GM nixing the SS and V cars...

[Sublimewind]

Looks like the SS and Caddi V cars are all being put on indefinite HOLD... http://www.autoblog.com/2009/0...tions/I've been trying to get my GF's brother to buy a Cobalt SS, they recently STOMPED the competition in a Motor Trend shootout.. (including the MS3 and WRX.!!) I can't seem to find the article though...

[northvibe]

The turbo cobalt SS is bad ***. The features it comes with to unleash beat downs is nice, flat shifting, launch control and the newer 09's have a lcd gauge to show more than boost, kinda like a dash hawk thing. You should hear the anger on the gm forums, people are flipping out cuz there was a rumor of a cruze SS coming out, but now its all done Tell him to get one before they are done, they are going pretty cheap now too, real low 20's loaded and they get 35mpg hwy

[kevera]

http://www.motortrend.com/road....html

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by kevera »http://www.motortrend.com/road....htmlThere it is... thanks..

[Sublimewind]

CNN video... Vibe shown at begining... http://www.cnn.com/video/#/vid...s.cnn

[vibolista]

It's a real shame that all this has to happen to one of the largest industries in the U.S. Just like the reporters said... a Split Window Vette or a Cobra or a Trans Am. The Cobalt SS has the goods, but the body and interior say updated Cavalier in really bold letters. GM's best talent was funneled toward bigger car offerings, their larger SUVs... trucks and cars. I would love to have a Cobra or a Split Window Stingray in my garage, but neither would make a daily driver these days and I think I would have to be much closer to 'wealthy' just to afford one now. I use stuff like my extremely pedestrian 38 to 40 MPG Saturn SW2 (wagon, 99) and the not as pedestrian replacement I bought for it... the 08 Vibe.Recently on the side of U.S. cardom passion. our car companies maintained a slightly lower level than some other brands, mostly from Europe. The Vette today is still a world class offering and quite reasonably priced compared to the competition. But then look at the recent Solstice... it could have been lighter and tidier. And that engine way more refined and economical. But the big development money went to the SUVs, the trucks and the bigger, more expensive cars. There are a lot of things that I don't get, or understand, about this industry and how it's run (or run into the ground). If you compare the products from Ford North America and Ford Europe and elsewhere, it's eye opening. That's just one example. This entire mess we are in is really very bad, and getting worse for now. It will turn around, eventually, bailouts or not, but it might take some time.

[northvibe]

yes the way america runs companies is @#$# crazy. If you look at almost any other country the people actually care about the company and how it affects the workers, public and its surroundings. Here ceo's just try to make big bucks then leave. Where in other countries they are respectful and dont get paid that much more than higher paid workers. ie. toyota ceo gets 1million a year (still crazy too much...) but GM got over 15?! thats crazy. Thats just salary that isnt even bonuses, paid trips, stock options etc. America is now the place to get a company make money quit and dont care what happens...its sad and sick.but GM screwed themselves...well they all did.. hopefully they dont continue with the same old ways :/

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »yes the way america runs companies is @#$# crazy. If you look at almost any other country the people actually care about the company and how it affects the workers, public and its surroundings. Here ceo's just try to make big bucks then leave. Where in other countries they are respectful and dont get paid that much more than higher paid workers. ie. toyota ceo gets 1million a year (still crazy too much...) but GM got over 15?! thats crazy. Thats just salary that isnt even bonuses, paid trips, stock options etc. America is now the place to get a company make money quit and dont care what happens...its sad and sick.but GM screwed themselves...well they all did.. hopefully they dont continue with the same old ways :/oh man, that there just made me think of that late 80's/early 90's movie about the car co that was failing, so they brought in a Asian adviser to straighten things out... Man I can't remember the name, but it was HILARIOUS... and it depicted EXACTLY what is happening right NOW...

[Silversn95]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe » but GM screwed themselves...well they all did.. hopefully they dont continue with the same old ways :/It amazes me that the general public's perception for the root cause of the domestic auto industry's situation continues to be their own fault. Sure, GM and Chrysler have made mistakes along the way but it wasn't until the economy tanked due to issues completely out of the auto industry's control did the talk of bankruptcy emerge. The big picture is starting to unfold now that Nissan, Toyota and others are bleeding red just like our domestic auto makers. It took them a little longer due to a reduced dependance on trucks and SUVs but it still happened.There is plenty of blame to go around but I don't know why the general public does not understand that the main contributors are:1. The economy dropping due to the credit crisis. This caused by Uncle Sam and the banks. (same poeple now getting 1+ trillion with no questions asked before it is all said and done). Lets face it, if there were available loans out there these companies wouldn't need to ask for LOANs from the government. I personally believe what the financial institutions and the government did was criminal but I doubt anyone will be made to pay for it other than us.2. Shock last year when the price of oil jumped to nearly $150 a barrel ($50 of which has been estimated as over speculation...thank you wallstreet). Don't believe this? Keep in mind that when the price of fuel dropped back below $3.00 a gallon around November the sales of trucks went up.Add this up to our domestic auto companies that sell more trucks than cars (because up until early last year that was what we north americans bought, and bought plenty of) and now a lack of credit and you get the situation we are in today. The only reason the others have appeared to be doing better is due to their smaller dependance on truck/SUV sales and protection from their home countries (the artificially low yen as an example). I think it is a crying shame that GM is putting the brakes on their performance division. GM knows how to make great high performance cars.If you ask me, GM should keep the division and stop wasting money in NASCAR. The 10's of millions blown there could be used elsewhere and I don't think it is helping one bit to improve sales. (considering NASCAR has been anything but STOCK the last few decades)

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »oh man, that there just made me think of that late 80's/early 90's movie about the car co that was failing, so they brought in a Asian adviser to straighten things out... Man I can't remember the name, but it was HILARIOUS... and it depicted EXACTLY what is happening right NOW... was it Gung Ho with Micheal Keaton? its far from "depicting EXACTLY what is happening now". it was a funny movie though.

[northvibe]

Quote, originally posted by Silversn95 »It amazes me that the general public's perception for the root cause of the domestic auto industry's situation continues to be their own fault. Sure, GM and Chrysler have made mistakes along the way but it wasn't until the economy tanked due to issues completely out of the auto industry's control did the talk of bankruptcy emerge. The big picture is starting to unfold now that Nissan, Toyota and others are bleeding red just like our domestic auto makers. It took them a little longer due to a reduced dependance on trucks and SUVs but it still happened.There is plenty of blame to go around but I don't know why the general public does not understand that the main contributors are:1. The economy dropping due to the credit crisis. This caused by Uncle Sam and the banks. (same poeple now getting 1+ trillion with no questions asked before it is all said and done). Lets face it, if there were available loans out there these companies wouldn't need to ask for LOANs from the government. I personally believe what the financial institutions and the government did was criminal but I doubt anyone will be made to pay for it other than us.2. Shock last year when the price of oil jumped to nearly $150 a barrel ($50 of which has been estimated as over speculation...thank you wallstreet). Don't believe this? Keep in mind that when the price of fuel dropped back below $3.00 a gallon around November the sales of trucks went up.Add this up to our domestic auto companies that sell more trucks than cars (because up until early last year that was what we north americans bought, and bought plenty of) and now a lack of credit and you get the situation we are in today. The only reason the others have appeared to be doing better is due to their smaller dependance on truck/SUV sales and protection from their home countries (the artificially low yen as an example). I think it is a crying shame that GM is putting the brakes on their performance division. GM knows how to make great high performance cars.If you ask me, GM should keep the division and stop wasting money in NASCAR. The 10's of millions blown there could be used elsewhere and I don't think it is helping one bit to improve sales. (considering NASCAR has been anything but STOCK the last few decades)So what you are saying, is that because of bad business practices that were only found when the economy tanked...its not their fault? Not their fault they produced the wrong cars for the american public needs, didnt do r&d on devices and technologies to further the car industry? They should just make trucks? Why was toyota and honda the first with hybrids? why did ford/gm JUST recently make a hybrid? Why did GM and ford pull out of the EV market?So they shouldnt take any responsibility for keeping track of their wasteful spending, over paying the investors and ceo's instead of reinvesting into the company. They should buy private jets to fly around in, buy into car brands like hummer to try and make a buck with out thinking of the future?Have you been out of the country? we are the only ones paying this cheap for gas, driving cars/trucks SO FREAKING BIG and its not needed. Why would someone buy a truck for a daily driver to work? People who buy the wrong car for their needs, ie, (removed) gas is cheap i'll buy a huge truck cuz its cool, screw them they didnt think of the future or their finances. Of course truck/suv sales would go up when gas dropped, the cost of trucks and suv's almost dropped in half because they couldnt get rid of them AND the gov. gave tax cuts for people that bought them... The economy finally tanked because corruption in the US and corporate world caught up to itself. dont believe me? go read the news...

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »was it Gung Ho with Micheal Keaton? its far from "depicting EXACTLY what is happening now". it was a funny movie though.that' it... and maybe not EXACTLY, but pretty darn close... (I'm sorry, I forget that we have many domestic car manufacture employees here.. please forgive my "snide" remarks, they are truely nothing personal)

[Silversn95]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »So what you are saying, is that because of bad business practices that were only found when the economy tanked...its not their fault? Not their fault they produced the wrong cars for the american public needs, didnt do r&d on devices and technologies to further the car industry? They should just make trucks? Why was toyota and honda the first with hybrids? why did ford/gm JUST recently make a hybrid? Why did GM and ford pull out of the EV market?So they shouldnt take any responsibility for keeping track of their wasteful spending, over paying the investors and ceo's instead of reinvesting into the company. They should buy private jets to fly around in, buy into car brands like hummer to try and make a buck with out thinking of the future?Have you been out of the country? we are the only ones paying this cheap for gas, driving cars/trucks SO FREAKING BIG and its not needed. Why would someone buy a truck for a daily driver to work? People who buy the wrong car for their needs, ie, (removed) gas is cheap i'll buy a huge truck cuz its cool, screw them they didnt think of the future or their finances. Of course truck/suv sales would go up when gas dropped, the cost of trucks and suv's almost dropped in half because they couldnt get rid of them AND the gov. gave tax cuts for people that bought them... The economy finally tanked because corruption in the US and corporate world caught up to itself. dont believe me? go read the news...Like I stated, there is plenty of blame, mistakes were made, but by far the biggest contributors to this situation are the economy and the fuel prices. How can you argue that they were not building the vehicles people wanted when the top selling vehicles in north america for nearly 30+ years have been trucks!! You need to review the history a little better about the auto industry and realize that the domestics (GM in many cases) pushed the boundries for new technologies long before other auto manufactures did so. There was an article months ago in the SAE international magazine listing all the innovations that GM introduced to the market. Don't forget, GM was the first with a true EV car (EV1) and you can't blame them for not continuing with it. It wasn't profitable and the low fuel prices didn't help back in the '90s.Unfortunately, your perception of the industry is guided by what you have seen and heard in the media. I will tell you now without a doubt the media has an extremely biased and inaccurate view of the industry that is hurting our domestic auto manufacturers. This has been going on for decades. There was a time when this was justified in the '80s and '90s perhaps but not today. Not when some of the best vehicles on the road are coming from Ford and GM (really can't say the same about Chrysler).Your knowledge about new technologies is also skewed from the media. Ford just getting a hybrid now??!!! You do realize they have had a hybrid Escape for years now don't you? The new Fusion hybrid must have some advancement in technology over Toyota as well since it spanks it for fuel economy.Yes, we pay less for fuel than most countries and we certainly buy more trucks and SUVs than any country. As long as fuel is cheap the north american consumer will continue to do so. The best thing for the industry now would be for fuel to be regulated to $4 a gallon or more so that all the billions being spent now on hybrids, fuel efficient gas engines and other powertain technology will translate into improved sales down the road. Look at the sales figures. Fuel went down late last year....truck sales whet up and hybrid sales dropped like a stone (a big one at 40+% or something along those lines).And please, don't even bring up the corporate jet issue. That is such an insignificant part of the big picture. Again, you are letting the media focus on that issue to cloud the truth. I totally agree on the overpaid executives though. If I made bad decisions in my job I'd be without it in short order. The only executive that seems worth his pay is Alan Mulally at Ford. His direction over the last two years is the main reason Ford isn't asking for LOANS. Lets not forget that part, LOANS, not CASH MONEY like the banks have taken (without explanation)!!! If you want to see corruption look there!

[Merzbow]

I have to agree with Silversn.American car companies have developed all kinds of innovative technology that never caught on. The foreign companies were not the only ones carrying out their ideas. Since they have mass transit in Europe and in Japan, they were under pressure to create cheaper running cars, otherwise, why would people buy one and deal with the hassle if they could simply take the train for less? Here we hardly have mass transit other than major cities so they could sell whatever cars they came up with pretty much.I don't blame them for their high paid CEOs and their jets and all that garbage, yes it pisses me off and it's absolutely ridiculous what some of them make in relation to the work they do, HOWEVER that's no different from any other corporation in the world. Any huge company like that, you will find similar issues within so if you are *****ing about that, then you need to also consider the rest of the world's corporations.I really hope they don't stop their performance division for now...I know the majority of people care about versatility and safety and all that garbage but there is a large group of us that think performance and the related categories are way more important than practicality and safety. I really don't care how many airbags a car has, or how many kids I can fit into it, or even how many miles per gallon it gets! I love driving and i don't care AT ALL if a car gets 10mpg, if it's a car I love, I'll still drive it. Just because the majority is obsessed with MPG and practicality doesn't mean everyone I really wish they would keep that in mind.BTW if anyone just absorbs what the media tells you and forms an opinion solely on that, more research needs to be done. It's like that one song John Mayer does: "When you trust your television, what you get is what you got. 'Cause when they own the information, they can bend it all they want". Perfect lyric right there!

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »was it Gung Ho with Micheal Keaton? its far from "depicting EXACTLY what is happening now". it was a funny movie though.+1 on that.Great movie but not what's happening here.

[northvibe]

lol you guys are plagued by your own "media" thinking. Go look at japans ceo salaries. instead of just saying every countries salaries are high..no they are not. You state that american auto made innovations that never caught on? yes because they were wrong for their markets. why? because thats poor research and development. your whole truck making because we have cheap gas is just ridiculous. the auto makers know from historical evidence that when gas goes up gas guzzlers suck and sales go down they know this and were not prepared. you guys need to research other companies in other countries before stating crazy things that are hardly true. But hey its ok we'll just give GM and chrysler billions for their own doing so they can do it all over again!! sweet...cant wait.speaking of SS and v though. I guess its not fully stopped. A couple things will still be made. like cobalt, hhr and cts...soo maybe just no new projects :/ :shurg:

[Silversn95]

Northvibe, please explain to me how you have come to your point of view or perception of the true issues going on within the automotive industry. I have been working in the automotive industry for close to 20 yrs now and know more about what is going on than you will ever read or see in the news. You are only kidding yourself if you believe the media is complete and accurate on this subject or that you can see what is going on by going on the internet and searching for facts and figures. My statements are based on experience within this industry, not the media. I don't disagree that executives at the domestic automakers are overcompensated but you are missing the point. Even their high pay is not directly leading to the situation they are in. That is a drop in the bucket to the issues affecting the big picture here (just like the corporate jets).Do you realize most automotive innovations in vehicles were pioneered by the domestics? Some of these innovations not only caught on but they are now mandatory such as the catalytic converter. Are you calling GM stupid for being ahead of their time with the EV1 just because they came up with it in 1990 instead of twenty years later? You also fail to accept that trucks and SUV's sell. Look at the numbers. Up until last year they out sold any car in north america. Why is this so hard for you to accept? The numbers don't lie. It sounds more like you are sore that they are being provided government LOANS. Maybe you missed that part. LOANS, not just being handed money as you seem to believe.

[northvibe]

You brought up the media not me. I have no idea what you are saying about me being biased because of the media...I never said exec's pay was the only thing to blame, that was you...Just because a truck is their #1 seller does not mean they should invest in making good cars for when the truck market crashes. which is exactly what happened. Did you ever read/hear about the 60mpg ford f150? yeah...awesome but theres a huge market that would buy it but its not coming out. I blamed many things on the car makers I didnt have just 1 or 2 things. It is their fault, you dont see toyota, honda and many euro car makers asking for bailouts, because they had car/truck lineup that was a much better fit for their markets. All domestic car makers did was rely on sales of trucks to keep them afloat. THAT is what I am saying and you are not hearing...So you are saying only domestic manf.'s can make innovations? Why doe the euro cars have higher safety standards than ours? Cat converters were not invented by a car maker.... Gm is very stupid for cancelling the EV1. They still say sales were bad. BS they sold all of them and had waiting lists for them..That goes for ALL makers of EV cars then. The ford ranger ev, so many people wanted to keep it then eventually broke down and sold some back to customers. How do I fail to accept trucks and suv's sell? I never said they didnt. I said they only will sell when gas is cheap which is exactly what happens. Why did sales plummet when gas hit $4? THEN they cut prices of trucks/suv's in half and they started to sell again. I would love to see the source of these "numbers".

[Silversn95]

wow, I guess you are not understanding my posts. You also have a lot of misconceptions about the industry in general, not just north america. I keep bringing up the media because your comments seem to come from what you have learned through what you have seen or heard, not from first hand experience.You are the one that keeps bringing up exec's pay. I thought I made it clear my belief for the main contributors for the domestic automakers situation is the economy and the artificial spike in fuel prices last year. You did read my first post I hope.You are fooling yourself if you believe other automakers are not getting some form of 'bailout'. They are all getting help from their governments. The Japanese have been getting help all along with their under-valued Yen for example, never mind their restrictive trade policies. Haven't you seen the news lately with Toyota bleeding red for the first time in 50 yrs, Nissan eliminating 20,000 employee's!!! This is not a domestic only issue. Like I stated in my first post, the only reason it took longer for the imports to feel the pain is that a smaller percentage of their sales are in trucks and SUV's. The rest of the blame is minor by comparison (high union labour costs, poor management decisions, corporate jets....etc)Don't bring up safety and emission standads of EU vs North America, they are virtually the same now and in fact, our tighter limits on diesel emissions is one reason the diesel automobile has not been successful in north america (there are other issues to be sure). I never said domestics alone can make innovations, I said a lot of the innovations that have happened in the auto industry are from our own domestic automakers. Catalytic converters as an example were developed by GM to meet the then new emissions standards in the '70s. They were the first. It wasn't toyota, honda, nissan or anyone else. This was just one of many examples out there.Need proof:http://www.wpi.edu/About/Histo....html

[NascarXprt]

ok i think thats enough of the arguing between you two. lets get back to the discussion of the nixing of the SS and V car please, Thank you.

[northvibe]

yes the ss..soo I guess its not fully dropped.

[AKLGT]

too bad the cobalt SS is only FWD. it'd be fun but not in the snow and ice.

[NascarXprt]

unless you can ice drift Fwd style too bad the SS badge started to redeem itself in the last year ½ . and the V's were a milestone! especially the CTS-V.

[damronjr]

As long as I get my Stage 1 kit which is one the way I am happy! lol

[northvibe]

Yeah so the new rumor is they are keeping the cobalt ss, hhr ss and cts v. I would assume the stage 1 for the SS's is coming out....but dont know why its still taking so long.

[damronjr]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »Yeah so the new rumor is they are keeping the cobalt ss, hhr ss and cts v. I would assume the stage 1 for the SS's is coming out....but dont know why its still taking so long.It's already out for the 08s, 09s had to be cleared, just got it, so should be available soon!

[northvibe]

Ah yes its already out for solstice, hhr and sky. They have a different flash for the cobalt.You get it yet jason? Its basically just a flash but mand 315lbs of torq in a auto? nice.

[damronjr]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »Ah yes its already out for solstice, hhr and sky. They have a different flash for the cobalt.You get it yet jason? Its basically just a flash but mand 315lbs of torq in a auto? nice.It is new sensors, wires, and a ECU flash. It will up the HP from 235 in the stock AT to 290! It was even already available for the HHR SS but only the 08 was approved, apparently the 09 flash is going to be different than the 08, so it had to be approved separately. It just got approval, so it should be available for sale soon, just waiting for the word and my order will be in! Edit: Also, before in the stock config any add-on mods you put on the stock system would dumb-down so they had no effect, now you will see the full potential from the mods!

[northvibe]

check out crateenginedepot.com They have the best prices on SS hhr/cobalt things and are based in chicago. I met the owner at a cobalt meet he is awesome. $550 for their stage 1 2007/2008 kit. It was cheaper for most ppl to buy from him then have a dealer install or a friend than to have their close dealer do it all.

[damronjr]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »check out crateenginedepot.com They have the best prices on SS hhr/cobalt things and are based in chicago. I met the owner at a cobalt meet he is awesome. $550 for their stage 1 2007/2008 kit. It was cheaper for most ppl to buy from him then have a dealer install or a friend than to have their close dealer do it all.That's where I am going to get it and have the dealer install it so they can do the flash and I keep the full warranty! lol

[northvibe]

HAHAH awesome. yeah he is big on cobaltss.net . we are actually trying to setup another meet at his shop again this year! Last year was pretty fun! GM brough a bunch of cobalt concepts and a turbo SS cobalt (before they were forsale) and showed us a powerpoint on the upgrades and how they made it. When I was looking to get a cobalt or ms3, tom at CED actually helped me find a couple SS's cuz i wanted the full g85 package with lsd etc and there were only like 2 in MN. cool well at least we are on the same page for awesomeness

[damronjr]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »HAHAH awesome. yeah he is big on cobaltss.net . we are actually trying to setup another meet at his shop again this year! Last year was pretty fun! GM brough a bunch of cobalt concepts and a turbo SS cobalt (before they were forsale) and showed us a powerpoint on the upgrades and how they made it. When I was looking to get a cobalt or ms3, tom at CED actually helped me find a couple SS's cuz i wanted the full g85 package with lsd etc and there were only like 2 in MN. cool well at least we are on the same page for awesomeness Indeed!