A real question about lights

[good vibes]

OK so here it is. I'm thinking a safety issue. Has anyone noticed that when you turn your car on at night it takes about 15 secconds or so for the tail lights to turn on automatically? It seems as if this would be a serious safety flaw for our cars. Take this situation: You get into your car at night and you are parked in a nose foreward parking spot on a fairly busy street. You proceed to back up and BAM you get hit because a person driving down the street slams into the back of your VIBE, and why? Because your tail light's aren't on. Who is to blame? OK so maybee this isn't the best description of a situation but seriously look at your car next time you get into it at night.I do expect some further discussion about this. I and all of my neighbors feel that this is a serious safety flaw that shoud be corrected by a recall or something of that nature.Send in the responses.Rob

[ragingfish]

Here's a thought. Turn on the lights manually.

[scherry2]

quote:Here's a thought. Turn on the lights manually.THAT would be to hard to remember. LOL

[good vibes]

yeah yeah yeah, that would be too easy. but when you get used to driving as night falls and let the lights go on automatically, then the manual light thing is just another thing to think about. IMHO the lights should go on (at night) when you put your car into gear. The technology is on my dad's S-10 pickup, why not put it on the VIBE?

[ragingfish]

This is the first car I drove with Sentinel, and seeing how unreliable it's been, I act as if it isn't there, and still control the lights manually.I can't explain why it was designed the way it was. Both my parents cars kick in automatically if it's dark out when you go into gear. But the reality is, our system isn't ideal...so learn to work around it...because if you WERE to get hit, the one to blame would be YOU, not GM...food for thought...Hopefully somewhere down the line a TSB will resolve it...but in the interim, I've learned to live without it...

[Geo]

I think Jeff mentioned something about this at the Michigan meet.This is a problem, and they are fixing it. I believe that there WILL be a fix for this: meaning entirely new DRL sensors and the like. The lights will go on right away at night, from what I remember. Hopefully there will be a SB about it.I disabled my DRLs, so I don't have to worry about it - but yea, that really bugged the hell out of me, having to wait 15 seconds. I think Pontiac now realizes that, and is why they will issue a fix to make the lights come right on (as it does with other vehicles) for those that want it.Back me up if I am right, or let me know if I am talking out of my (removed)

[NovaResource]

quote:Take this situation: You get into your car at night and you are parked in a nose foreward parking spot on a fairly busy street. You proceed to back up and BAM you get hit because a person driving down the street slams into the back of your VIBE, and why? Because your tail light's aren't on. Who is to blame?You are to blame because you backed out into a busy street without looking. Cars in the street have the right of way. Look first before backing out.On top of that, if you are backing out than you must be in reverse and the white back-up lights in the bumper will be lit.You theory is flawed. Stop picking nits.

[pmh013]

quote:This is the first car I drove with Sentinel ... I act as if it isn't there, and still control the lights manually.I agree. I totally ignore what ever the auto-control system is doing. If I ought to have lights on, I just use my opposable thumbs and turn them on.However, I do have to say that one time the sensor saved my (removed). I was leaving a very well lit gas station, and forgot to turn on my lights. As soon as I pulled away, it turned them on for me, about 2 blocks before I passed a cop.

[good vibes]

Geo: Thanks for seeing things my way. I would like to hear more about the fix, so if you or anyone else who may work for GM is out there please shed dome light on the subject. Thank you

[viberations]

i dont think all drl sensors need replacment, what i think gm will do is install or reprogram the b.c.m(body control module) to react quicker to night fall and darker situations, because the other thing that i dont think anyone has metioned is that when you start you car along with the dealy for the taillights you ALSO waiting for the other dash lights to come on, heater, radio,etc. that really pushes my buttons, i really never thought of the taillights. a.s.m, pontiac dealer in rochester ny

[NovaResource]

quote:i dont think all drl sensors need replacment, what i think gm will do is install or reprogram the b.c.m(body control module) to react quicker to night fall and darker situations, because the other thing that i dont think anyone has metioned is that when you start you car along with the dealy for the taillights you ALSO waiting for the other dash lights to come on, heater, radio,etc. that really pushes my buttons, i really never thought of the taillights.Don't let this problem push your buttons. Instead, push it's button (actually, turn the switch) and turn the lights on manually.[WARNING: The previous statement was sarcasm. Do not be offended.]The problem isn't with GM, it's with Toyota. It's their system. My fathers GP doesn't have this problem because it uses a GM system. From what I was told, GM is aware of the problem.

[good vibes]

ok as I said it wasn't the best example, however take this one the entire idea of having automatic headlights is to make them automatic. So that you as a driver don't have to think about turning them on and off, it happens for you ,much like the AWD system works without having to engage all 4 wheels with a lever like a 4WD vehicle does. Also a problem with the delay you do not have dash board lights, also an issue. Now I know many of you see this as my personal issue but I did contact GM about it and other people have made this complaint. As of now there is no recall in the making, It is also not a Toyota isssue, While it is a Toyota system, by GM taking the marketing rights to the car and making the Matrix into a Vibe, GM adopts Toyotas issues. So all problems associated with the Vibe are the sole responsibility of GM and Pontiac.

[Jahntassa]

I personally disconnected the light sensor yesterday... It's a cool idea, and if I had the stock sound system..I wouldn't have cared.My problem is, I have the DVDNav system. I have it set to automatically change the colors from day/night (it inverses so you don't go blind), and it kinda sucks to have it constantly flipping back and forth all the time. It'd be a pain to change it manually, as it's like..three submenus deep to change the colors..Cool idea, I think it's just a matter of the sensor being in the WRONG SPOT. They needed to put it up in the center of the dash or right in front of the rear-view mirror.As for the "automatic" concept? Eh..I bought a stick-shift. The only automatic I want is the CD Changer switching CDs.

[NovaResource]

quote:Now I know many of you see this as my personal issue but I did contact GM about it and other people have made this complaint. As of now there is no recall in the makingI agree that is takes slightly longer than I think it should but the bottom like is the system works. It takes my Vibe longer to get to 60-mph than I like, should GM make a recall about the engine not being fast enough? quote:It is also not a Toyota isssue, While it is a Toyota system, by GM taking the marketing rights to the car and making the Matrix into a Vibe, GM adopts Toyotas issues. So all problems associated with the Vibe are the sole responsibility of GM and Pontiac.Incorrect. It is Toyotas problem because things like the light sensor and the keyless entry system were dictated by Toyota. The Pontiac engineers I talked to told me that GM wanted to change both but Toyota wouldn't agree to it.

[KSNeptune]

I park my VIBE in a dark garage. I too noticed the delay when I was parked outside at night. But I think they put the delay in for this reason:Inside of your garage usually has white wall in front of your car.Garage door opener has it' s own light.If the sensor thinks it's dark when the car is first started, it assumes it's in a garage (true in my case, 99% of the time).So it starts a timer, waiting for you to back out before blasting you with lights reflection off the garage wall.So it works OK for me, 99% of the time. But as many of you have pointed out, it's something we users should be able to control. Something a little smarter. Us.Guess what? We can. Lights not auto-on soon enough for you? Override it and turn them on yourself.KSNeptune.

[NovaResource]

Actually, I believe the delay is because of the over sensitive sentinel. If the lights switched on instantly then they would switch on (and off) constantly as you drive in and out of shadows on a sunny day. The delay allows the system to determine of the darkness is constant or just a quick shadow.

[ragingfish]

The system used in the GP works well. When you first shift into gear, it kicks in right away...but doesn't have problems with shadows...too bad we can't have that.

[joatmon]

This is the first car I've had with DRL and auto headlights. I think it's a good idea, and I wish more people had it. I've seen a lot of people who don't have their lights on when they need to.I set my dash lights to full on during the day, and adjust them at night. I know that the auto hedlights will come on at some point, but I still turn them on manually whenever I feel that they should be on. Still have other vehicles without auto headlights, so don't want to get spoiled on the VIbe and be invisible in a different car, don't want to break the headlight habit.I've thougth about disabling the DRLs, but it hasn't been a big enough issue to bother with for me. Maybe someday I'll work up a nice inline harness that runs to dash switch. Lately though, I've been more upset with the sunroof halfway stop on close than the lights, so if I come up with some slick wiring mod, it would probably be in the sunroof controls first. (This in no way should be taken as a commitment to actually ever do anything about it, so don't ask if it's done yet.)I can see, however, where the current performance can be a problem for some folks. I imagine that it is realtively easy to build a system to perform as desired, the hard part would be to define exactly how it should perform so that it is acceptable to all users.

[NovaResource]

quote:The system used in the GP works well. When you first shift into gear, it kicks in right away...but doesn't have problems with shadows...too bad we can't have that.That's my whole point exactly. Pontiac makes an auto headlight system that works the way we want but Toyota dictated the Vibe/Matrix used their system. This is why I said it's Toyotas problem, not Pontiacs.

[ragingfish]

Why does Toyota care so much if Pontiac makes changes? It doesn't make sense to me....

[Geo]

quote:I've seen a lot of people who don't have their lights on when they need to.This is exactly why I don't like Automatic headlights - it makes it easier for people who SHOULDN'T BE DRIVING IN THE FIRST PLACE (those mentioned above) to get out on the road and (removed) us off.Driving is a priviledge, if you can't do it right, you shouldn't be allowed to. Here's how I do it:Sunny - no lightsPartly cloudy with sun - no lightscloudy - parking lightstwilight hours/night - full lightsrain - full lightsfog - full lightssnow - full lights ... that's all I can think of, it's common sense ... sadly, it seems to be just "sense" now because it's not all too common these days. >_<

[Robert G]

Well, Tuesday evening, for the first time ever since I got my Vibe, the automatic headlights actually went off after automatically going on. They went on like always, just after I started my car in the garage. I pulled out and like usual, they stayed on during my drive in partly cloudly weather (although they also stay on even in the bright sunshine). Finally, I noticed that they had gone off, but shortly thereafter they went back on and never went off again. I guess I'll just live with constantly driving with my headlights on. I know, I know, the car has DRLs, but those are the headlights only partially lit, whereas with the inaccurate automatic headlight sensor, the headlights are always on, fully lit. Seems like a silly approach to me, but who am I to argue with Toyota. [sarcasm alert]

[ragingfish]

quote:Driving is a priviledge, if you can't do it right, you shouldn't be allowed to.Spelling is a privilege, if you can't do it right, you shouldn't be allowed to.hehe. Just kidding Geo...

[joatmon]

quote:Here's how I do it:Sunny - no lightsPartly cloudy with sun - no lightscloudy - parking lightstwilight hours/night - full lightsrain - full lightsfog - full lightssnow - full lightsWhenever I see a moving car with only "parking" lights on, I think the driver must either be worried about wearing out the headlights, or they think they're too good to use headlights. The only time I use just parking lights is when ...uh ... I never use just parking lights.quote:Spelling is a privilege, if you can't do it right, you shouldn't be allowed to.If your going two call us on awl hour speling misteaks, your going too bee very bizzy.

[ragingfish]

quote:Whenever I see a moving car with only "parking" lights on, I think the driver must either be worried about wearing out the headlights, or they think they're too good to use headlights. The only time I use just parking lights is when ...uh ... I never use just parking lights.Agreed! quote:If your going two call us on awl hour speling misteaks, your going too bee very bizzy. LOL!

[sixspeed]

Love the lights. Best to drive with all your lights on at all times anyway!! I like the way they come on even on overcast days or if it is raining or foggy. Sensitivity is just right for me. Might even stick a piece of black tape over the sensor and never worry about it again. Car looks so cool with the fog lights on all the time.

[good vibes]

Well the sensitivity of the lights is fine for me. Who cares if they come on and off during the day, my only issue is what I started this thread about. The long delay when starting your car at night. AS stated earlier GM does have a system were the head and tail lights come on once you put your car into gear. It would be nice for this to be on our Vibes.

[joatmon]

It may be a problem for some people who do not understand the way it works. The dealer I bought mine from did not explain this stuff, and they knew so little about the car that if they tried it would have been all BS anyway, so there will be people who need to have full lights right away but won't. If you really think it's a safety issue, then call GM and the NHTSA folks who track stuff like this. For me, I'll keep on manually making sure I'm properly lit

[NovaResource]

quote:It may be a problem for some people who do not understand the way it works.They should read the owners manual.quote:The dealer I bought mine from did not explain this stuff,That's why there's an owners manual.quote:and they knew so little about the car that if they tried it would have been all BS anyway,That's why people should read the owners manual!http://www.mygmlink.com/pdf/go2content/ ... 03vibe.pdf(Joatmon, this was not directed at you. It was directed to all the morons who didn't read the owners manual first and then complain about things they don't understand.)

[joatmon]

I see both sides. On this particular topic, I don't think that the technical issues are that complicated and it's easy to deal with, but whether it's ideal or not, there are people out there who either won't read the manual, won't understand it if they do, or will forget that one part when they shouldn't. There's a lot of engineering in these cars to help people be safe, and I think cool vibes point is that it would be better to have the lights initially come on according to the sensor, and not have a mandatory 15 seconds DRL mode first. OK by me, but also no biggie for me either. It would probably require a replacement DRL module. Geo says GM will fix this. I don't know if its going to be a repair for current cars or a design change for future ones.It's easy to argue for personal responsibility, like it's wrong for people to sue fast food places because the food isn't 100% healthy. I can imagine scenarios where the current lights behavior could be a safety problem, but they seem unlikely. If there was an accident as a result of it, then hopefully whoever didn't take the personal responsibility to be properly illuminated would be at least partially at fault. Tough to know what the legal system would decide. I make sure my lights are on when they need to be so I don't have to find out. On page 2-43 of the owners manual, it says :"There will be a 10-15 second delay before the lights will turn on when starting the car at night"and page 2-44:"As with any vehicle, you should turn on the regularheadlamp system when you need it."The info is there, but maybe it could have been worded better, or highlighted as a "caution" like so many other things in the manual.

[Big_Red]

I have to agree with raginfish....if it is dark outside, turn them on manually. I always do, just in case.

[Geo]

quote:Whenever I see a moving car with only "parking" lights on, I think the driver must either be worried about wearing out the headlights, or they think they're too good to use headlights. The only time I use just parking lights is when ...uh ... I never use just parking lights.Well, DRLs annoy me. I can't explain it, they just do. I don't like seeing full on lights during the day, so I figure why commit an act that I know would annoy me if someone else did... it's weird, I guess it's just fun to be eccentric at times

[good vibes]

well I do not think it is an issue of reading the owners manual or not (although I did when I first bought the car) I just see this as an issue that should be corrected. and that is all. I was just curious to see what everyone out here would say about it.

[joatmon]

Today I noticed that when the lights are in DRL mode (half bright and no tail lights) the stereo controls and HVAC controls don't light up. 15 seconds later when the auto headlights kick in, the center dash lights up. So, if you are driving at night, you can tell if you are in DRL or auto headlight mode by lookinga the dash center. If it's lit - Headlights. If it's dark - DRL. Doesn;t really answer your initial concern, but at least there is a visual way to tell what mode you're in.

[ToolGuy]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »quote:Driving is a priviledge, if you can't do it right, you shouldn't be allowed to.Spelling is a privilege, if you can't do it right, you shouldn't be allowed to.hehe. Just kidding Geo...Your misspelled sig reads..."I willl NOT mod my G6...I will NOT mod my G6..."

[ToolGuy]

Nothing new in the system on this yet... This is from April, 2005.Subject: Automatic Light Control (ALC) Operation - keywords delay DRL exterior inoperative intermittent head headlight lamp night rear sensor #PIC3495 - (04/14/2005) Models: 2003-2005 Pontiac Vibe --------------------------------------------------------------------------------The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in the PI.Condition/Concern:Customers may comment that the Automatic Light Control system turns off and on too quickly or are slow to come on at night.Recommendation/Instructions: The Automatic Light Control (ALC) operation for the Vibe is different from other Pontiac Brands. When it is dark out, the system will turn on the exterior lamps plus the climate control and radio illumination lights after a 15 to 20 second delay once the transmission is place into gear. Also, make sure the customer is aware of the location of the light sensor which is located at the left upper corner of the instrument panel. It is easily covered by items placed on top of the dash and/or put into a shadow by either the A-pillar or decals on the lower left corner of the windshield.Note: There is also a green light indicator located at the bottom of the left instrument cluster that turns on whenever the headlights are activated. Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

[Mavrik]

if its dark and I climb into my car and start it, the headlights come on automaticly as do my tail lights... no delay for me...