So, apparently Pontiac doesn't want to promote the Vibe...

[ned23]

I visited the N. American Auto Show in Detroit today. Of course, I stopped by the Pontiac section to see the vibe...GM had what was about the lamest Vibe they could find there. It was the lamest car out of any of the US automakers. It was a gray base model back in a corner that did not even have aluminum wheels. It was the only car I saw in the show that wasn't Chinese that did not have nice aluminum wheels. No grocery organizer, basic radio. It was kind of depressing. There was no 2.4 litre and no Vibe GT. I guess it says that GM is not really keen on making the Vibe part of their brand identification.

[Raven]

They sell themselves.

[ou.grizzly]

This has been an ongoing issue with Pontiac and the Vibe as they really never did show Vibe commercials. Sad really.

[Amtron]

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »This has been an ongoing issue with Pontiac and the Vibe as they really never did show Vibe commercials. Actually, I used to see loads of Vibe commercials! Like the one for the '09s where the girl is driving a black one by the water and there was a twisty mountain road...great description, I know...I think there was surfboards involved too? Haha, anyways, I used to see that one a lot, and one with a red '09.

[ColonelPanic]

GM's marketing of this car has been utterly pathetic from the get-go... I'm not surprised one bit that they've continued that trend with the new model - which by my thinking could have been a great time to make a fresh start.They hate this car.

[jake75]

At the March 2008 Columbus Auto Show there was one 2009 Vibe - and it was locked up tight. Could not even sit in it. There were two 2009 Matrix models - not locked up.I think the current Matrix rebate is $1500 vs. $500 for the Vibe, but Vibe does have the $1,000 loyalty rebate, and a $1,000 rebate for those who have a lease coming due soon. Then we have the topped off GM Card rebate (if you have a GM Master Card), and also obviously some hidden incentive money that is showing up in big dealer (like $2,500 to $2,850) discounts at least here in Columbus.I don't understand the marketing strategy. It is not like GM is buying Vibes from Toyota - that plant is a joint venture.

[northvibe]

yeah not sure why they arent marketing their best mpg car with most room....wonder if its the best selling pontiac last year...anyway yeah they titanically failboat on marketing this car... which is SAD

[jake75]

My recollection is that the Vibe is currently 20% of Pontiac's unit sales.

[vibolista]

GM has never known how to market small cars. Sad? More like pathetic. In other markets, not U.S., you can order and buy a small car loaded with all the 'goodies' that are normally available on their bigger, more expensive offerings. GM is run by a bunch of idiots. Look what they have done to the company and where they are right now.In most other markets, even if you want a smaller more frugal engine with your choice of car... you can still get sport leather seats, sunroofs, climate control, alloys, you name it. In GM land, if you want a small car, it's almost the law that it only be available as a stripped out, low end, nearly no options available car. I'm glad I got my 08, 1.8L, because it was available with almost everything I wanted. Go on Pontiac's web site and build yourself the 1.8L Vibe. No sun/moon roof, no alloys, no fold flat front passenger seat, no Monsoon radio package, no spoiler. Almost no options, unless I missed something. Try VW Europe and build a Polo, or any of the super efficient small cars available from their manufacturers over there. It's surprising. What's not one bit surprising to me, is the Basic Gray Vibe stuck in the corner of the most prestigious car shows in our country. Way to go GM. There's no excuse for that.

[kostby]

Pontiac senior management (and way too many local dealerships) are pretty clueless about the Vibe and it's been that way since Day 1 of 2002. If you look at Vibe sales figures posted in the Latest News forum, 2005 was the best year ever with 64,271 Vibes sold, and the most Vibes Pontiac ever sold in one month was 8924 in July of 2005. WHY THEN? Because of rebates and incentives! I can't even imagine how such a great car ever escaped the design studio and saw the light of day in the showroom.I just saw the G3 announced for 'Spring 2009' on the Pontiac website. (Think Aveo with a Pontiac grille)IF GM survives, but kills off Pontiac, could the Vibe become a Chevy?No. No. No. No. No. And No. Here's why:1a) The Vibe is manufactured in the Peoples Republic of Collie-for-knee-yah, one of the most inhospitable locations on the planet for manufacturing, because of outrageous environmental regulations 1b) Collie-for-knee-yahns and Collie-for-knee-yahn businesses pay extreme taxes (likely about to go up, given Collie-for-knee-yahs economic woes), and 1c) Collie-for-knee-yah is home to The Ninth Circus (Yeah, I know) Court of Appeals who regularly creates law out of whole cloth.2) The Vibe is too much like the HHR, (even though it's NOTHING like the HHR).3) Chevy doesn't have an entry-level 2-seater (Solstice), so they'd probably take that model first4) Chevy would take the G-8 second, because they don't really have a hot 4-door rear-wheel-drive sedan. They'd put a Chevy nose on it and call it an Impala SS again.5) Chevy would take the G-6 convertible third, because they don't have a mid-size convertible at the moment.6) By that time, GM is out if time and out of (borrowed government) money.

[ned23]

I think it was pretty clear from what I saw on the floor of the show that Pontiac has VERY GRUDGINGLY accepted the success of the Vibe and that they definitely do not want the Vibe business model to set the standard for future cars they sell. I wish I'd gotten a picture.

[lowincash]

the lesser they sell the better =P i like being one of the few with the vibe lol but i guess it's just my area...vibe's aren't too popular and i hardly ever see a vibe except last week saw a 09 white GT in the morning and a 09 black GT on my way home from work. rare car in my area and i like to keep it that way

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »My recollection is that the Vibe is currently 20% of Pontiac's unit sales. Well, if I had to guess, I'd say they're really irritated that's the case. Based on how they snubbed the Vibe at the international Auto show, I wouldn't be surprised if there is no 3rd Generation Vibe. Quote, originally posted by kistby »I just saw the G3 announced for 'Spring 2009' on the Pontiac website. (Think Aveo with a Pontiac grille) Yes, it looked like they want the G3 to be their premier compact. The thing is, it's no Vibe. The seats don't fold flat, IIRC, it's not as roomy, and even the fuel economy compared to cargo, passenger space, etc. is not competitive. Quote, originally posted by Raven »They sell themselves.And I think Pontiac would rather not have to sell them. I think it reminds GM of their failing models.

[jake75]

If to raise cash GM sold their NUMMI interest to Toyota that would probably sink the Vibe. On the one hand that is a UAW plant so maybe Toyota wouldn't want it. On the other hand, the UAW wages/benefits level may soon not be such a burden.Another question is whether the Vibe is profitable. My guess is GM didn't make much profit on the 2003 I bought, and they certainly didn't make any money on my recent purchase of a 2009.Of course "profit" is hard to determine because "cost" is hard to determine. It depends on how a company allocates their fixed costs. Any business aims to cover fixed costs and marginal costs plus some profit. However, in the short run if you can make a sale that exceeds marginal cost (also referred to as variable cost) you are better off than not having made that sale at all - it at least absorbs some of the fixed costs. But in t he long run you go bankrupt if you can't cover both marginal and fixed costs.Economists describe perfect competition as a situation where everything is sold at marginal cost - but in the long run everyone goes bankrupt under that scenario.This leads to another issue - is the price that GM needs to charge for a Vibe to cover fixed and marginal costs competitive. Without all the incentives etc. I think I likely would have kept my 2003 or moved on to something else. When you get to $20,000 for a fairly basic configuration (1.8L, ac. at, ppkg) there are a lot of other viable choices.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »If to raise cash GM sold their NUMMI interest to Toyota that would probably sink the Vibe. On the one hand that is a UAW plant so maybe Toyota wouldn't want it. On the other hand, the UAW wages/benefits level may soon not be such a burden.I was under the impression that NUMMI was non-union.Quote » Another question is whether the Vibe is profitable. My guess is GM didn't make much profit on the 2003 I bought, and they certainly didn't make any money on my recent purchase of a 2009...When you get to $20,000 for a fairly basic configuration (1.8L, ac. at, ppkg) there are a lot of other viable choices.Good question. I don't think they made much on my recent purchase. I got a fairly loaded 2.4L for an out-the-door price of almost exactly 20k. Seemed like an awfully good bargain.

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by ned23 »I was under the impression that NUMMI was non-union.Good question. I don't think they made much on my recent purchase. I got a fairly loaded 2.4L for an out-the-door price of almost exactly 20k. Seemed like an awfully good bargain. I think that someone on this board works there and said it was union. I could be wrong,Me - '09 1.8 ac at ppkg MSRP $19,480 out the door $13,314 thanks in part to $3,000 GM topped off GM Card points.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »I think that someone on this board works there and said it was union. I could be wrong,Me - '09 1.8 ac at ppkg MSRP $19,480 out the door $13,314 thanks in part to $3,000 GM topped off GM Card points.Well, I'll tell you what. You got a great car. I walked all over the floor of the Auto show yesterday and I did not see very many cars that had the same combination of gas mileage, power, interior room and fit/finish for the price that compared to the Vibe/Matrix. In fact, I can't think of any that quite matched it in all categories. The Honda Fit gets about the same mileage as a 1.8L Vibe!! (27-33) It's dinky and has a solid rear axle!I felt pretty good when I left.

[kunkstyle]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »I just saw the G3 announced for 'Spring 2009' on the Pontiac website. (Think Aveo with a Pontiac grille)That's been available as the Pontiac Wave in Canada since '05. The '09 models are now being known as the G3 Wave here. Both the Chevy and Pontiac versions are rebadged versions of the Daewoo Kalos.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by ned23 »I was under the impression that NUMMI was non-union.When I took the factory tour a couple years ago they emphasized that they were UAW and gave the local number. But they also indicated that management/union relations were very different than they had been under GM previously and that many of the changes were a requirement for the joint venture to go forward.

[tnpartsguy]

Nummi is a thorn in GM's side. GM has never promoted the GM branded products from that plant. The Prism was treated as Chevrolet's redheaded/left-handed step child as well. Gm never advertised the Vibe as being it's highest MPG car (as it was in '06 and '07). I think they suffer from the Not Invented Here disease. The Aveo/G3 suck. The Cobalt/G5 is a much better car, with better fuel economy.Today, Fiat and Chrysler announced their plan to join forces. Can you imagine the next "Neon" being based on Fiat's very successful and safe 500? Too bad GM can't swallow it's pride and let the Vibe be a leader.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »Can you imagine the next "Neon" being based on Fiat's very successful and safe 500?I take it this is a very different model from the FIAT 500 I remember from the '60s:It was a tiny car with a 500 cc motor and a top speed of about 50 mph. Kind of appealing, but 'safe' is not a term that was usually used in connection with it.

[jake75]

I remember Fiat having a reputation just slightly better than Yugo. Many years ago, in the 70's I think, a local liquidator bought a literal boatload of Fiat 4 dr sedans and sold them dirt cheap - like 50% of their retail at the time. Must have been just a couple thousand as I think I bought a new 1978 Chevette 4-dr hatchback - auto but no air, for about $4,200. As I remember a new 1977 Buick Estate Wagon cost me about $5,800.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »Nummi is a thorn in GM's side. GM has never promoted the GM branded products from that plant. The Prism was treated as Chevrolet's redheaded/left-handed step child as well. Gm never advertised the Vibe as being it's highest MPG car (as it was in '06 and '07). I think they suffer from the Not Invented Here disease. The Aveo/G3 suck. The Cobalt/G5 is a much better car, with better fuel economy.That's sad, because it's my understanding that GM actually designed most of the car that wasn't the drivetrain/platform. A lot of the features in the car like the flat-folding rear seats had appeared in GM concept vehicles, previously, as I recall. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. One of the main purposes of the Joint venture was so that Toyota could learn how to design cars for the American Market while GM could learn how to build platforms for small cars and save money on "platform" development by using Toyota's mechanicals.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by lowincash »the lesser they sell the better =P i like being one of the few with the vibe lol but i guess it's just my area...vibe's aren't too popular and i hardly ever see a vibe except last week saw a 09 white GT in the morning and a 09 black GT on my way home from work. rare car in my area and i like to keep it that way I'm seeing a LOT of Vibes around here, lately. I was stuck in snowy traffic last week and there was a Vibe in front of me and a Vibe next to me. I routinely pass 2 or 3 Vibes in my parking garage on the way to work in the morning. There's a Fusion one and a Salsa one that park in the same corner I do.

[vibolista]

Fiat is slightly changed since the 1970's. Not immune from bad economic times, but it is going to give Chrysler a shot at survival, by allowing Chrysler to use Fiat technology to produce fuel efficient vehicles for our country. These cars will probably end up much like the Matrix/ Vibe... Fiat running gear and Chrysler designed body and interiors for domestic sale. Could be a good thing for our workers.Let's all hope it flies.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by vibolista »Fiat running gear and Chrysler designed body and interiors for domestic sale. Could be a good thing for our workers. ...unless you work at one of Chrysler's the engine plants

[vibolista]

I think we better hope the company doesn't go belly up. That would mean... all workers would suffer and a long lived American company dissapears.

[jake75]

The Fiat deal is conditioned on another 3 mil in govt. loans to Chrysler. Congress may balk at the Italians telling them what to do.

[rAERRK]

have you seen the new vibes? i wouldnt want to promote it either

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by rAERRK »have you seen the new vibes? i wouldnt want to promote it eitherI thought the Vibes were really competitive with other cars I saw at the show. The 2009 2.4L Vibe is competive with cars costing $26-$27k. Maybe it's too cheap? It's saddled with a "compact" size rating but competes favorably with many smaller mid-size vehicles in form and function.

[jake75]

I was briefly tempted to pay $720 more for a 2.4L - primarily because they had one in a color I liked a little better. But even though I don't drive a lot of miles the fuel economy issue became the overriding factor (1.8L rated 4 mpg better for city driving). I believe gas will return to $4 sooner than we think.As for the 2.4L being competitive with cars costing $26-27,000, I think those other cars probably include ones such as the Honda CRV that I consider to be in a different class (actually I think a decent CRV can be had for less than $26,000). Also, if I had to pay anywhere near MSRP for a Vibe I think I would have moved down a notch to the Honda Fit, or up a notch to the CRV. But with the deals the Vibe was significantly less than the Fit so that decision was a no brainer, and the difference was more than enough to offset the slightly better mpg of the Fit.

[NascarXprt]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »IF GM survives, but kills off Pontiac, could the Vibe become a Chevy?No. No. No. No. No. And No. Here's why:1a) The Vibe is manufactured in the Peoples Republic of Collie-for-knee-yah, one of the most inhospitable locations on the planet for manufacturing, because of outrageous environmental regulations 1b) Collie-for-knee-yahns and Collie-for-knee-yahn businesses pay extreme taxes (likely about to go up, given Collie-for-knee-yahs economic woes), and 1c) Collie-for-knee-yah is home to The Ninth Circus (Yeah, I know) Court of Appeals who regularly creates law out of whole cloth.2) The Vibe is too much like the HHR, (even though it's NOTHING like the HHR).3) Chevy doesn't have an entry-level 2-seater (Solstice), so they'd probably take that model first4) Chevy would take the G-8 second, because they don't really have a hot 4-door rear-wheel-drive sedan. They'd put a Chevy nose on it and call it an Impala SS again.5) Chevy would take the G-6 convertible third, because they don't have a mid-size convertible at the moment.6) By that time, GM is out if time and out of (borrowed government) money. but they wont! they have told the press that pontiac is here to stay but only a s niche brand, which means keeping the Vibe (but still not promoting it ), the G8, Solstice coupe and convert., and the G5(?? Why ??). its to only have 4 vehicles. and this year they are giving GM the Torrent, i believe.

[2005-Viber]

I did see an on-line article yesterday about a police department switching from their Crown Vic's to Vibe GTs ... as their police vehicles.

[NascarXprt]

Welcome! and did they way which state or city it was??

[Wolfman213]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._cars

[jake75]

by JIM SUHR, Associated Press Writer Jim Suhr, Associated Press Writer – Wed Jan 21, 6:37 am ETCahokia police chief Richard Watson poses for a photo with his department's new AP – Cahokia police chief Richard Watson poses for a photo with his department's new Pontiac Vibe GT Tuesday, …CAHOKIA, Ill. – Police Chief Richard Watson admits his department's newest patrol car is a curious departure from its big-horsepower Ford Crown Victorias. But the four-cylinder Pontiac Vibe GT has plenty of pep for policing, he said, and gets twice the gas mileage.Law enforcement agencies across the country looking for ways to cut corners and reduce costs after last year's $4-a-gallon gas are increasingly turning to more fuel-efficient cars.While few expect that more muscular cruisers like the Crown Victorias or Dodge Chargers will be replaced altogether, there's little confidence gasoline will stay below $2 a gallon much longer."I thought this is the time to do it," Watson said.In Florida's tiny Gulf Breeze, Police Chief Peter Paulding is pursuing a state grant to replace the internal combustion engines in three of his department's 20 Crown Victorias with electric motors. He wants to see if the greener engines withstand the rigors of police work.Salt Lake City police recently added five 2009 Toyota Camry hybrids to their fleet, looking to save as much as $20,000 a year. The police chief called the hybrids "necessary" and worth putting through their paces, each decked out with the department's logo and lights."To some degree, everybody's looking at alternatives," said Russell Laine, police chief in Algonquin, Ill., and the president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police.Atlanta-based Carbon Motors Corp. has designed a prototype car it touts as being designed just for police. The angular E7 — nicknamed the "Machine" — evokes images of "Robo Cop." Its bells and whistles include flashers built into the car's body for aerodynamics to the twin-turbo diesel engine said to use 40 percent less fuel than Crown Victorias.But it's unclear when the E7 might hit the market, if at all. So police are making do, in Watson's case with the Vibe.Watson might be a guinea pig, of sorts. When he told others at an FBI training program a year ago that he was going to experiment with a more economical patrol car, he was met with raised eyebrows and skeptics aplenty."They wanted to get all my statistics once we start running this car and see how it performs and all that," he says. "Nobody wants to jump out there and do it; they don't want to take the effort, time and money."The Pontiac he settled on has a 2.4-liter engine and gets 21 miles to the gallon in town; he figures that's more than twice the mileage his department's 30 Crown Victorias deliver with their 4.6-liter powerhouses.He said the Vibe's fuel economy will be logged over the next year or so to determine whether the initiative sinks or swims.And though the new car required some custom work, including a plexiglass barrier between the driver's compartment and the back seat, the car's total tab of about $24,000 still was slightly cheaper than what a fully, police-equipped Crown Victoria would have cost.Watson expects the Vibe to do it all — even pursuits, though he figures those don't happen very often in the St. Louis suburb of about 15,000."We all anticipate that it'll have great performance. But until you actually test it in real-life conditions, you don't know," said Watson.In Gulf Breeze, where police overspent their fuel budget by 20 percent last year, Paulding expects to learn next month whether he'll get the grant to retrofit three of his gas-powered police cruisers with electric motors.Although he's confident the speed and acceleration of the repowered vehicles would pass muster in policing, the bigger question might be how much range the vehicles have on a battery's charge. Paulding says a police cruiser in his city of about 6,000 rolls up 60 to 100 miles on a typical patrol shift.He says that's possible for an electric-powered car, though the vehicles might be less sensible for state troopers who can log hundreds of miles a day."We don't think we're going to be able to get away from gas-powered cars totally," Paulding said. "But we think we could convert at least some of our fleet, and we think that most police departments could convert at least some of their fleet to these electric vehicles."If it works, Paulding says, the possibilities are endless in a nation with some 15,000 municipal police departments."There's an unlimited supply of used police cars," to potentially retool with electric batteries instead of building new cruisers, he says. "The Crown Victoria, for us, is a suitable police car, a suitable platform. If we can retrofit the vehicle power supply as opposed to changing everything, we'd have the performance, the size and be more economical."That, he thinks, "could be a whole new way of communities fulfilling their transportation needs for their police departments."

[clm22]

I was at the San Francisco International Auto show in November and they not only had three Vibes on display (and open), but a red GT was on the centerpiece turntable and a guy was doing a promo/description of the car every 20 minutes or so. The had G8's and G3's but the Vibe was center stage. At the 07 SF show, they also had a Vibe GT on a display stand.At the San Jose show a few weeks ago, the had one GT on display.

[jake75]

1. Maybe they think Californians are more interested in a Vibe like vehicle.2. Also maybe the fact that it is assembled in California makes a difference.Sort of like how could you have an auto show in Vermont without featuring the Subaru line.

[vibolista]

If you watch TV news reports showing events in other countries, check out the cars that their police drive... even smaller than Vibes. In Germany years ago, I saw (old school) Beetles used as police cars. Of course, you can stuff a small Porsche engine in one of those things. A little tough on the owners psyche, having their BMW or Mercedes chased down and pulled over by a cop in a Beetle.Don't know about Vibes popularity in California. Seems a pretty utilitarian/pedestrian vehicle for that highfalutin crowd!

[ColonelPanic]

Probably NUMMI's close proximity had something to do with the San Fransisco show. I think it would make sense for them to showcase a product that directly benefits the local economy.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by vibolista »In Germany years ago, I saw (old school) Beetles used as police cars. Of course, you can stuff a small Porsche engine in one of those things. A little tough on the owners psyche, having their BMW or Mercedes chased down and pulled over by a cop in a Beetle.Don't know about Vibes popularity in California. Seems a pretty utilitarian/pedestrian vehicle for that highfalutin crowd! The old Beetles were by no means the smallest police cars there. I remember the Isettas (2-seater where the whole front opens up to get in and two tiny wheels side-by-side in the back) with 300cc engines that frequently hid behind shrubbery at the entrance to towns where the speed limit dropped to 50 kph. Of course if anyone tried to outrun these (which wouldn't be hard), there were also Mercedes and even Porsches available in response to a radio call.As to the popularity of Vibes in California, I don't see very many around here and we live about 20 miles from NUMMI. Matrices are far more popular in this area.

[lowincash]

Quote, originally posted by prathman »As to the popularity of Vibes in California, I don't see very many around here and we live about 20 miles from NUMMI. Matrices are far more popular in this area.i'm in los angeles and the vibes are very rare here too...first gen and second gen...both are very rare. i sort of hope they keep it this way because i like having a car not many people have lol but hopefully the don't drop pontiac =/

[ClunkClunk]

I'm about four miles from NUMMI, and while I do see quite a few Vibes, I see about an equal number of Matrices on the road in Fremont.In Pleasanton where I work and San Jose where I go to school, I see about 2 Matrices to every Vibe.Not as many '09s as I'd like to see either

[Merzbow]

Yeah I went to the preshow and I agree with you. They had the lowest model Vibe possible, WAY in the back, with HUB CAPS! I didn't even look at it because I was kind of sad. Since it was the preshow there weren't that many people there so no people were anywhere near it.

[vibolista]

Quote, originally posted by prathman »The old Beetles were by no means the smallest police cars there. I remember the Isettas (2-seater where the whole front opens up to get in and two tiny wheels side-by-side in the back) with 300cc engines that frequently hid behind shrubbery at the entrance to towns where the speed limit dropped to 50 kph. Of course if anyone tried to outrun these (which wouldn't be hard), there were also Mercedes and even Porsches available in response to a radio call. By the time I was in Germany, the Isettas were either in museums or collector garages. Great little cars. The Beetles were at the end of their police duty, but they still had some nice 911s for pursuit. Without the Isettas, they began to use civilian looking BMW 2002ti's and similar cars, parked along the side of roads equipped with speed guns and cameras. Then a quarter to a half mile down the road, the welcoming committee would pull anyone pushing that posted limit to the side for a talk and a ticket. Back on topic... if California has few Vibes, it's because they are over here in Maine. People in this state really go for utility type vehicles and all wheel drive cars like Subaru wagons. There are plenty of 'trixes, but there are definitely more Vibes here, and I'm starting to see quite a few 09's now.