Matrix discoiunts, rebate

[jake75]

For what it's worth, today's Columbus Dispatch newspaper.Matrix Base Automatic - MSRP $19,910Sale price $17,943, rebate $750, net $17,193plus $250 doc fee, sales tax & titling fee. (usually about $25).I think a $250 doc fee is unreasonable but at least they are disclosing the amount - most dealers don't. The doc fee was $50 in 2093, and $100 in 2004. By 2007 it was up to $250. Virtually all dealers charge the same. I have read that the doc fee in some states is even more than that.

[Caretaker]

jake: there is no such thing as a State Documentation Fee. That is all a scam from the dealer. Tell any dealer to stick their documentation fee or you'll go somewhere they won't charge money for 10 minutes worth of work involving sliding forms into a printer and hitting the enter key.Much more importantly, why would anyone buy the matrix when GM is giving away the Vibe right now. $6,500+ off versus what Toyota is doing is night and day.

[jake75]

Doc fees have been around since the memory of man runneth not to the contrary. It is only in recent times that they have become so high (at least in Ohio).As a practical matter the $250 doc fee is just a way of low balling the advertised price. Ohio charges sales tax on the doc fee just as it does the price of the car itself. In a way it reminds me of the new practice of magazines adding a "postage fee" to their subscription price. You would have as much success getting the dealer to back off that doc fee as you would getting them to subtracting the advertising fees that are on the invoice.As to why anyone would buy the matrix when GM is giving away the Vibe right now, $6,500+ off, the fact is that very few new Vibes remain unsold. None are showing up on website dealer inventories in my area. I don't know how many Vibes were taken of "new" status by that special $7,000 GM offer to dealers, but I thought it interesting that right after that deal expired GM topped off my GM Card balance to $2,000 (from $249) - but that is only valid on a "new" GM vehicle - not one that a dealer "bought" with that $7,000 deal and now must sell as used.So, if someone really wants a new Vibe, I guess they probably are going to have to buy a Matrix.

[JetBlack09VibeGT]

But if you can land your hands on a Vibe, it's a much better deal in the long run than the Matrix with a paltry $750 rebate. I mean perceived Toyota Quality with a GM 5 Year, 100K mile powertrain warranty. That's a win-win in my book. And yes I said perceived quality, as in "Toyota, Moving You Forward... 100 MPH into a wall because the throttle stuck!"

[Caretaker]

... 100 MPH into a wall because the throttle stuck!..............he, he, he.....stupid floor mats

[star_deceiver]

There are still a few Vibes around here, but most are heavily optioned and in the $22K territory.They charge the Doc fee here too. I had mine waived simply by asking for it to be!

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by star_deceiver »There are still a few Vibes around here, but most are heavily optioned and in the $22K territory.They charge the Doc fee here too. I had mine waived simply by asking for it to be!Especially since you are in Canada I assume you mean $22K net after discounts/rebates. A heavily optioned $22k before rebates would still be a better deal than a lightly optioned Matrix as those extra options would essentially be free. Heck, $22k for a heavily optioned Vibe after rebates would still probably compare well to the price of a lightly optioned Matrix.But remaining Vibe inventory is sparse and the only way to find one is to do a city by city dealer search as Vibes are no longer on the GM website inventory.Once I tried to negotiate the doc fee down but was not successful and since the price was very very good even with the doc fee I backed off.

[star_deceiver]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »Especially since you are in Canada I assume you mean $22K net after discounts/rebates. Yes. But it's like shopping for the last chicken in the shop.... you're stuck with what you can find!

[vibolista]

The filing fee/ doc fee or whatever name dealerships use for this money grab, is a profit invention within the last 20 to 30 years. I never had a dealership try to tack one of those bogus fees until the mid 80s. It could have started sooner that, but I never saw it before then.Quote, originally posted by JetBlack09VibeGT » And yes I said perceived quality, as in "Toyota, Moving You Forward... 100 MPH into a wall because the throttle stuck!" Ouch. But really it's more like "Toyota, Moving Your Forward... except you should actually read your operators manual before you drive the car, so you have a shot at safely shutting down the car incase you or someone else doesn't read the operators manual to learn how to properly hook the mats to the little post hooks on the floor of the car so you don't push the mats up under the accellerator pedal, so you don't end up running your Toyota at 100 MPH into a wall because the throttle stuck! I'll go for that one. Operator error ("ID-10-T" errors) would be a tad lower if manuals were really read, and systems learned. Especially when safety is involved.

[JetBlack09VibeGT]

Unfortunately its not just the floor mats... Toyota is one of, if not the only manufacturer that does not implement the "return to idle" safety feature that is in virtually every other vehicle in the U.S. Simply put, if you step on the brake, the car returns to idle regardless if the accelerator is to the floor or not. NHTSA also said that Toyota will, in addition to these announced vehicle-based remedies, install a brake override system on the involved Camry, Avalon and Lexus ES 350, IS 350 and IS 250 models as an "extra measure of confidence." The brake override system would ensure the vehicle would stop if both the brake and the accelerator pedals are simultaneously applied. NHTSA is particularly pleased that Toyota is taking this additional step. The brake override system will be made standard equipment throughout the Toyota and Lexus product lines starting with January 2010 production of ES350 and Camry and is scheduled to be incorporated into new production of most models by the end of 2010 http://www.autoblog.com/2009/1...place/

[vibolista]

Oh, my! Another interconnecting system to mud things up in the drive train for people not bright enough to read the owners manual so they can learn how to shut the engine down in an emergency. Splen-freaking-did. Ever wonder why even small cars are getting so heavy and more expensive? ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control, Auto Lights, Cruise Control and the Vibe is one of the cars that have fewer systems aboard. Even so, if any of these systems fail, the repair bill is large. I like some of the systems, especially if they can be turned off. ABS is not one of my favorites. I don't have it in my Vibe, but my old Nissan Front to rear has ABS and it's a funky system that makes braking a pretty dodgy thing sometimes.

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by vibolista »The filing fee/ doc fee or whatever name dealerships use for this money grab, is a profit invention within the last 20 to 30 years. I never had a dealership try to tack one of those bogus fees until the mid 80s. It could have started sooner that, but I never saw it before then.. I am going to be (somewhat) kind to the dealers. I am not sure this actually ends up padding their profit since a dealer has to make a certain profit margin to stay in business whether that profit comes from the selling price or an add on such as the doc fee. That's just the law of supply and demand. If not for the excessive doc fee the adv price would have to be a bit higher. That's called "transparency".What is does permit is a bit of deceptive low ball pricing. In Ohio, a buyer needs to keep in mind that every advertised price on a new car is really $250 less than the real price. Years ago I heard that dealers were given an allowance from the manufacturer for "dealer prep". Then some dealers attempted to add a separate charge for "Dealer Prep". I am not sure that exists anymore. I think today dealer prep amounts to removal of protective packaging and a quick wash. Years ago they may have at least checked fluid levels, tire pressures etc.

[JetBlack09VibeGT]

Quote, originally posted by vibolista »Oh, my! Ever wonder why even small cars are getting so heavy and more expensive? ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control, Auto Lights, Cruise Control and the Vibe is one of the cars that have fewer systems aboard. Even so, if any of these systems fail, the repair bill is large. Thanks to the dumbing down of America car prices have to go up and its only going to get worse. One of the latest bills in the works will require auto makers to put the Lane Departure technology in every car which currently adds $2900 to the latest Infiniti's and Mercedes Benz line ups. So lets add up the additional requirements to the cost of our cars that our federal government has made us have...Air Bags: $1500Impact Bar (Side impact bar for reinforcement): $4005 MPH Bumpers (we went from a 3 piece bumper to a 150 piece bumper, how much did that cost?) Stability control: $700 (required for certain sized vehicles)TPMS (tire pressure monitor system mandated for all vehicles after 2008) $150 per wheel! Plus all the other crap that quickly adds up like...The glow in the dark trunk release handleLATCH for car seatsRear seat child locks (think police doors)Power window lock switch (good for crop dusting in the car and preventing passengers from getting fresh air)The ding-ding-ding Seat belt chime (yes, this is a NHTSA requirement) I'm sure there's more, but you get my point.