Harsh Downshift on 2009 2.4L automatic

[Leed]

hi, i have not been hearing or reading from anyone on how folks are managing the harsh downshift problem on the 2009 2.4L aotomatics? there was a TSB on the 5 speed tranny stating that a reflash of the PCM will do the trick, it does not work from the couple of posts i dug up, and although i had the TSB done on mine it reduced but did not eliminate the problem. i can still feel the downshift as well as hear a click on downshift i think might be related. GM told me it will go away on its own after 5000-7000kms, that my driving habits have to be stored in the computer boards memory or some such thing, i don't believe it. matrix and corolla owners are having the same problem. anyone have any current info on how this is being handled?

[Caretaker]

Glad you could join us over here Leed Again, my 1.8 4 speed automatic has the same issue too. After 13,000 miles, I don't think the computer is doing anything to learn my driving habits. I get a bit of a lurch, especially when the card downshifts from second to first at stop signs. I can make it even more noticeable when I manually shift the car to 2nd and let it go to first on its own. My tranny also lumbers to downshift from 3rd to 2nd when I round corners and ask for power. It can be quite disconcerting. No answers; just company.Oh look, only four more posts and I get a set of ginsu knives

[Houston]

I notice the same problem with mine, but am waiting 'till I see that one of you got it corrected and what was done to do it.

[ou.grizzly]

Bet it is the powered brake assist... A lot of Toyota's do this actually...

[Leed]

have not heard about a TSB on the 1.8L caretaker. have you had any warranty work done on the problem?

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by Leed »have not heard about a TSB on the 1.8L caretaker. have you had any warranty work done on the problem? 1.8L is not at noticeable as the 2.4L engine. Once again, I am still thinking it is part of the brake assist. It occurs in the new generation Camry with the 2.4L.

[Leed]

GM knows its a tranny problem....they just don't know how to reprogram the computer so it stops the hard downshift. this is such a huge issue i wonder why it has not been dealt with? perhaps its not fixable? maybe a problem that would be to expensive to recall? anyway am going to continue to grind away at GM and my dealership and hope i get resolve. i love the car otherwise, but can't live with it not being close to pefect when i bought it new.

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by Leed »GM knows its a tranny problem....they just don't know how to reprogram the computer so it stops the hard downshift. this is such a huge issue i wonder why it has not been dealt with? perhaps its not fixable? maybe a problem that would be to expensive to recall? anyway am going to continue to grind away at GM and my dealership and hope i get resolve. i love the car otherwise, but can't live with it not being close to pefect when i bought it new. 2007 Toyota Camry's have done the same thing since 2006 when they were introduced... I really have not noticed a big issue when driving...

[star_deceiver]

I'd wager a guess that they don't want to spend the $$$, and it's a problem with the valve body and not so much electronic. But just like the rev hang with the stick, you learn how to deal with it effectivly!

[Caretaker]

I did take my car in for it. The dealer simply said that the TSB does NOT cover the 1.8 liter automatic. Furthermore, they could not replicate the situation. There definitely is a brake assist function when going down a hill and in 4th gear. The tranny will downshift to 3rd on hills and inclines. That is not what we are talking about here. The harsh downshift is predominantly from 2nd to 1st at stop lights. It also is noticeable (for me) when rounding corners and needing the car to downshift from 3rd to 2nd; the tranny hesitates badly in these situations. I can also get the tranny to "slam" when asking it to give me more revs and power between 3rd and 2nd. I experience this mostly when the air conditioner is on and the engine is straining.Like Houston, I am now waiting in the wings to see if a solution is out there and what can be done about it. It is clear that my dealer won't do anything for me.

[star_deceiver]

http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=38370Apparently they have new software to seal with it (how new, I don't know).Electronic it is!

[deafcon]

Yep, it's software. My wife's 2009 2.4 had the downshift issues. Flashed the new firmware and all is well now. The procedure is different from typical GM vehicles, but it is all outlined in the bulletin. Any GM dealer should be able to do it, only took about 15-20 minutes to get the toyota flash program and the rom file downloaded and flashed into my wife's car.

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by deafcon »Yep, it's software. My wife's 2009 2.4 had the downshift issues. Flashed the new firmware and all is well now. The procedure is different from typical GM vehicles, but it is all outlined in the bulletin. Any GM dealer should be able to do it, only took about 15-20 minutes to get the toyota flash program and the rom file downloaded and flashed into my wife's car.Did you notice a big difference?

[Leed]

yes i had this work done (flash) and although it made a modest improvement it did not resolve the issue. i have also read from other posts that it did not eliminate the problem. glad it worked out for you though. i'd like to hear if it gets worse again (fingers crossed your good though). thanks

[Houston]

I just got home from having this TSB work done on my 2.4 Vibe. My dealer isn't far enough away from here for me to know whether or not it reduced or eliminated the problem, but I'll let you know after I've put some miles on it. I don't drive all that much, so it may be awhile.

[deafcon]

It wasn't ever that bad on my wife's car, it only did it sometimes. Hasn't done it at all after the reflash. Service Information 2009 Pontiac Vibe - FWD | Vibe (VIN S) Service Manual | Bulletins By Category | Technical | Document ID: 2310454#09-07-30-010A: Harsh Transmission Downshift When Stopping After Transaxle Has Upshifted to 4th or 5th Gear (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM)) - (Jul 17, 2009)Subject:Harsh Transmission Downshift When Stopping After Transaxle Has Upshifted to 4th or 5th Gear (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM))Models:2009 Pontiac VibeEquipped With 5-Speed Automatic Transmission -- RPO MVDPlease Refer to GMVISThis bulletin is being revised to update the Warranty Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 09-07-30-010 (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle).ConditionSome customers may comment that they experienced a harsh downshift feeling when coming to a stop after the transmission has been in 4th or 5th gear.CauseThis condition may be caused by the PCM calibration for the 2-1 downshift not being optimized.CorrectionImportant: Before proceeding with the reprogramming procedure in this bulletin, the Vibe Programming Application MUST be downloaded and installed on the PC. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 09-06-04-006.A revised calibration has been developed to address this condition.Reprogram the PCM with the appropriate calibration as indicated in the Transmission Calibration Information table below.The Tech 2® CAN be used to retrieve and display the Transmission Calibration ID that is in the vehicle.The Tech 2® CANNOT be used to reprogram the PCM.When using a multiple diagnostic interface (MDI) for reprogramming, ensure that it is updated with the latest software version.When using a multiple diagnostic interface (MDI), verify that it is configured to the PC that will be used.During programming, the battery voltage must be maintained within the proper range of 12-15 volts. Only use the approved Midtronics® PSC 550 Battery Maintainer (SPS Programming Support Tool EL-49642) or equivalent during programming.Log on to TIS2WEB. In the upper right corner of the TIS2WEB homepage, click on the Help menu question mark icon "?" .The Help dialog screen will appear. In the left column of the Help screen, click on VIBE Programming Application and Calibrations .In the left column of Help , select the calibration file pertaining to the appropriate Model Year, Vehicle, and Symptom as indicated in the condition described in this bulletin.3.1. In the left column of the Help screen, click on the appropriate Download Calibration - .3.2. In the right column of the Help screen, click on the File Name and Symptom Description that is highlighted in blue .A File - Download box will appear. Select the Pontiac Vibe Folder and then click Save .4.1. Double click on the Pontiac Vibe Folder .4.2. Double click on the .zip file that pertains to this Bulletin .4.3. A Win-Zip Dialog box will appear.4.4. Highlight the .cuw file, then click Extract .4.5. An Extract - C: Dialog box will appear.4.6. Select the Pontiac Vibe Folder . Click Extract .4.7. When the file is saved to the Pontiac Vibe Folder, close the WinZip Dialog box.Double click on the CUW icon on the desktop to access the Vibe Programming application.ORClick the Start Icon.Select Programs .Select Vibe Programming Application .Select Vibe Programming .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-02 box will appear.9.1. Click File Open .9.2. An insert disk box will appear. Click Cancel .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-12 box will appear.10.1. Select Desktop in the Look in field.10.2. Select the Pontiac Vibe folder and click Open .10.3. The Look in field will change to Pontiac Vibe .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-06 box will appear (Connect to Vehicle).11.1. At select MDI or J-2534 device Tool , select ETAS MDI in the drop down menu .11.2. Click Next .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-08 box will appear (Establishing communication with the vehicle). The Device Explorer box will appear, listing all the available MDIs.12.1. In the Device Explorer box, select the MDI that is configured to the PC and is connected to the vehicle.12.2. Click Next .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-09 box will appear (Calibration Selection Confirmation).13.1. Review all of the information in this box.13.2. Click Next .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-47 box will appear (Verify Calibration ID Numbers).14.1. Review all of the information in this box.14.2. Click on the old calibration under the Target Cal ID column.14.3. Click Next .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-14 box will appear (Vehicle Preparation).15.1. Review all of the information in this box.15.2. Turn OFF the ignition.15.3. Click Next .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-15 box will appear (Prepare for Reprogramming).16.1. Review all of the information in this box.16.2. Turn ON the ignition with the engine OFF.16.3. Click Start .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-17 box will appear (Flash Calibration Update in Process).Wait for the update process to complete.The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-22 box will appear (Flash Calibration Update Successful).18.1. Review all of the information in this box.18.2. Turn OFF the ignition.18.3. Click Next .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-23 box will appear (Prepare for verifying vehicle).19.1. Review all of the information in this box.19.2. Turn ON the ignition with the engine OFF.19.3. Click Next .The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-25 box will appear (Establishing communication with the vehicle).20.1. The Calibration Update Wizard will verify the calibration that is currently in the vehicle.20.2. Wait for the process to complete.The Calibration Update Wizard Screen S701-26 box will appear (Programming successful!).21.1. Verify the calibrations from the Before Update and After Update columns.21.2. Click Print or Finish to complete the programming event.Transmission Calibration InformationVehicle TypeOld CalibrationRevised CalibrationBase Vibe3028000030280200Base Vibe3028010030280200Vibe GT3028200030282200Vibe GT3028210030282200Warranty InformationWhen reprogramming the Pontiac Vibe, a Warranty Claim Code will not be generated. Enter CUW00 in the Failure Code/OBDII field of the Warranty Claim.For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:Labor OperationDescriptionLabor TimeJ6355Reprogram PCM0.4 hrGM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION© 2009 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.

[vibenvy]

^ So, is that an updated version of the below TSB or is it the same thing just with more information?#09-07-30-010: Harsh Transmission Downshift When Stopping After Transaxle Has Upshifted to 4th or 5th Gear (Reprogram Powetrain Control Module (PCM)) – (May 13, 2009)Models: 2009 Pontiac VibeEquipped With 5-Speed Automatic Transmission – RPO MVDCondition: Some customers may comment that they experienced a harsh downshift feeling when coming to a stop after the transmission has been in 4th or 5th gear.Cause:This condition may be caused by the PCM calibration for the 2-1 downshift not being optimized.Correction:Important: Before proceeding with the re-programming procedure in this bulletin, the Vibe Programming Application MUST be downloaded and installed on the PC. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 09-06-04-006.A revised calibration has been developed to address this condition.Transmission Calibration InformationVehicle TypeOld CalibrationRevised CalibrationBase Vibe3028000030280200Base Vibe3028010030280200Vibe GT3028200030282200Vibe GT3028210030282200 If it's an updated version, I am definitely going to be taking mine back in as I have still been experiencing the harsh downshift even after having it re-flashed the first time.

[star_deceiver]

It's an update. http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=38370 Techlink

[vibenvy]

Okay, I figured because the date on it is different but I just wanted to double check before I go to the dealer with it printed off again. I will be going to a different dealer because I don't trust the one I took it to the first time.

[DaveB]

I have a 2007 Vibe (1.8) and it has the same problem. Although, it is most noticeable when it goes from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. I had the Check Engine error cleared and the problem went away for about 15 minutes, then came back (the light came on also). What is the brake assist option and how do I know if my car has it? If I buy the PCM from a junk yard, how do I get it programmed? I know a dealer can do it, but that is probably expensive. Can anyone else do it? Thanks.

[MichaelUhl]

I get that too, i have the same engine. It's surprising.

[03vibedriver]

The dealership reprogrammed my transmission when I went in to do the gas pedal recall. I can tell a vast difference in the down shifts at stops. I'm a lot happier with my 2.4l five speed auto vibe now.

[lowincash]

Quote, originally posted by 03vibedriver »The dealership reprogrammed my transmission when I went in to do the gas pedal recall. I can tell a vast difference in the down shifts at stops. I'm a lot happier with my 2.4l five speed auto vibe now. I think I need to get mine reprogrammed too. It's kinda annoying at times. I've learned to brake slowly when coming to a stop but still jerks quite often. What do I tell the dealer when I go there?

[vibenvy]

Quote, originally posted by 03vibedriver »The dealership reprogrammed my transmission when I went in to do the gas pedal recall. I can tell a vast difference in the down shifts at stops. I'm a lot happier with my 2.4l five speed auto vibe now.My mom and I also had ours both done yesterday while they were in getting the pedal recall done. I could tell the difference as soon as I pulled out of the parking lot in my mom's. They both shift so much smoother now and they don't do the lurching when the brakes are applied.Quote, originally posted by lowincash »I think I need to get mine reprogrammed too. It's kinda annoying at times. I've learned to brake slowly when coming to a stop but still jerks quite often. What do I tell the dealer when I go there?Copy this into Microsoft Word or whatever, print it out and take it into the dealer with you;Service Information 2009 Pontiac Vibe - FWD | Vibe (VIN S) Service Manual | Bulletins By Category | Technical | Document ID: 2310454#09-07-30-010A: Harsh Transmission Downshift When Stopping After Transaxle Has Upshifted to 4th or 5th Gear (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM)) - (Jul 17, 2009) Subject: Harsh Transmission Downshift When Stopping After Transaxle Has Upshifted to 4th or 5th Gear (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM))Models: 2009 Pontiac VibeEquipped With 5-Speed Automatic Transmission -- RPO MVDPlease Refer to GMVIS This bulletin is being revised to update the Warranty Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 09-07-30-010 (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle). Condition Some customers may comment that they experienced a harsh downshift feeling when coming to a stop after the transmission has been in 4th or 5th gear. Cause This condition may be caused by the PCM calibration for the 2-1 downshift not being optimized. They shouldn't give you any trouble, but be prepared in case they do. Be sure to tell them you have experienced the harsh downshift intermittently and it shouldn't be a problem.

[ponta2147]

Called the appointment desk at the dealership today to set up my appointment to get the reprogramming done, told them who I was, what car I had, and that I heard there was a TSB out to fix the harsh shifting issues that I had been having. The appointment lady was all like How do YOU know there is a TSB??????? *accusational tone of voice* And I was like uh, I'm a member of a forum, it's online, I have it right here... she transferred me to the service dept. who were a lot nicer to me! They were like "She didn't set you up with an appointment?" and I told them that no, she just asked HOW DO U KNOW!??@?!??#@# and I laughed and said, Uh, I have the internet?? They laughed and gave me an appointment.

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by ponta2147 »Called the appointment desk at the dealership today to set up my appointment to get the reprogramming done, told them who I was, what car I had, and that I heard there was a TSB out to fix the harsh shifting issues that I had been having. The appointment lady was all like How do YOU know there is a TSB??????? *accusational tone of voice* And I was like uh, I'm a member of a forum, it's online, I have it right here... she transferred me to the service dept. who were a lot nicer to me! They were like "She didn't set you up with an appointment?" and I told them that no, she just asked HOW DO U KNOW!??@?!??#@# and I laughed and said, Uh, I have the internet?? They laughed and gave me an appointment.Can't have people going around now and diagnosing their own issues now... That is how we lose money...

[ponta2147]

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »Can't have people going around now and diagnosing their own issues now... That is how we lose money... Well once I got transferred to the lady who actually runs the service department, rather than random phone answering appointment lady, she was way nicer and apologized for the other woman being an idiot. All the people in the service department know me, and they sometimes call me "The girl with the part numbers" because I've gone there with info from this forum for the splash guards, fog lights, and pedal recall before this. I was really surprised though, I expected maybe "Which TSB is this?" or something, but not the condescending attitude acting as though I'd have no possible way of knowing that. Uh, hello? The internet exists? I could probably find this information in five places or more within five minutes!?

[vibenvy]

Quote, originally posted by ponta2147 »Called the appointment desk at the dealership today to set up my appointment to get the reprogramming done, told them who I was, what car I had, and that I heard there was a TSB out to fix the harsh shifting issues that I had been having. The appointment lady was all like How do YOU know there is a TSB??????? *accusational tone of voice* And I was like uh, I'm a member of a forum, it's online, I have it right here... she transferred me to the service dept. who were a lot nicer to me! They were like "She didn't set you up with an appointment?" and I told them that no, she just asked HOW DO U KNOW!??@?!??#@# and I laughed and said, Uh, I have the internet?? They laughed and gave me an appointment.That's why we don't take our Vibes to the dealer we bought them from even though it's only five minutes away. A lot of dealerships don't like people who are informed, especially women. They want you to be unknowledgeable so they can try to tell you anything other than the truth. I am so glad I didn't experience that last week when we had the pedal recalls and TSBs done. That dealer was nice as could be and that is why I would rather drive half an hour than five minutes.Quote, originally posted by ponta2147 »Well once I got transferred to the lady who actually runs the service department, rather than random phone answering appointment lady, she was way nicer and apologized for the other woman being an idiot. All the people in the service department know me, and they sometimes call me "The girl with the part numbers" because I've gone there with info from this forum for the splash guards, fog lights, and pedal recall before this. I was really surprised though, I expected maybe "Which TSB is this?" or something, but not the condescending attitude acting as though I'd have no possible way of knowing that. Uh, hello? The internet exists? I could probably find this information in five places or more within five minutes!?You go girl !

[ponta2147]

Been here at the dealership for this 20 minute fix for TWO hours... with another hour to go! /FAIL

[lowincash]

Hmm ever since I posted last week about getting the tranny reprogrammed, everything seems fine now. I went to dealer last Friday and the service manager told me they don't have the tranny specialist guy there and to come back next week. Well ever since Sunday the car's been driving fine and don't have any harsh downshifting anymore. If any it's barely noticeable like before. Should I still bring it in again?

[vibenvy]

Quote, originally posted by ponta2147 »Been here at the dealership for this 20 minute fix for TWO hours... with another hour to go! /FAILDid they ever get it done for you ponta ?Quote, originally posted by lowincash »Hmm ever since I posted last week about getting the tranny reprogrammed, everything seems fine now. I went to dealer last Friday and the service manager told me they don't have the tranny specialist guy there and to come back next week. Well ever since Sunday the car's been driving fine and don't have any harsh downshifting anymore. If any it's barely noticeable like before. Should I still bring it in again?Personally I would go ahead and take it in anyway. Ours were doing it very intermittently, but I wanted to get it done anyway since it shouldn't be doing it at all.

[ponta2147]

Quote, originally posted by J_TO_ENVY »Did they ever get it done for you ponta ?I WAS THERE FOR FOUR HOURS AUGGGHHHHH!!!!!Good thing I had my laptop and 3G card with me to do work.

[vibenvy]

Quote, originally posted by ponta2147 »I WAS THERE FOR FOUR HOURS AUGGGHHHHH!!!!!Good thing I had my laptop and 3G card with me to do work.Ha! Sounds like when they did my mom's last week, but they were doing more than just the re-flash . How's it driving?

[ponta2147]

Quote, originally posted by J_TO_ENVY »Ha! Sounds like when they did my mom's last week, but they were doing more than just the re-flash . How's it driving? Great! Very smooth. Combined with new headlights it's like a whole new car. I guess it was worth the four hours... lol.

[1SC]

I just had this TSB done on my 09 Vibe this past Monday while it was at the dealer for an oil change. I really should have went to get it done sooner. A whole new car. It doesn't give the "kik" it used to give while beginning accelerating after a stop. The tranny shifts smoother too.