Electrical Glitch -- But All Fuses okay.... ?...

[VibininFla]

Electrical glitch...Can't figure this one... maybe someone else has seen it and knows what it is.2008 Vibe, 34K miles. Got into sunday evening, started (and ran) fine, I have headlights, high beams, fog lights, all 4 turn signals, Hazard flashers, wipers, (front and rear), back up lights, brake lights ,interior dome lights horn, radio/CD player, power windows and sunroof....these all okay. DON'T have : front parking (courtesy) lights (the amber ones), rear tail lights, license plate lights, and the interior behind-console lights which glow red behind the center-console (behind climate controls, trans shift selector console, and behind the radio/CD feature buttons) and that little wheel-switch which sits just next to the outside mirror remote adjustment control which allows you to adjust the (white) lighting level of instruments and that red glow behind console that I mentioned isn't working either.Car (engine) otherwise runs and shifts fine. Every fuse in my interior fuse block I pulled out and looked at are all okay, as well as every fuse under the hood.... Repeat, EVERY fuse was pulled and all are okay, cabin and under hood. My 08 Vibe book and the fuse-block covers agree on what fuse is for what (and agree on amperage levels also). The book and fuseblock cover of the interior cabin box leads one to suspect the 15 amp "Tail" fuse here... if not that, than the 10 amp "Gauge" or 15 amp "Cig" fuse... but again, EVERY FUSE was checked and all are okay. I was by the Toyota dealership yesterday and had service guy look at it and he couln't figure it either .(this was bought used, from a GM dealer, I have bumper-to-bumper coverage from GM if I need work, but I was near a Toyota dealer and wanted their guys who get dirty working on Matrix's to look at this). I did NOT pull and test any of the relays... I have no way to test them other than buy all new replacements for each and swap them out one-by-one....Under the dash there are no connectors lying around unconnected...Logical to suspect the "TAIL" fuse... or "Cig" or "Gauge"... but these are all fine. Has anyone seen that dimming-wheel-switch go bad yet?,... this one is not operating... (but I don't understand how/why that would also affect the parking and tail and lisence-plate lights)...? Anyone recognize this?...thanks, mike

[VibininFla]

Electrical glitch...Can't figure this one... maybe someone else has seen it and knows what it is.2008 Vibe, 34K miles. Got into sunday evening, started (and ran) fine, I have headlights, high beams, fog lights, all 4 turn signals, Hazard flashers, wipers, (front and rear), back up lights, brake lights ,interior dome lights horn, radio/CD player, power windows and sunroof....these all okay. DON'T have : front parking (courtesy) lights (the amber ones), rear tail lights, license plate lights, and the interior behind-console lights which glow red behind the center-console (behind climate controls, trans shift selector console, and behind the radio/CD feature buttons) and that little wheel-switch which sits just next to the outside mirror remote adjustment control which allows you to adjust the (white) lighting level of instruments and that red glow behind console that I mentioned isn't working either.Car (engine) otherwise runs and shifts fine. Every fuse in my interior fuse block I pulled out and looked at are all okay, as well as every fuse under the hood.... Repeat, EVERY fuse was pulled and all are okay, cabin and under hood. My 08 Vibe book and the fuse-block covers agree on what fuse is for what (and agree on amperage levels also). The book and fuseblock cover of the interior cabin box leads one to suspect the 15 amp "Tail" fuse here... if not that, than the 10 amp "Gauge" or 15 amp "Cig" fuse... but again, EVERY FUSE was checked and all are okay. I was by the Toyota dealership yesterday and had service guy look at it and he couln't figure it either .(this was bought used, from a GM dealer, I have bumper-to-bumper coverage from GM if I need work, but I was near a Toyota dealer and wanted their guys who get dirty working on Matrix's to look at this). I did NOT pull and test any of the relays... I have no way to test them other than buy all new replacements for each and swap them out one-by-one....Under the dash there are no connectors lying around unconnected...Logical to suspect the "TAIL" fuse... or "Cig" or "Gauge"... but these are all fine. Has anyone seen that dimming-wheel-switch go bad yet?,... this one is not operating... (but I don't understand how/why that would also affect the parking and tail and lisence-plate lights)...? Anyone recognize this?...thanks, mike

[ou.grizzly]

I say use your warranty, but knowing the root of the issue and how to fix it is very nice also. I had no issues like you have stated on my 2008 before I traded it in with about 53,000 miles on it.

[VibininFla]

Thanks but it's not that easy, Grizzly....The GM dealer close-enough by where I bought it at and who certified it was a Chevy-only dealer and closed up--out of business. I want to find one which was selling Pontiac-and-something-else (Chevy, Caddy, Buick) and is still open..and have kept their same mech's who worked on Vibe's when they were selling them. They're not so close. Hoping someone here recoginzes this....

[joatmon]

it could be either the tail light relay or the daytime running lights module. The tail fuse feeds the tail relay, the tail relay is activated by the DRL module. The tail relay is easier to check than the DRL module. There is a junction block just above the glove box, a couple of inconveniently placed 10mm bolts gets it loose, then on top there are four relays, three of them the same. You can swap two to see if it fixes the problemDo your headlights come on automatically, or do you have to turn them on manually?

[VibininFla]

Joatman:This Vibe has daytime running lights which come on automatically when engine started and parking-brake taken off. Headlights I turn on manually. But again, this is not only the rear taillights affected here -- it's tail lights, lisence-plate light(s), front amber parking lights, interior instrument dimmer wheel-switch, the white light from speedo and tach, and those red glowing lights behind center console.

[joatmon]

The tail fuse and the tail relay provide power to the tail lights, the front parking lights, the license plate lights, and to the dimmer. The dimmer then controls the illumination of the HVAC controls, the shift position indicator light, the cluster backlight, the backlight for the emergency flasher and rear defroster switches, the radio button backlight, etc. Not just the tail lights. All the things you say no longer light up get their power form the TAIL fuse and the TAIL relay. The coil on the tail relay is driven by the DRL module. The DRL module may decide to turn on the tail circuit, or you can use the manual headlight switch to tell the DRL module to turn on the tail circuit. If the fuse is good, then it could be the relay or the module. Maybe the module is trying to turn on the relay but the relay is bad. Maybe the relay is fine, but the module fails to tell it to turn on. I asked if the headlights come on automatically because if they didn't, then it might be another symptom of a failed DRL module. However, the DRL module does several things, so if the headlights do come on automatically there could be a more limited failure still affecting the tail light circuit. So it's not a direct cause and effect, but something that might shift the probabilities of failure source one way or another. If the headlights never come on automatically, then it could be a bad DRL module and that might be a better first thing to try since it is acting up. If the auto headlights work, then I'd say check out the relay, because it's easier to get to and test.as far as you can tell, have there been any mods done to the car? Any extra electrical switches? Still have the factory radio?

[VibininFla]

Joatmon:yeah, as far as I know, no mods ever done....(at least I haven't done any, and it doesn't look like anything's been done) It"s one of the factory radios as pictured in my Vibe handbook. That pix you posted with that Tail Relay and the other two -- I can swap the 110v relay in to test, and i haven't had need to use it yet, so if that fixes the issue, I can run like that and get to a GM dealership to get a replacement at my leisure..... I suppose I'm removing the glove-box to get at this, just like getting at the cabin-air filter?And are there any other identical-spec relays under-hood fuse block--something else I never use?.. or can do without (rear window defrost/defog or wiper, perhaps) I can swap in?... (i'd get pulled over and ticketed for running at night without illuminated license plate) thanks, mike

[VibininFla]

"....a couple of inconveniently placed 10mm bolts gets it loose..."Man, you ain't kidding! The two accessable bolts I got out w/ no problem, but there's one at the back facing up that's impossible to get at, unless you hire a magician or a midget, or remove the entire dash-top ....

[VibininFla]

JOATMON:You Nailed it man, thanks. Got my fingers up and over the top of it... somehow that one Tail Relay was up, loose, just a little bit, pulled it down firmly, and voila, everything now works!!!

[northvibe]

sweet glad to hear it was a easy fix. Electrical issue can really suck to diagnose and fix.

[VibininFla]

North:really odd how it happened... It's not like I was doing any off-road stuff, no out of the ordinary jostling. And where this junction box is, above glove-box and facing up, no way it could have been accidently kicked or bumped against to loosen it up any. I've seen contacts blown off of swiches, most recently on an old vacuum-cleaner (too much resistance in the motor?, or circuit?...) , ... but this relay wasn't blown off... it just wasn't firmly seated. So how it was fine for the 10 months i've had this car till now and how it got loosened is a mystery...

[Wolfman213]

Since it was just the relay and not an "true" electrical issue, I'd say let that mystery remain unsolved and be thankful you didn't have search anymore lol

[northvibe]

maybe a previous owner was in there and didnt plug it back in tight... where is that drl mod happen? not in there is it?

[VibininFla]

That's a good question... you mean the mod to prevent DRL's from functioning?... I don't know (but would like to do that...mine have been functioning for the 10 months i've had it...but i'd prefer to manually control them). Is that as simple as removing a relay?... Yeah, perhaps previous owner had done that, and then the GM dealership where I got it from undid his mod....(?)

[AZMTFR]

Bump for good info. Had this same issue. Found this thread with Google. Went to check the relay and it was GONE! Ended up finding it in the glove box Plugged it back in and everything is back to normal. FYI, the relay will take out the interior lights (not the gauges), the dimmer function, the headlights left on warning beep, the parking lights, tail lights, and maybe some other stuff I missed.

Thanks for posting!