GM/Toyota in discussions on future GM product from NUMMI

[kostby]

Quote, originally posted by Automotive News »As reported on cnet.comMay 6, 2009 5:00 AM PDTGM seeks to replace Vibe at Toyota joint ventureby Automotive NewsAs it shrinks its North American product portfolio, General Motors is negotiating with Toyota Motor Corp. to designate a new GM vehicle that would be built by the automakers' joint venture, New United Motor Manufacturing Inc.If the talks succeed, they would lead to a new model for one of GM's surviving brands--Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick, or GMC--said GM spokesman Jim Hopson.The Pontiac Vibe crossover is now GM's only product from the NUMMI partnership in Fremont, Calif. GM said last week that it will end production of the Pontiac line, including the Vibe, by the end of 2010.Hopson said GM is talking with Toyota and NUMMI to identify another vehicle to be built at the former GM plant in Fremont."We're negotiating to see how best to utilize that facility," Hopson told Automotive News. "We're clearly not backing away from our partnership at NUMMI."GM and Toyota began building small cars together at NUMMI in 1984. In addition to the Vibe, the plant now builds the Toyota Tacoma pickup and the Toyota Corolla small car.The venture was designed to produce cars on a 50-50 basis for Toyota and GM, with each company getting 100,000 to 120,000 cars a year.But for many years, GM's take from the plant has been much smaller than Toyota's. In 2008, NUMMI built 271,202 vehicles for Toyota--149,341 Corollas and 121,861 Tacomas--and 70,839 Vibes for GM.GM has little in its product portfolio that resembles the Vibe. The Korea-built Chevrolet Aveo 5 and Pontiac G3 are five-door hatchbacks smaller than the Vibe."There's really nothing wrong with the Vibe," Hopson said. "Its only problem right now is that it is a Pontiac."Hopson said GM is not thinking of continuing production of the Vibe with a different brand badge.(Source: Automotive News)

[ColonelPanic]

That's interesting. I really don't see it being a Caddy with the Corolla's economy roots, and if it were a Chevrolet regardless of whether it would be a small sedan or a wagon type thing, it's going to eat into sales of their other future offerings (Cruze, and HHR replacement both.) Guess Buick it is! Yay, fake portholes!

[djkeev]

The Vibe could also become a Jimmy. A small economical "SUV Crossover" if that's the term they assign to it.Dave

[jake75]

I think the Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealers have all but been assured of additional vehicles to complete their offerings when Pontiacs bow out. If they are going to do that, it seems like it would make sense to rebadge an existing model than to spend the money necessary to design something from the ground up. Keeping something unique to GM like the Vibe would seem preferable to slapping the Buick name on a Chevy model. But who am I to argue with those GM executive decision makers who have done such a good job of managing GM the past several years.

[KNINE]

Quote, originally posted by djkeev »The Vibe could also become a Jimmy. A small economical "SUV Crossover" if that's the term they assign to it.DaveThe Jeep Compass comes to mind.

[kostby]

The latest update from the area...Quote, originally posted by San Jose Mercury News »Fate of NUMMI plant still uncertainBy Steve Johnson and Sue McAllisterMercury NewsPosted: 05/29/2009 05:37:26 PM PDTUpdated: 05/29/2009 05:37:27 PM PDTMercury NewsWith both of its corporate parents reeling from the global recession, the fate of the 25-year-old, pioneering New United Motor Manufacturing venture in Fremont remains shrouded in uncertainty.The huge auto plant, a joint venture between General Motors and Toyota that produces hundreds of thousands of cars and trucks a year, says it has heard little from either company, even as GM prepares a likely bankruptcy filing Monday and Toyota comes off its worst year in more than half a century.Just last month, GM said it would kill its Pontiac division, which could have a big impact on NUMMI. Besides producing the Toyota Corolla and Tacoma pickup truck, NUMMI also makes the Pontiac Vibe.GM CEO Fritz Henderson has previously said he hopes his company will continue helping to make cars at NUMMI. But GM officials on Friday did not return calls seeking an update on the plant's status. And in an e-mail to the Mercury News, NUMMI spokesman Lance Tomasu said nothing definitive has been decided about the Fremont facility. NUMMI is a California corporation and GM and Toyota each own half of its shares."Right now, we intend to continue with production as planned, which includes the Pontiac Vibe," Tomasu said. "At this point, it is unclear exactly how NUMMI might be affected by the GM bankruptcy."Toyota's commitment to keeping NUMMI operating isn't clear, either. That's because, like GM, the Japanese automaker has been ravaged by the recession. Due to declining sales, Toyota announced on May 8 that it lost $7.7 billion in the fourth quarter and suffered its first annual loss since 1950. Moreover, Toyota executives predicted the next 12 months could prove even worse.Toyota spokeswoman Zoe Zeigler was vague when asked about the automaker's plans for the plant."It's a little too soon for us to have any detailed information on that right now," she said.She also offered no assurances NUMMI would stay open if the Vibe is discontinued and the Fremont plant gets no replacement vehicle to build."It's something we're monitoring to determine what the most appropriate steps would be if that did happen," she said. "With the economy changing every day, I think it would be a little too early to say what direction we would take." The soured economy already has had a ripple effect at NUMMI. Because of Toyota's dwindling business, the company in January said it was shutting down the Corolla and Vibe production line for 12 days, and the Tacoma line for 16 days.Fremont City Manager Fred Diaz could not be reached for comment. But a person in his office who asked not to be identified said officials there have been told nothing specific about the future of NUMMI.When it was created in 1984, replacing a shut-down GM plant, NUMMI revolutionized carmaking in the United States. The joint venture helped introduce just-in-time delivery of parts, an intense reliance on employee teamwork and other innovations that since have become commonplace in U.S. auto manufacturing.If the 5.3 million-square-foot plant set on 380 acres beside Highway 880 was shut down, it would be a blow to the local economy. The factory — which built the Chevrolet Nova as its first vehicle — employs 5,440 people and does business with more than 1,000 suppliers in California, according to NUMMI's Web site.Nummi by the numbersEstablished: 1984Employees: 5,440Vehicles made: three (Toyota Corolla, Toyota Tacoma and Pontiac Vibe)Annual vehicles production: 250,000 cars, 170,000 trucksSuppliers: 3,600 in North America, more than 1,000 in CaliforniaPlant size: 5.3 million square feetSource: NUMMIThe only thing for certain is that there is lots of uncertainty.

[04Vibey]

GM has been ribbed for not making a version of the Vibe in their other brands, and I have not figured out for the life of me why they haven't tried. The Aveo and G3 are far too small to be practical for a family and don't even get that much better gas mileage. My Vibe is the first car I picked out on my own (and subsequently the first to not break down all the time.) My first car was also a NUMMI, a 1985 Chevy Nova (aka a Toylet by my dad, just because it was a joint venture between Toyota and Chevrolet). I loved that car too, it just hit its life limit. My husband test drove the Vibe with a skeptical mind and fell in love instantly. He is 6'1" and has plenty of head room, and I'm 5'1" and can see better in it than any of my previous cars. It is such a versatile car with great gas mileage and looks great too. I think GM would be dumb to not continue it. They don't have anything else like it with this fuel economy. I don't think GM ever marketed our Vibe like it should have been. I hope for the Vibe's sake, it doesn't die.

[ColonelPanic]

Toyota sez "GM, we'll help if you want" and GM sez... uhhhh....linkQuote »Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe told reporters that he hopes to continue operations at the NUMMI plant with GM, and even said his company would consider aiding GM in its restructuring plans if approached. But GM CEO Fritz Henderson has said there would be no need for NUMMI after Pontiac disappears. Currently, the NUMMI plant produces the Pontiac Vibe crossover, along with the Toyota Corolla sedan and Tacoma pickup. Henderson added that nothing had been decided regarding NUMMI at this point.

[moongdss]

when will these GM dummies pull their heads out of their butts?! Look at the sales numbers of the Matrix and see what the Vibe could have been selling at had they marketed it properly. GM never gave the Vibe any love and it has always been treated like the red-headed stepchild Toyota birthed.

[michaelgt]

Quote, originally posted by moongdss » when will these GM dummies pull their heads out of their butts?! Look at the sales numbers of the Matrix and see what the Vibe could have been selling at had they marketed it properly. GM never gave the Vibe any love and it has always been treated like the red-headed stepchild Toyota birthed. Where are the sales numbers for the Matrix you are quoting? Toyota hides them in with the Corolla, and does not even provide clear sales reports. If you look on their website, they leave off a month so that you can not identify sales for year. If you look at GM's sales reports, they provide month, calendar year, and prior year comparisons.As for selling more, you only want to sell more product if you make more money. Therefore, they may have reached the diminished returns. However, I am sure that you have spend considerable years researching the complex data to support your assertion!

[jake75]

I don't lose any sleep thinking about what GM will do with their NUMMI stake, or whether the Vibe will live or die. Face it, the Vibe/Matrix is a niche type of vehicle, with a sales potential that does not justify much of a promotional budget. Without steep incentives I also do not think it is any more than an average value.Maybe Ford will buy out GM's interest - wouldn't that be interesting.

[jake75]

from http://www.wheels.ca dateline Feb 3, 2009Toyota Canada Inc. says it sold 10,269 vehicles under the Toyota and Lexus brands last month, marking a return to growth after the company's sales volume experienced a steep drop in December.Toyota-branded models accounted for 9,681 of the company's total Canadian sales last month, up 0.3 per cent from a year earlier and a new January record for the company.The number of Toyota trucks sold increased to 3,806, also a record for January and up 7.8 per cent from a year earlier.The number of Lexus luxury cars fell by 35 per cent to 588, a decline that the company suggested was due to customers waiting for new and updated models that will be in showrooms this spring.The company, which experienced a 35 per cent year-over-year in sales volume in December, acknowledged that consumers are faced with difficult economic times.However, it said several of its models experienced double-digit growth over January 2008.It sold 2,612 Toyota Corolla models, up 35.2 per cent, 1,397 Canadian-built Toyota RAV4 models, up 37.1 per cent and 1,121 Toyota Matrix models, up 63.6 per cent.All three of the high-volume vehicles are built in Ontario.-----------------------------------------------------------------So 30% of the Corolla volume in Canada was Matrix in Jan. 2009.Probably useless info but information anyway.

[moongdss]

In my anger I didn't express very well that I would like to look at the sales numbers of the Matrix versus the Vibe. Anecdotally, I see about 3 Matrices to 1 Vibe on the road here at home, and that has stayed about the average even while road-tripping. In no way did I mean to say that I had already looked at the sales numbers.This still doesn't disqualify my opinion that GM never marketed the Vibe very well.

[moongdss]

thank you!

[jake75]

There are many ways to get data - I'd bet that the US Census data on imports of all kinds has public data on how many motor vehicles were imported by Toyota from Canada. If Toyota only exported Matrix vehicles to the US then you would have that info. You can bet that GM knows how many Matrix vehicles are sold.