waxing my paint off ?

[starman1980]

Ok, I'm wax my lava two tone vibe with Meguiar's cleaner wax I get all the painted surface except the were front is painted plastic as I do it I notice red on the white aplicator pad so I flip the pad try again in a diffrent spot more red, so I switch pad and try a diffrent spot this time useing Meguiar's carnuba wax same thing what gives? I mean even if I was waxing with sandpaper it would take of the clear coat first right?

[wildvibe]

Hmm strange. Even with a cleaner wax all it should do is take the junk and swirls and stratches out you shouldn't really see paint coming off!

[geezer]

Two possibilities: Either you have some areas where the clearcoat is missing, allowing the paint to be exposed or, you may have a tinted "clearcoat" on your car.

[starman1980]

well when I first got the car I noticed a spot nere the back window were it look dull like there was no clear coat in that spot but you can only notice it if you look at it at a the right light at a certen angle. and I have two small chips on the hood that are down to bare metal or gray primer this lead me to beleve the paint was thin any way.

[Vibe Rater]

As a general rule, if you get paint on your buffing pad, you've gone through the clearcoat and your ride will need some paint hospital work. I'm not saying that's what you've done, but I was warned about that when considering buying an electric buffer. I was told that if you're not careful, you could go through the clearcoat and ruin your paint job. You can do this by being too aggressive with the buffer or leaving it buffing in one spot too long or even buffing it too often. There is some talent needed to properly use a buffer. It's all fun and games till someone loses a clear coat.

[ragingfish]

If you're missing clearcoat, and have been since the day of purchase, I'd think that replacing the clearcoat where missing should be a warranted repair -- not sure though. Check with the dealer!

[wildvibe]

quote:well when I first got the car I noticed a spot nere the back window were it look dull like there was no clear coat in that spot but you can only notice it if you look at it at a the right light at a certen angle. and I have two small chips on the hood that are down to bare metal or gray primer this lead me to beleve the paint was thin any way.Paint on the vibe isn't that great either I have rock chips also down to primer coat!

[starman1980]

no buffer I was doin it by hand?

[Vibe Rater]

Hand job eh? Burning through the clearcoat shouldn't be a problem then. I'd stop by your friendly neighborhood Pontiac dealer.

[jlynam]

I would also say you are missing clear coat. I used a cleaner wax (Zymol) on my Lava 2 tone on Saturday with no paint transferrence to the applicator or buffing towel. It would definitely be worth looking into. I would do a test spot in the suspected area before going to the dealer, then repeating the test in front of the dealer. if a picture is worth a thousand words a live demonstration is worth a whole library.

[robdog]

I detailed cars for 4 years while in college. That is either faulty clear coat or it was never clearcoated in the first place. If you ever buffed an older car without clearcoat the pad would always turn the color of the car. A new vehicle these days should not have anything on the pad except wax, no paint at all. Take it in soon

[Stang2Vibe]

Even on newer cars, there are sometimes plastic body panels that are not clearcoated and that is done intentionally. The plastic panels are more flexible and if they were painted with a basecoat/clearcoat paint job, the paint would crack if that panel were to be bumped (by another car, a shopping cart, etc.). So some manufacturers use an enamel paint on certain more flexible body parts because enamels (and some other types of paints) are more flexible when cured and will resist the cracking I mentioned earlier. It is also possible that your car should have been clearcoated and they missed some spots. Most modern factory paint jobs are done almost exclusively by robots. It is possible that something went wrong with the robot and some panels weren't finished properly. However, if you had no clearcoat on a part of your car and it was meant to, it would never shine like the rest of the car because basecoats are almost always very dull. So waxing and polishing will not make the area shine. I can't tell what might be going on exactly with your paint because I can't see it. But the suggestion to take it to a dealer and demonstrate to them what is happening is a very good idea.

[starman1980]

well I went to the dealership today to have the weather strip replace around the door for the second time. so I ask about the paint they said It was "nomal to see color transfer to applicator on darker red, black blue cars even with a clear coat

[GT_03]

actually when i used my Meguiar's Step 1 Paint Cleaner, i had a little bit of red on my applicator.

[Flip-Side]

quote:Call Pontiac right now and let them know.. Actually I would call Jeff Strausser on this.. This is not right. Sorry to be a Nay-Sayer, but it happens to be true. Any cleaner wax will have small amounts of rubbing compounds in them to remove oxidation, swirls, and scratches. The vibe's paint is like paper, so I'm surprised that there is any clear coat at all. In short, I did the same thing and used a cleaner wax, and got Neptune paint on the pad. It was the only way I could buff out all the scratches and swirls. It's a shame the vibe has such poor paint, well....mine at least. If anyone actually gets a dealer to help them out on the paint issue, let me know. McElveen in South Carolina gave me a big fat no.

[GT_03]

This is the first car it ever happend to me on.

[Stang2Vibe]

Now that I think of it, when I used the clay bar and waxed my car about a month and a half ago, I was getting blue marks on my cloths that I was using to remove the wax, too. I am guessing that on certain colors, they are not clearcoating the cladding (mine is monotone) and probably using a different type of paint as I mentioned earlier.

[Stang2Vibe]

It's not that unusual. It happens to our Mack trucks at work every year. They are painted with a Dupont enamel paint. Not clearcoated. But if we add more hardener and gloss additives to the paint before we spray the trucks, this happens a lot less. I am having my doubts about the quality of the paint on our Vibes. I've already got a few stone chips in places where they shouldn't normally occur. And the color rubbing off is less than impressive as well.

[Cubanpete]

I have talked to a few local Toyota matrix as well as other Vibe owners, and all said that the paint was crap. There first complaints were the paint! When I clay-barred the car I had no paint come off when I used the polish glaze I had some (very slight) from the passenger door panel, I was wondering if these are last minute touch ups done by the MFR or dealer before delivery.......cosmetic fixes?

[ragingfish]

I think if we had to take a stab at the number one complaint, it most likely would be the paint. I'd love to see Pontiac and Toyota fess up and say, yeah, we didn't do it right, and offer us free repaints, 2 coats. As they are allegedly doing with the lower cladding on the two-tones. But, I thing that's a LONG shot...

[Stang2Vibe]

A long shot indeed. As for 2 coats for repainting the car, that is not nearly enough. Our cheap, poor quality finishes are most likely made up of the following layers of finish products:2-3 coats of primer2-3 coats of basecoat (the layers that make the color of the finish)2 coats of clearcoatThe main problem here is that they need to apply more coats of basecoat and clearcoat to make the car shine and the finish more durable. Mercedes-Benz used to boast that all their cars had a minimum of 32 coats of finish. Compare that to the likely 6-8 coats of finish that our Vibes/Matrixes get. Also compare sticker prices, in all fairness. A good finish would have a minimum of 3-4 coats of basecoat and 4 coats of clear. The clearcoat has better shine, but a little less durability if they cut down the clear with some thinner when they mix it to spray the car. So in that case, a minimum of about 6 coats of clear would produce an excellent shine. Unfortunately, the basecoat and clearcoat paints are relatively expensive so they are cutting costs by applying fewer coats.

[EddieandtheVIBE]

The paint is definitely cheap. During my last waxing, I noticed 4 chips down to the primer. I'm unsure if I should have the dealer repair it, try to repair it myself, or just take it to a paint shop......

[Hot Vibe]

1st you need to understand how GM has the painting process. The paint is not really sprayed on anymore. The sheet metal is electrically charged and then paint is applied to the surface. By doing this the layer is much thinner and stronger. Now if your clear coat is gone you can have that verified at a local body shop or paint shop. Their are tools to measure the thickness of the paint. Even waxing by hand can go through the paint on surfaces where you can rub harder like the hood and the top of quarter panels. After market painters can put a better paint job on the vehicle than from the plants. By all means talk with your dealer as soon as you notice anything. Let them know what is up and use this forum as information to supply to them. Dealers need our help as well to resolve issues. If their are enough real complaints to the dealers then the Service Field Engineers in Warren Michigan will have enough data to support a change to help the customer. If we all just talk about it and do not tell the dealers then we will have to live with it. Each time a customer goes into a dealership and complains and it is documented, that data is saved into a database so the these engineers can use it in a business case to make changes.

[tots]

Check out the NUMMI web site http://www.nummi.com/painting.html which describes the paint processes used. Seems to contradict the dealer information you received.From the site:" A base coat and, for all colors except white, clear coat are applied "

[Craigmri]

One earlier post hit the nail on the head.........many of today's clear coats are tinted to achieve the depth of color. What I'm saying is the Clear coat isnt actually clear...its tinted.

[Stang2Vibe]

I talked to my bodyman friend the other day about this and he looked at my Vibe. He said that the bumpers (and probably the monotone body panels) are not clear coated like the rest of the car. They are painted with a special flex agent mixed into the paint. This is so that the paint on these plastic parts doesn't crack if they get bumped. He could tell because the finish looks different on these parts compared to the steel body panels. I told him of the paint color rubbing off on the rags when waxing those parts and he said that it was normal because they are not clearcoated.As for tinted clearcoats, I have not seen, heard of, or worked with any such thing. I'm not saying it is impossible or doesn't exist, just that I am unfamiliar with it. It would seem that tinting the clearcoat would defeat the purpose of using it, though. I will have to check into this one as well.

[Charlievibe]

This may have already been addressed some place else in this forum, but how many times a year, based on the pain application process GM uses, do you think is sufficient to wax my car? I tend to do it twice a year and in between, use the Turtle Wax car wash that has a little bit of wax in it.Any thoughts?

[Stang2Vibe]

I usually suggest that people wax no less than once every two months for full protection. I prefer once per month for myself, it's easier for me to maintain that way and keeps it looking great. I also recommend doing a 3 step deep-cleaning and wax regimen once or twice per year to keep things in tip-top shape.

[Craigmri]

Just got done doing a three stage process on my new Monotone Neptune Vibe. Instead of using a "Paint cleaner" for step one I used a Clay Magic bar instead then followed with McGuires step two polish then the new Synthetic Wax by prestone........Its so slick it actually feels wet. So smooth to the touch I cant keep my hands off it....The clay bars are all that!

[ragingfish]

quote:This may have already been addressed some place else in this forum, but how many times a year, based on the pain application process GM uses, do you think is sufficient to wax my car? I tend to do it twice a year and in between, use the Turtle Wax car wash that has a little bit of wax in it.Any thoughts?I wax mine every 3-4 months...whenever I can find the time. I just did mine for, what I expect ot be, the last time before winter. Unfortunately, it wasn't a great job, but hell, it'll do. I just wanted to make sure I had some decent protection on there for the upcoming snow season...

[Stang2Vibe]

quote:Just got done doing a three stage process on my new Monotone Neptune Vibe. Instead of using a "Paint cleaner" for step one I used a Clay Magic bar instead then followed with McGuires step two polish then the new Synthetic Wax by prestone........Its so slick it actually feels wet. So smooth to the touch I cant keep my hands off it....The clay bars are all that!Sounds like a job well done to me! I used the Clay Magic bar myself this summer and I was pleased with the results. Meguiar's makes very good quality products as well. The Prestone wax I haven't tried yet, but I will keep this in mind in the future. Congrats on the excellent finish---the way you describe it is how I like to get my finish also.

[RoundUp]

quote:The paint is not really sprayed on anymore. The sheet metal is electrically charged.Even though the sheet metal is electrically charged, paint is still sprayed on. quote:By doing this the layer is much thinner and stronger. This is one thing that definitely should be highlighted. Many of the posts here seem to suggest that the Vibe needs a thicker coat of paint. What you really want is a thin and strong coat of paint, as Hot Vibe suggests. Applying too many layers of paint is bad because you will end up with giant chunks of paint chipping away every time a stone hits your hood. (Think of old furniture that has been painted many times over and how easily the paint chips off vs. new wood furniture that gets lighter chips and scratches.)

[Craigmri]

After spending another full day messaging every nook and cranny of our Monotone Neptune I'm really pleased with my paint quality with the exception of the paint on the front bumper. Its not shiney enough even after the three step process. My wife doesnt drive alot so chances are our wont have the same degree of chipping problems many others have experienced.I am really happy that at this point there is ZERO acid rain in the paint. IN the past even new cars I've bought have had some etching in the paint from Acid rain but our Monotone Neptune is perfect so my job is to try to keep it that way. BTW we keep ours in a garage.

[Stang2Vibe]

Regarding the lack of shine on the bumpers, you should refer to my post above. They are not clearcoated and therefore will not have quite the depth or shine that the painted metal parts have.