Chrysler Down for the Count

[jake75]

Chrysler talks collapse, bankruptcy imminent: WSJBy Michael KitchenLast update: 12:20 a.m. EDT April 30, 2009Comments: 14LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) -- Talks between the Treasury Department and lenders aimed at keeping Chrysler LLC out of bankruptcy broke down Wednesday, making it all but certain the car maker will file for Chapter 11 protection Thursday, The Wall Street Journal reported late Wednesday, citing people familiar with the discussions. Administration officials, who have been braced for a Chrysler bankruptcy filing for weeks, say all the pieces are in place to get the country's third-largest employer through the court quickly, perhaps in a matter of weeks, the report said. End of Story

[Whelan]

But they will keep building cars unlike Pontiac and Saturn. Chrysler just was denied money from the big banks because of the debt payoff. But the government is not giving them more money just yet because it's all part of big O's plan to make them merge with Fiat. "Another great automobile brought to you by IAGM (Italian American Government Motors)"

[ColonelPanic]

BANKRUPT! Follow the link for a nice Q&A.And now a marriage with Fiat... At least Chrysler can finally get some small cars... Like this one... Fix It Again, Tony!

Attached files

[KNINE]

That was billions of dollars of taxpayer's bail out money for nothing. Way to go Federal Government. At least the Union vote is protected for now. Democrats wouldn't want to lose that. " The White House said it did not expect any reductions in white- or blue-collar jobs as a result of the bankruptcy. However, Chrysler employees who are not union members do not have any job security. The company can ask a judge for an immediate pay cut for its salaried employees, and can announce job eliminations and close offices, just as it can outside bankruptcy,Contracts covering members of the United Automobile Workers union and other unions will remain in force, until the company asks a judge to void them. U.A.W. members approved changes to their contract on Wednesday that presumably would mean the contract would stay in place. But if the company asked for contracts to be terminated and replaced with terms it can more readily afford, the union would have a chance to respond in court. Negotiations would take place before any cuts were imposed. This process could take months. "

[Tubaryan12]

Quote, originally posted by K-NINE »That was billions of dollars of taxpayer's bail out money for nothing. Way to go Federal Government. Anyone that thought that the money given to the automakers and the bank would insure that there would be no failures just isn't thinking. The only reason that money was spent was to slow the collapse. I've been telling people this since G.W. Bush asked for the 700 billion. When things come crashing down all at once, it is never good. It's always better to slow it down so that the market can absorb the bad news little by little. Anyone besides me notice that when we get bad market news now the market doesn't tank? I don't even want to think of what would have happened if the government allowed Chrysler and GM both go down at the same time the banks were going into the toilet as well.

[KNINE]

Quote, originally posted by Tubaryan12 »Anyone that thought that the money given to the automakers and the bank would insure that there would be no failures just isn't thinking. That's what we were told. I know Big Brother would never lie to me. We had to give that money to the automakers because we couldn't afford to let them file chapter 11. Too many jobs would be lost. Well look what's happening now. Chrysler going bankrupt and GM cutting thousands of jobs. Bush never believed for a minute the bail out money would help. He was just stalling so the Big Three wouldn't go down the toilet on his watch.

[Tubaryan12]

AQuote, originally posted by K-NINE » He was just stalling so the Big Three wouldn't go down the toilet on his watch. Absolutely correct. Any other president (except Hoover) would have done the same. actually, it was only a half lie: no one wanted the auto makers and the banks to all collapse at the same time. They knew that one or both would, but for them to happen at the same time would have driven the market down so low it would have taken decades to recover. Remember, we got to the 6500 mark in the dow with the bail-out. Just think where it would have gone if the big banks and the big 3 were all in bankruptcy court at the same time. With the banks begging to give the money back, it looks like the only money that will be lost in the bail-outs will be the cash given to the auto industry (which wasn't that much money vs what we spend in Iraq each year)

[jimincalif]

Quote, originally posted by Tubaryan12 »Remember, we got to the 6500 mark in the dow with the bail-out. Just think where it would have gone if the big banks and the big 3 were all in bankruptcy court at the same time. We'll never know, but it wouldn't have necessarily been any better without the bailouts. The govt is shooting from the hip and that creates uncertainty. Nothing spooks market like uncertainty. And Obama's trashing the Chrysler creditors yesterday for performing their fiduciary duty piles it on. It undermines property rights and the rule of law, creating more uncertainty and raising the cost of capital for other company's bond issues, will especially hurt companies that are unionized, investors will assess higher political risk of their legal rights being overridden by the administration, and demand higher returns to compensate for that risk.Quote, originally posted by Tubaryan12 » With the banks begging to give the money back, it looks like the only money that will be lost in the bail-outs will be the cash given to the auto industry (which wasn't that much money vs what we spend in Iraq each year) Don't you and I wish. According to CNBC the total bailout bill so far is $7.36 trillion, much of witch is in the form of Fed lending and guarantees, backing of money market funds, expanded discount window lending, recapitalization of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, FHA, Bear Steanrs, Citigroup, etc. The banks aren't giving this back, just the TARP money which is less than $700 billion. And more bailouts are still to come. For example Federal government's Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp that guarantees pension plans will take a hit from the Chrysler/GM bankruptcies and it is already in deficit.

[KNINE]

I always get a chuckle out of people complaining about the spending in Iraq. It's usually Democrats.First of all, the fed is allowed to spend money to fight wars under the Constitution. Nowhere does it say anything about bailing out private businesses of any kind.Second of all, at least 40% of every budget passed to fund the war was pure pork, having nothing to do with war funding. The Democrats helped pass every war budget, so they have little room to complain. But I don't want this to turn into an argument about the Iraq war which , by the way, is still well funded by Democrats.

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by K-NINE » . . .at least 40% of every budget passed to fund the war was pure pork, having nothing to do with war funding. Yes and the lemmings keep voting them back for another term.I have been so ticked the past decade that I always vote against whoever is in. Maybe that's stupid as well but I feel better when I do it.

[joatmon]

What bothers me about times like these are the people who seem actually happy that a US automaker has failed, or is failing. It's like some sort of personal victory for them., and they bad mouth the company, the executives, the unions, anybody involved. I have a hard time seeing past the huge number of people who's lives are totally messed up. And I wouldn't mind owning one of the new Chargers, but can't afford to buy or feed it.

[jimincalif]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »I have been so ticked the past decade that I always vote against whoever is in. Maybe that's stupid as well but I feel better when I do it.Actually I think this is a pretty good default strategy. During one election cycle in the late 70s I had a bumper sticker on my car that said "Re-elect Nobody". Imagine how the govt might actually revert to being a "govt of the people by the people for the people" if in just one election cycle we had 99% of the incumbents tossed out, instead of 99% re-elected!Regardless of which party was on which side of this turnover, it would sure get their attention.

[KNINE]

Well just for the record, I DO NOT want the American car companies to fail. I was only in favor of chapter 11 because I didn't feel the bailouts were solving the problems that got the big three into this mess. It makes me sick to see Chrysler being bought by Fiat. I'll miss Pontiac. I hope GM can survive.

[KNINE]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »Yes and the lemmings keep voting them back for another term.I have been so ticked the past decade that I always vote against whoever is in. Maybe that's stupid as well but I feel better when I do it.I'm fed up with the whole lot of them myself. I'm a big advocate of term limits. I've been looking for alternative candidates to vote for.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by K-NINE »Well just for the record, I DO NOT want the American car companies to fail. I know you well enough to fully understand that is quite true, and I wasn't saying anything about anybody here, just some of the other forums I visit, some folks seem unusually glad to see them go down.

[Tubaryan12]

Quote, originally posted by jimincalif »The banks aren't giving this back, just the TARP money which is less than $700 billion. Quote, originally posted by K-NINE »I always get a chuckle out of people complaining about the spending in Iraq. I guess I should have been more clear. That's all I was talking about was the TARP money and comparing it to Iraq spending. I have no complaint with Iraq spending, I was only pointing out that it is much more than what we have given the auto makers in TARP money. Spend lots of money overseas to fight a war and folks wave the flag....spend much less money here trying to save American jobs and folks cry the blues. I just don't get it.