air conditioning

[fss106]

i've got no cold air. it seems as though it blows in the same temperature air that it is outside. i'm assuming i need to replace the air conditioner, but would be interested in any checks or tests i can perform myself. i've recently replaced the cabin air filter, and have read some about getting the system recharged. is there a way for me to tell whether or not it needs recharged? thanks...

[joatmon]

maybe you'll be lucky and it will be the problem in http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=1315

[Aussie Vibe]

I firstly apologize for treating you like an idiot, but sometimes it’s the simple things that get forgotten when people go trouble shooting.•Have the engine running (idle)•Have the fan selected to a speed so it blowing air•Select the AC to ON (light comes on) – check that the engine RPM increases slightly. You will also hear the compressor engage, if you have the hood open and the windows down.•Give it 2 min to allow the cold air to be fully cold out of the vents.Then come back to the forum and advise what you find

[fss106]

joatmon, tried that last week, it needed a little tweak but haven't noticed a difference in temperature.... aussie, i can hear the the engine surge, and i can watch the rpms increase, but i'm not hearing the compressor engage at all. i'm pretty much just blowing whatever the outside temp is into my passenger cabin

[fss106]

Got it checked out today. Need a new coil. The part is like $180. After labor and re-energizing the system and freon though it'll be around $550. Any opinions?

[star_deceiver]

1) Replace the parts yourself and recharge the system2) Suck it up and pay the $$$3) Live without A/CFor me it would be option 3!

[djkeev]

Quote, originally posted by fss106 »Got it checked out today. Need a new coil. The part is like $180. After labor and re-energizing the system and freon though it'll be around $550. Any opinions?Which coil? Why is the coil bad, what is bad with it? With labor rates pushing $100 an hour, it isn't hard to create a huge installation bill.Sadly to charge the unit, you need special tools to evacuate and then to charge it safely.What year is your car?Dave

[fss106]

compressor clutch coil. didn't say why it was bad, but i assume its not turning the compressor on or off. in this case, not turning it on at all. i checked the fuses, that was about as far as my expertise in A/C goes. I did talk with them about the problem and the service. They said refrigerant level was ok, pressure cycling switch was ok but the coil was bad, and the compressor was not clicking on. estimate was 1.5 hours for coil install labor, 1 hour for discharge and charging and about $40-50 for the freon. i've worked under the hood pretty extensively on two old VWs I have, but neither have A/C and i'm pretty much in the dark on this subject. It's an '03 Vibe GT w/ 135,000 miles

[djkeev]

Quote, originally posted by fss106 »compressor clutch coil. didn't say why it was bad, but i assume its not turning the compressor on or off. in this case, not turning it on at all. i checked the fuses, that was about as far as my expertise in A/C goes. I did talk with them about the problem and the service. They said refrigerant level was ok, pressure cycling switch was ok but the coil was bad, and the compressor was not clicking on. estimate was 1.5 hours for coil install labor, 1 hour for discharge and charging and about $40-50 for the freon. i've worked under the hood pretty extensively on two old VWs I have, but neither have A/C and i'm pretty much in the dark on this subject. It's an '03 Vibe GT w/ 135,000 milesHmmmmm,A few thoughts.How well does your mechanic know Toyota's ? I'm sure you are aware, the Vibe IS a Toyota Matrix?First, there is an AC control relay that has a history of being trouble prone on the older Matrix's. You can purchase a new one or swap it out with a similar one next to it just for a test, they are not magic "special" relays, just relays. Horn or Fog light relays should be the same.The 2nd item is the bolt in the center of the AC Clutch is known to back out becoming loose or totally falling out. No bolt, no clutch engagement thus no AC.I'd also ask about doing this clutch replacement on the car. (the coil is simply the electrical portion of the clutch, It is a electromagnet which clamps the metal AC clutch plate to the AC pulley with a strong magnetic force.) Most repair procedures start out by saying "remove the xxxxx from the car....." I can't tell you the number of repair jobs done on the car while the official procedures are to remove it from the car. I also can't begin to tell you how the customer IS CHARGED for the removal process when the mechanic actually didn't do half of what the official procedure specifies. I'd almost bet money, your mechanic will indeed do this repair on the car. Doing so saves him time and now he can make more money using the time you just paid for (flat rate) to do another flat rate job at almost $100 an hour!!!! It's accepted practice across the land. Flat Rate. Flat rate used properly can earn a good mechanic 15 - 20 hours in an 8 hour work day. He makes money, the shop makes money. The better flat rate guy you are, the more work the shop foreman will give to you making him and the owner money!! I wish I could magically create 7 hours a day and get paid for it as well!!Sure it won't be as easy but if you unbolt the AC Compressor and let it hang gently from a stiff wire so as not to tension the hoses you should be able to get in there, loosen the center bolt, Remove a large snap ring and pull off the clutch coil. This should save you a bundle of $$"s for you can now do it yourself if you are mechanical.Like I said, just be carefully to not stress the hoses when the compressor is unbolted. While I haven't yet done the Matrix / Vibe AC clutch, I've done many others without removing the compressor. It's just a LOT of work and money that you can avoid.Heck, I pull engines without disconnecting the AC, any part of it, with great success.DavePSWhile I've got an 07 and thus the 07 factory service manual, it should be very similar to yours in set up. email me and I'll find time to scan the pages and share them with you.PPS what are the old VW's you have? Air cooled or water pumpers? I've got several old Air Cooled units.

[djkeev]

OK, the rain has stopped, went out and popped the hood. There is plenty of space to replace the AC Clutch without removing it. Just drop the plastic splash cover, unbolt the compressor, twist it about and replace the parts and rebolt it to the engine. DO NOT Stress the hoses!!!The AC CLutch relay is in the relay box on the LF fender. The inside of the cover tells you what is what, the M/G CLT is the AC, pull that relay and replace it with the horn relay, does your AC now work?Let us knowDave

[fss106]

Thanks Dave, I'll give it a shot next weekend maybe-- so with this procedure there is no de-energizing or re-energizing? or will I have to possibly reenergize it once I have it back together?I have a '71 VW beetle convertible, and a '65 Karmann Ghia coupe. both of which are air-cooled.

[Aussie Vibe]

Good to see the forum is working here. Sorry I was out of the loop for a few days

[djkeev]

Quote, originally posted by fss106 »Thanks Dave, I'll give it a shot next weekend maybe-- so with this procedure there is no de-energizing or re-energizing? or will I have to possibly reenergize it once I have it back together?I have a '71 VW beetle convertible, and a '65 Karmann Ghia coupe. both of which are air-cooled.Yes, let us know what you find.If you do need a clutch coil, and if you do it on the car there is no discharging and evacuating and recharging process needed. It is an externally mounted part on the front of the compressor.My VW stable has a 74 Super Vert, a 69 Ghia hardtop and a 70 Ghia Vert. Just got rid of a 57 Beetle about 2 weeks ago, too many cars!!!!We are apparently of like mind! Are you on the Samba??Dave

[fss106]

update #1: its not the relay, unfortunately. that would be nice if it was the easy fix. I let the car run for about 10 min. with the windows down, A/C:on, recirc:off..... if anything it felt like the air blowing got hotter, not colder.I am on the Samba. love that site as well, although both my VWs are still in pennsylvania and I haven't gotten to do much with them since I moved to CO a year ago. I'm trying to ship out the '71 this summer-- the ghia is graciously being stored in a body shop for now.

[fss106]

was looking at the clutch plate, how much space i had, and how to remove it, and was wondering if the bolt that will need to be removed, the one that holds the clutch plate to the compressor and runs perpendicular to the serpentine belt... is that an allen key, or hex key or whatever... also it seems like the compressor will come off easy enough, but i'm wondering if i'll need to apply an opposite force to the clutch plate in order to loosen the bolt... i.e. turn the bolt counter-clockwise and turn the clutch clockwise...

[flowdam]

Interesting to find this thread, and still fairly current. I too have diagnosed the problem down to the AC Clutch Coil. Basically what I did is remove the connector from the Compressor and checked for voltage with a meter. When the AC button was not on, the connector showed 0 Volts. When the AC Button was pressed, the connector read just over 13 Volts. I have not yet checked the front bolt for any loosening though that is a good idea djkeev. The coil seems to be a weak spot on this Delphi Compressor system. fss106- were you able to get the replacement coil, and change the item yourself? djkeev- I would love to have those pages of the manual. One question though. Is a Delphi compressor standard on the Toyota versions as well? All of the AC parts replacement sites are giving me a Delphi part number DCCS20027/ CS20027 for the clutch and compressor replacement. Will I need a bearing/pulley puller to remove the pulley section or is it a keyed clearance fit? Also to anyone- would you know the part number for the AC Clutch replacement coil. Mine is a 2004 Vibe. Thanks in advance.

[flowdam]

I've done a little more research. It appears that all things are not equal on the Vibe and Matrix. It looks like they put the Denso compressors on the Matrix and the Delphi on the Vibe. Probably the same functionally, but do not look to be exact replacements for one another. It also appears that Toyota will let you buy just the coil(around $60), but GM makes you buy the clutch assembly for about $30-40 bucks more. I've also found that I probably need a clutch removal tool, but have yet to determine what size/make/model I should get. Any help here would be appreciated.

[flowdam]

Ok, from what I can gather, the Vibe has a GM DA6 clutch. I found multiple tools for this but the best deal, by far, was from bubbastools(I know, don't laugh as long as it gets here) on Ebay. The tool I got was by KD Tools part #3340 for $12 + $4.90 S&H. After some emails and info from fss106, it was agreed that I'll be the test rat for this project. So hopefully I'll have all items in hand to make this change out next weekend and report back here how it went. Oh, fss106 and I have also had some discussion on whether the above tool is needed. By the procedure in the tech. manual for the Matrix it does not appear to be. So, if someone has a different procedure for the Vibe and could email it to me, I would greatly appreciate it. As I said above, and have confirmed through research Toyota and GM separated on this item. The Clutch/Compressor on the Vibe is Delphi, where on the Toyota it is Denso and they do have some differences. You could probably change out the entire compressor and hoses with either type, but just changing the clutch, I do not believe, will be interchangeable. And everything I have seen on changing out a Delphi clutch states that you definitely need the above mentioned(or similar version) tool. edit: my email address: flowdam@yahoo.com

[fss106]

ready for the steal of a lifetime? bought the clutch online from newgmparts.com for like $110. (wait for it... wait for it...) so I called an independent garage that works on all makes and models. somehow, they referenced my '03 vibe, the a/c clutch and the repair time, and it came back as a 2 hour repair with not needing to de-energize the system or drain the freon, or any of that. they quoted me at $230. well they ended up having the car all day, needing to go out and buy the special tool to remove the clutch. putting about 6 hours of labor into it so as to not have to remove the freon (they ultimately hung the compressor just like discussed in this thread) and then giving me a 10% labor discount off their original quote because it was an inconvenience to me (which it wasn't, they just felt bad). all said and done i payed $193 for their work, and $110 for the part. the dealership who had originally diagnosed the problem, estimated the whole repair at $1100. i feel good today. and its not because theres cold air blowing out my vents.

[flowdam]

What a coincidence! I just emailed you a visual to do the repair. I can't believe the repair shop couldn't come up with a four inch puller. Oh well, sounds like an honest group of guys anyway. Glad you got it fixed.Once I had all parts in hand it took me about 4 hours total. I will say though that in a past life I have had a good bit of experience with pullers, snap rings, and the like, but I did go through a little frustration finding the right combination of sockets, and washers to get the clutch pulley off.It was a good feeling to have the cold AC poring forth from the vents. One addition to anyone reading through this. I did not end up needing the clutch removal tool mentioned previously. You will, instead need a small puller.Anyone else that would like the visual may email me: flowdam@yahoo.com it's too big for this site to allow me to attach (5.5meg)

[lorie565]

My AC stopped workn on me sat... started blowing out hot air... I have a 2004 vibe... checked Freon good.. the gauge said mechanical issure... so checked the relay... everything is workn except just blow'n out hot air... changed the Cabin filter... thinkn it might be the clutch... does anybody know how much they cost and where to get one from.. checked with Auto Zone and O'Reillys online says not available online or at store... thanks for your help...

[cq358]

djkeev ,in modern R134a refrigeration system, what is the ideal super heat out from the evaporator? I heard it is somewhere around 15F but just wondering...

Cus sometime people just top up refrigerant charge without really know how many pounds of juice left in the system (too cheap to do a full reclaim/vacuum).
It could kill your compressor (in 2-3 yrs) if you judge your charge amount just by look at the delta T between the outside ambient temp and the supply air Temp and without looking at super heat.

[Scotman]

Hi all! Yesterday my a/c stopped blowing cold air on my 2003 Vibe Base. The light on the dash comes on, the RPM's raise when I push the button but the clutch on the compressor doesn't engage. The fuse is good. I'm thinking the compressor clutch. This sound about right?
Thanks a lot!
Scott