be über-busy, though. They have the biggest shop I've ever seen... dozens of bays.Thanks for your help.

[lazytiger]

I went to the dealer over lunch, who of course was too busy to look at it right away. As I was driving, it definitely seemed like the noise was getting worse and the clickity-clack noise had turned into a more definitive grinding noise. So I went to Aamco. I'm sorry to say I don't know much about transmissions and the guy had an accent and was a mumbler, so I didn't really understand what he was telling me. What I do know is that it's gonna set me back about $1000, which ain't nice, but I figured it's about as cheap as it gets if they have to crack open the transmission. They're replacing the clutch and they're speculating something is rubbing together inside the tranny, which is causing the noise. Right now it's a fairly minor problem; gears aren't popping out or anything, but the rubbing together is causing lots of friction and eventually (maybe quite soon), that heat will make it explode and then the repairs would be way worse. Not to mention I'd be on the side of the road.I'm taking a 1,200-mile road trip this upcoming weekend, so not getting this fixed immediately would be pretty bad!Hopefully I'm not getting unnecessary work done... anything sound fishy?Thanks.

[lazytiger]

I got some more info (or at least understood him better this time), and the thing that was making the noise was the flywheel, just as Petrucci914 thought it might be. It has heat cracks in it so they're having it machined back into shape and replacing the clutch (90,000 miles ain't bad). They're flushing the transmission oil even though it looked clean, since I've never had it changed. At this point they see no reason to crack open the tranny itself. Good news, bad news... still $1000!

[engineertwin2]

$1,000 seems about right. But do you have any concerns about machining the flywheel vs just replacing it?Certainly, machining it is the cheaper option, but if you have heat stress contributing to cracking, it may be a wiser decision in the long run to replace the flywheel outright.The other gearheads can call BS on me because I know that machining is a common tactic, but it feels like more of a stop gap than a proper solution.On the otherhand, a new flywheel is $400. Got a buddy and a 12-pack? could get it done for ~$800 with a new flywheel.

[lazytiger]

Sigh... well, I got my Vibe back. Brand new clutch and machined flywheel, $1000 poorer... SAME EXACT NOISE. Before I had left and had an opportunity to hear the noise, the guy said that if I continue to hear anything they can replace the bearings for the cost of parts only. Seems pretty obvious that they just soaked me for all the labor costs up front and are waiting for me to come back for the bearings. How much should a set of bearings cost? They charged me $440 for the clutch parts, $540 for the labor, $90 to resurface the flywheel, and $100 to flush the tranny.So I have a new clutch, which, whatever, I guess isn't a bad thing, but it wasn't particularly needed. I saw my old clutch parts and the guy said they were in good condition. Do I have any concerns about machining the flywheel vs. replacing it? I'd say so. Or is the bearings? Or is this all BS?

[joatmon]

all I can offer is sympathy.Hard to be impressed with famous Toyota reliability when faced with repair bills that largeThe first car I ever owned had an auto tranny, it broke down far from home, and I got aamco to rebuild it, and I got a "lifetime warranty" on it. They had to repair it again twice after that for free, so if aamco offers a lifetime warranty still, and you plan to keep the vibe for a long time, it might be worth thinking aboutIf you do have aamco replace the bearings, I hope it is the bearings causing the noise. Doesn't speak well for their diagnostic skills, hard to know how much to trust this second diagnosis

[lazytiger]

After going on a road trip, I discovered some interesting behaviors of the rubbing/grinding noise that I hope are indicative of the cause. As I've said before, it gets increasingly noticeable as I go from 1st to 5th gear. The interesting thing is that the noise all but disappears after a long time of cruising in 5th. When stopping to pay a toll, I hear no noise in any gear as I get back up to speed. But then after a little bit of city driving, it returns.Any guesses as to whether that's the flywheel or bearings or ?? making the noise? Thanks.I'll be going back to Aamco for sure as soon as I have a chance. It would be nice to be armed with a little bit of info/insight beforehand if possible.

[engineertwin2]

Sounds like it could be a bearing, but I couldn't tell you for sure. I would just take it back to Aamco and tell them that they didn't fix the problem.We car guys can get ahead of ourselves when we take a car to a mechanic by saying "I think it's the..." That is an easy out for the mechanic because he'll replace what you asked him to. I've found it's better to say "I have a grinding noise in the transmission" and let them tell you what it is. Then, when you come back because it's still there, you have some leverage room for arguing that there was faulty diagnosis.

[Petrucci914]

Most likely the bearing. They probably didn't replace the bearing and other essential parts when they were in there because they suck.

[lazytiger]

They specifically told me they didn't replace the bearings, but that they would do so for only the cost of the bearings (no labor cost) if I continued to hear the noise. So, sounds pretty clear what needs to be done.Thanks guys.

[engineertwin2]

Out of curiousity, did they offer a reason why they didn't replace the bearings while they were in there? It seems like a natural upsell, but when you have the tranny torn apart, it's best to replace all the consumables and common wear items to minimize costs.

[lazytiger]

No, there was no explanation why. Just being lazy and/or stupidly figuring they'd fixed the problem. You're right, doesn't make much sense not to do it when it's a built-in upsell. They would have to order the parts, but that's easy enough...

[Neouka]

check your a/c drain hose, just per chanceIt's free to fix, anyway.I thought I had an exhaust leak and also heard whirring in gear... but just reconnected the drain hose and it fixed everything

[lazytiger]

Sigh... nothing is ever easy. I just spoke with a guy at Aamco and he wants to pull the transmission apart to figure out which bearings need replacing. Are you guys thinking of any particular bearing when you speak of replacing one? He said there's like 16 bearings inside the tranny, and one outside, the throw-out bearing. I assume that's the one you're thinking of. I don't know why they're making this so difficult. I'd think they'd try simply replacing that one before messing with pulling the tranny apart.

[Burn]

I have the exact same noise on my 03 Vibe. I was thinking about the transmission but I remembered a mechanic who told me a month ago that I should keep an eye on the bearing cause he changed a lot of them on matrix and vibe around 100 000km.I'm looking forward to know wath is your problem.

[danman48180]

My '03 vibe had same problem. Took it in and said don't worry about the noise. 10,000 miles later my trans went. couldn't rebiuld it, cost me $3000. They said it was a bearing that could have been rebuilt in trans if i had it done earlier(this was a different place i took it to.) Also , after the new trans they said for this specific trans on these cars, they recommend changing fluid every 25,000 miles. I have a friend that went through 3 trans every 90,000 miles or so on his '03 toyota matrix(same trans as mine) same noise same result. good luck i hope this helps

[mntn-biker]

I have about 93,000 miles on my '03 Vibe base model MT and about 3,000 miles ago, I hear a bearing noise when it is in any gear so I am assuming it needs a RR on the bearing. When I have my mechanic replace the suspect bearing(s) inside the tranny, does anyone know how many bearings (other than the throwout bearing for the clutch) he should be replacing and can anyone recommend a name brand replacement bearing so hopefully I don't need to do this big ticket repair another 90k miles down the road?Thanks - Mike