Chirping Brakes Ready for Replacement

[Mojo72]

My front discs starting chirping last week at approximately 24,760 miles since March 2007 when I believe that the previous owner installed "Super Premium" Aimco rotors and Morse brake pads. The rear shoes checked OK when I bought the car at 67,634 miles in January 2008, but I'm thinking that I should replace them along with the front pads since I don't know when, if ever, they were replaced. Does anyone have an idea of how many miles I can wait before replacing the front pads and a good brand of brake pad to use? I've also been getting a front shudder for the last year when braking at high speed (60+ mph) and want to know if I should have the rotors turned or just replace them. Any opinions and recommendations are great appreciated.

[Sublimewind]

If you can afford to replace everything, it's the better option... you could likely have the rotors turned, but it doesn't seem to last once the rotors are warped (the shutter you feel) No, the best option is to replace it all, and then do a PROPER pad bedding and rotor seasoning.. this is after making sure that the lug nuts are at the proper torque. I feel all three of those factors can make or "brake" a new set of gear.. The pad bedding, properly burns off the binders that hold the pad material together for manufacture... This is a plastic material and burns off rather easy... the rest of the heat "'sinters" the friction particles (welds) into a semi-solid mass.. Seasoning of the rotors is a heat treatment, it also builds a layer of pad material on the surface of the rotor.. almost like seasoning a cast iron skillet, except, you deposit a friction material, rather than a non-stick one.. lol.. The heat treatment also helps harden the metal and compress it in relation to the pad and rotation, something they can't do during casting or machining.. And finally, the lugs, if they are torqued differently, the tighter of the bunch can "pull" the rotor out of alignment, much easier... especially if you have to stop quickly and flash heat the rotor.. Personally, I also thing that any of the ceramic pads, regardless of brand work nice when properly bedded.. You can find details about bedding/seasoning on Bear Brakes, or StopTeck, I think Wilwood has a tech section.. Heck, i'm sure Mr.Google could come up with something.. lol.. All it is, is proper heating of the parts, you make a few hard stops, drive a little, a few more hard stops, drive more, a few more stops (often time seeing smoke by this point, or at least smelling it real good) than going for a cool down drive... You could try having the rotors turned.... Would you be doing the work or a shop? Sorry to ramble... lol..

[Mojo72]

Thanks for the pad and rotor tips and links. Back in Oct08, I posted the "Brake Flutter when Braking" thread in which I learned to torque the lug nuts to 76 ft lbs. It helped, but didn't solve the problem. I know an unemployed guy, who's doing brake repair out of his garage for cash and does a pretty good job for a lot less than a shop and especially a dealership. I can also get the parts at a 15% discount from a good local parts shop so I'm hoping I can save enough to have the radiator flushed before winter.Did you have an idea of how many more miles I can go before changing the brakes?

[pljenkins]

Okay, little confusing. So, according to the previous owner, he changed the brakes some 27K miles ago? So your car has around 90K now on it? How sure are you that he actually DID change the brakes, and if so did he properly bed them in (doubtful, since a majority of casual drivers have no idea what that even is).Shudder at high speed smacks of rotor warping. Even if they can be turned and remain in tolerance, you're still asking for trouble as the actual metal at each area of the disc will be a different thickness. Bottom line is, it'll be smooth, but your heat shedding characteristics are going to be all over the dial, eventually warping the discs again.My suggestion is, if at all possible, do the fronts yourself. They're easy and you'll know you did the work right. Plus you get an understanding of whats there, and a good time to inspect your brake calipers/hoses and suspension bits, grease boots and all those goodies for play, damage or leaking. If you find holes or leaks, it's time to address those now.when it comes time to get parts, try to resist getting cute. The 04 Vibe is a light car with adequate road friction with middle performance tires. It's a complete waste of money to put on performance caliber braking hardware on this platform. You'll run out of grip looong before you overtask your brakes, which is actually NOT a good thing for your BRAKES.Bottom line is, get a basic set of rotors, a decent set of ceramic pads, some anti-squeal brake grease, a wire hanger you can cut with wire cuts to make caliper hangers, an oil pan to catch the gobs of rust that will fall out of the old rotors, a can or two of brake cleaner and wire brush. A breaker bar and a torque wrench can come in handy too, though the job can be safely accomplished without those.Job is simple. Secure rear wheels with brake and chocks. Jack up front of car and PUT ON JACK STANDS. remove wheels/tires. remove the rotors. Believe me, they were only held by being sandwiched between the hub and the wheel. Yours might range from hard to pull off to fully welded to the wheel stump. Good luck.Once off, take a gander at your suspension and steering knuckle to make sure something isn't obviously broken (rubber boot around the strut piston is disintegrating on mine, but they work fine...dont care...once everything is off, liberal and I mean LIBERAL spray-down of all wheel parts with brake cleaner with the exception of the new pads. Next, remove new rotor from box, look at it for obvious defects, gee whiz at how clean it looks, and slap it over the postsfor the caliper, first order of business is to clean the snot out of it. Careful of the piston boot. boot should look servicable. using a ruler or flat iron and a clamp, back the piston to its rearmost position. remove old pads from their races, clean the races take replacement pad, grease the races with the anti-squeal goo, and try to get te shoe to line square in the channel. NEVER use ANY too on the braking medium to manupulate the positioning of the pad. Once in the chase, LIBERALLY brake grease the OUTSIDE portion of the pad. he BACK of the pad without the contact material. Contact material has to stay as pristine as the second you saw it.Other pad same way, greased well. then the caliper over the pads, contaact points of that thing greased also. Once that's all in, slip the assembly over the new rotor, tighten slider bolts to proper torque. push pads using caliper hadware to make pads flat against caliper face. tighten mounting bolts to their proper tightness.Other side, rinse/repeat procedure. Check for damage on that side... The one that is making noise sure as hell has taken some level of damage, especially if it's taken to warbling at some speeds. Make sure nothing is obviously cashed. If it all looks serviceable and the boots are all intact, repeat last steps on this side.***important before first test of the brake pedal****Make sure to attach the front wheels to the car and tighten them reasonably well. Remember, wheels hold the discs in place. Anyway, that accomplished check your brake fluid levels to make sure your not violating the high mark, hop in the car, start it up and work the brakes until they are firm and comforable. Turn off car. You're done with install.Now all you have to do is a short test to make sure they're grabbing properly and evenly, then its off to bed them in!biggest point. Don't the super cool/stop your car like a F1 racer type brakes on this car. You'll be disappointed as you go skidding down the road, wheels locked up!

[Mojo72]

OK, I'm back after being offline for the past week. Thanks a ton to both you for the great brake repair tips. Pljenkins,What are the torque requirements for the slider bolts?Sublimewind,How/where do I get the rotor seasoning done?