RIP Pontiac

[abbotlex]

It's been speculated in the past. Might actually be happening this time. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...=home

[gr8vibe]

It HAS happened.Check it out - http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=37100

[mspalmer]

It is not official yet, so there is hope:http://freep.com/article/20090...50325from Saturday morning's Detroit Free Press

[jake75]

Columbus, OH:A month or so ago Dave Gill Pontiac-GMC acquired the business of a nearby Chevy dealership and became Dave Gill Chevrolet-Pontiac-GMC. Local press speculation was that the next step was a transfer of the Pontiac-GMC busienss to a nearby Buick dealer. Nothing in the news but today's auto ads, and a check of their websites, confirm that has happened. [Since the Buick dealer is the only Immke dealership still owned by that family I thought they might just sell their Buick business to Dave Gill and Gill would have Chevrolet-Buick-GMC. Maybe that will happen next. Who knows these days.]So where do I take my 2009 Vibe for service? I always liked the folks at Dave Gill. They ought to remember how to change the oil in a Vibe. I suppose it was a win-win situation for these dealers. With Pontiac on the way out Gill would have been left with GMC trucks. The Buick dealer gets a truck line.

[jake75]

Thinking about the future of the Vibe, I suspect that even if bankruptcy would provide them an out, that GM would want to continue the Nummi joint venture and that if Toyota remains interested in marketing the Matrix that GM will find a home for their version - probably as a Chevy.While GM announced a 9 week closing of their U.S. plants, that probably does not include the NUMMI joint venture plant.

[NUBlackshirts]

Sad, sad day indeed. :-(Including my Vibe, our last 3 car purchases (Sunfire, Bonneville, Vibe GT) were Ponchos. But when we traded in my wife's Sunfire this time, we went Ford. Pontiac just didn't have anything we were really interested in. I love the G8, but that was out of the question for her. And I just don't care for the new Vibes.Always loved Pontiac. You long time members have heard about my first car...a 1977 Firebird Formula that I used to race and loved it dearly. And, maybe someday I can get a bigger garage so my folks in Reno don't have to store my 1993 Trans Am for me.

[jimincalif]

Definitely a shame. I assume the Vibe built at NUMMI counts in their CAFE numbers. And with GM product decisions being made politically, the Vibe with its fuel economy and UAW plant should be a keeper. But who knows?

[PopeyeFAFL]

Sad to see the Pontiac brand, mostly for the Vibe.Now does some of you knows, what is worst as far as re-sale value:A- You own a car having the date/year, just before it got revamped but that car model still exist (like last two year Vibe when compared with actual Vibe). B- That car model no longer exist, but the brand remains.C- The brand no longer exist (like Pontiac, let say), but the mother company (GM) still exist.D- The mother company (GM) is filing for bankruptcy, restructuring and new owner still unknown.E- The mother company (GM) is over (no longer exist), have to find small garage that can still do the mechanics (scrap yard for body part, in case of accident),

[jake75]

On our way home from dinner I went by the Immke Buick - now Immke Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealer. I wonder if they will bother changing their signs to include Pontiac. Seems that might be a waste of money.Just around the corner the Dave Gill signs still have Pontiac-GMC. I wonder if they have enough money to change those to Chevrolet.I did a little Google research - seems that the future of the NUMMI venture might be in jeopardy. Toyota and GM might both want out. Local govt. is very concerned about the potential loss of that tax base. It's the only plant where Toyota has to deal with the UAW. Reinforces my decision to hop on that incredible '09 Vibe deal in January. I can probably coast for at least six years before I need to consider another new car. A lot will change by that time, in ways no one can predict.

[ColonelPanic]

Well, if GM and Toyota want to ditch the joint venture, now's the time. If they continue it, they GM would have to move the platform back under the Chevrolet brand or something. Wouldn't be the same, but that's where it started anyway.I don't see NUMMI lasting, but that's just me. Toyota would either close the plant or take full control, yanking the union out to match their other NA operatons.

[Caretaker]

I hate to be the party pooper, but I'm seeing the silver lining in all of this, for those who want a great car in their driveway. With Pontiac gone, our (used) car values should plummet rapidly. Since I keep my cars forever and don't care what my car's value drops to, I foresee another 2009 Vibe in my driveway in the very near future.

[tnpartsguy]

CaretakerUsed cars have already plummetted. Dec 1st I KBB'd my '06. It came up to about $14k. Now when I KBB it, it's about $6k. Sadly, I owe about $17K on the car. Needless to say, any GM owner has taken a huge hit on value in the last 4 months, but when the closing of the Pontiac division, it will be like Oldsmobile.... values will stay low, and parts will get scarce FAST... especially interior trim.I don't foresee me ever owning another GM vehicle. Their ideas have hurt the industry as a whole, and the entire world's economy.*warning politics ahead*I wish Mr Obama would pull a Ronnie Raygun on the UAW; either work with it to fix this situation, and we'll just fire the union. It happened with the air traffic controllers. Yes ATC's are considered a strategic industry, but who do you think has to gear up to build planes, tanks, and ships if we ever do have another war? The auto industry! Yes, I work for a GM dealership, and I'm hoping I have a job in 6 months, but GM sucks; How do you explain killing off your 3rd best-selling brand and keeping Buick???? How do you explain killing your 3rd best selling brand and spending $500 million + a year advertising one brand of trucks you build over the other brand of truck you build???? I've said it several times. GMC, Buick, Saturn, Hummer and Saab need to go, make GM Chevy, Caddilac, and have Pontiac as the performance/style division. IN OTHER WORDS, keep the 3 top sellers and dump the rest. (They can still build "Buick's" in China {Chinese Buick share no resemblance to our Buick's anyway, most are rebadged Daewoo's and Opels})

[Dog Hauler]

I bought my '09 GT a little over a month ago, traded in my '07 and helped stimulate the economy right? The government anounced one week later that they would stand behind GM warranties starting March 31st. so I hope I do not end up with a brand new car without a warranty, because if that happens I will make sure I never buy another GM again.

[Caretaker]

tnpartsguy: I wish you and everyone else in your predicament all the best. But for parts, other than the outer skin, us Vibe owners can smile knowing that we can get parts from Toyota. I definitely agree with you about GM dropping Pontiac over Buick. Makes no sense to me either; but after fighting it out with GM Detroit last year, I now know that nothing GM does today makes any sense.

[esjones]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »Thinking about the future of the Vibe, I suspect that even if bankruptcy would provide them an out, that GM would want to continue the Nummi joint venture and that if Toyota remains interested in marketing the Matrix that GM will find a home for their version - probably as a Chevy.That's what I would do, except that gives Chevy dealers too many models to deal with. And what happens to the Solstice? I was honestly thinking about giving the G8 a look (though I hate Pontiac's current G-names) the next time I'm in the market for a car.

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »CaretakerUsed cars have already plummetted. Dec 1st I KBB'd my '06. It came up to about $14k. Now when I KBB it, it's about $6k. Sadly, I owe about $17K on the car.You owe $17,000 on a 2006 Pontiac Vibe?That is a lot of money to be honest. Did you have to roll in a bunch of negative equity or? But I do agree with other posters here, the fact GM is hurting so bad and is killing off brands is going to limit parts and will deter buyers.

[Mathias]

The market is pretty weird, and has been for a year. Once the dust settles -- let's hope it does -- the resale situation may not be all that bad. Remember Oldsmobile? Their resale didn't take too bad a hit, more or less the same as the equivalent Chevy or Olds.As far as Buick vs. Pontiac -- Buick has two trump cards; it's popular with older folks, many of whom are very loyal. And for reasons not clear to me, it's very popular in China. No way is GM going to give that up.Pontiac doesn't have that kind of a following. What isn't clear to me is whether Pontiac will stick around as a niche brand (Solstice, maybe Vibe) to be sold by Buick/GMC dealers. It's been floated, but I haven't heard anything about it for a few weeks.-Mathias07 Vibe 5sp04 Vibe 5sp [gone]

[jake75]

I think I read somewhere that GM sold about 3 mil vehicles in 2008.Vibe sales were what? About 50,000? [1.7%] That puts it in perspective.That said - in Q1 2009 vs 2008 Vibe sales are only down 16% vs 48% overall.Info at http://www.gm.com/corporate/in..._prod/

[tnpartsguy]

The Buick's sold here, and the Buick's sold in China have NOTHING in common but nameplate. Most are built on Daewoo's components. Some are Opel designs. Losing Buick here will NOT affect China AT all. Using Buick ONLY in China would be fine.From WikiBuick in ChinaGeneral Motors, selling vehicles under the Buick, Chevrolet, Opel, Saab and Cadillac names, is the best-selling foreign automaker in China. Selling a combined 876,000 vehicles in 2006, GM overtook Volkswagen the year before, although that company still holds the claim on best selling brand.[20][21] Making up nearly 35% of those sales, China is Buick's largest market, selling more there than even the United States.[22] In 2007, General Motors sold over 330,000 Buicks in China, more than twice what they sold in the United States.[23]Since 1999, a Chinese version of the Buick Century/Regal has been produced and sold in China under Shanghai GM and has proven to be popular among upscale, professional families, establishing Buick as one of the most popular vehicle brands in China. In addition, Buick of China also sells the compact Excelle (based on the Daewoo Lacetti/Nubira), a five-door hatchback version called the HRV, and a modified version of the first generation Pontiac Montana minivan named the GL8. Chinese market Buicks are equipped with smaller engines than the same nameplate in the American market; in 2008 General Motors began importing these engines from China for use in the American Chevrolet Equinox and Pontiac Torrent.[24]In June 2005, Buick announced that it would market the Australian Holden Statesman in China as the Buick Royaum. Buick previously marketed the subcompact Sail, sourced from GM's Asian operations and based on the Opel Corsa B, until 2005. Since then, Shanghai GM has replaced it with the Chevrolet Sail (a rebadged Opel Corsa). Buick has stated that it expects China to become its second largest market.For the 2006 model year, Buick debuted the Chinese version of the LaCrosse sedan. The only differences are exterior design, different engine choices, and a facelifted interior. It is positioned above the Regal but below the Royaum.In April 2007, Shanghai-GM announced the Buick Park Avenue, for the Chinese market only. The vehicle is based on the Holden Statesman, with engines manufactured in Australia.

[ColonelPanic]

Yeah, if all they're doing is slapping Buick badges on Daewoos, they can easily keep the brand over there. And that's funny that they still have a Buick clone of the old Montana van. GMC would be ideal to kill off too, but apparently they are too profitable for Government Motors to consider that. They're just looking at what units of the business are making money and what aren't... And sadly, Pontiac isn't one that is making them a lot of money.

[tnpartsguy]

CP, think about this; Chevy and GMC trucks are the same. The GMC gets better interior fabrics, and a smiley face grille. To obtain that smiley look, all the front end sheet metal is different. If they went to ONE truck line, and improved the Chevy's interior (or added a high grade Chevy line, aka Denali) they would save billions. No more advertising against other, no more tolling cost for 2 seperate front clips, not having to support 2 dealer bodies, ect.

[tnpartsguy]

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »You owe $17,000 on a 2006 Pontiac Vibe?That is a lot of money to be honest. Did you have to roll in a bunch of negative equity or? But I do agree with other posters here, the fact GM is hurting so bad and is killing off brands is going to limit parts and will deter buyers. I rolled a large chunk of a 2006 Colorado into it. The WORST truck EVER. I also bought the '06 after the '07's were out.

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »I rolled a large chunk of a 2006 Colorado into it. The WORST truck EVER. I also bought the '06 after the '07's were out.Sorry to hear that as it is not fun. I have been in that situation and it is not fun. Here is hoping Pontiac stays.

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by Dog Hauler »I bought my '09 GT a little over a month ago, traded in my '07 and helped stimulate the economy right? The government anounced one week later that they would stand behind GM warranties starting March 31st. so I hope I do not end up with a brand new car without a warranty, because if that happens I will make sure I never buy another GM again. You think you got troubles - I also have a 2007 Chrysler T&C with a lifetime powertrain warranty. I didn't think it would be Chrysler's lifetime that I should worry about. I just read that Chrysler has a reached deal with the UAW - whatever that means.

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »I just read that Chrysler has a reached deal with the UAW - whatever that means. Canadian UAW. There had to be concessions for the FIAT deal to fly and for them and the government situation.

[808 Vibes]

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »I don't foresee me ever owning another GM vehicle. Their ideas have hurt the industry as a whole, and the entire world's economy.+1. I'm 110% positive I'll never buy a GMC, Buick, or a Saturn, the divisions they are keeping?! Makes no sense.I'm standing by to see what happens tomorrow. Will visit you on B later tomorrow and hope everything turns out for your, and all the other workers' sake.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by HawaiiPontiacLover »+1. I'm 110% positive I'll never buy a GMC, Buick, or a Saturn, the divisions they are keeping?! they're also keeping Chevy and Cadillac. I can't stand the Chevy front grills, so I don't think I'd buy a Vibe if it were a Chevy. I'd probably go w/ Matrix.