HID Conversion

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:50 am

Hi everyone,First, I apologize if I'm posting this in the wrong spot... I am still pretty new to this (as my post count reflects). My name is Ben, I own a 2004 Vibe with M&T. I've been reading up on the HID conversions, but to save my wallet I purchased Silverstars. I ordered them on Amazon for $25 and have yet to install them, but the discussion about their life is making me realize they may not be the best answer to the OEMs. I see there have been discussions about the HID kits, but I don't exactly follow them. Some say you'll lose hi beam, and it all just seems a bit confusing to me. I am just lookign for something thats going to put out A LOT of light, allow me to still have my hi beams and fogs, and be relatively cheap and easy to install (the plug and play type).Could anyone PLEASE direct me to something that will be this easy and effective? I have located these (again, on Amazon) http://www.amazon.com/Xenpro-c...r=8-1 . Anyone know if this will still let me have my hi beams and my fogs? To have my hi beams also HID, would I need to purchase something else? Thanks so much,BenP.S this topic was posted in another area, I have simply re-posted for better visibility. I apologize for it being now in two areas.

Whelan · Post by **Whelan** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:07 am

The issue with your HIDs, welcome by the way, is that on a Vibe you utilize a single lamp system. Meaning you have one bulb for hi and lo. Unlike me with my Matrix using two bulbs, one for hi and one for lo. That gives me a price advantage with an HID kit (under $100 easily) since I can put just a set for my lo beams and keep my highs. On a Vibe you have a 9003 bulb which has two filaments (hi and lo) as said above. So you have one main option to properly do the HID conversion. Purchase what is called a bi-xenon HID system. What that means is that your HID will operate both hi and lo beam on the same bulb. You may have heard many luxury cars like BMW, MB, Audi call their systems bi-xenon. Well that is what they mean, an HID that does both hi and lo from the same bulb. I am not 100% on this but I do believe if you put a bulb to fit a 9003 socket in your lamp that is HID and just a low beam, it is feasible but you will lose your high beams altogether. I am not 100% on this since I own a Matrix, but I would imagine you would first have to find a 9003 bulb that is simply low beam only in HID.That bi-xenon puts the cost over $100, somewhere in the $135-150 range for a decent set from Ebay. As for your fogs, you won't lose them regardless. They are on a separate switch on your column and thus will operate as they normally do. That ad you see I am not familiar with Xenpro. I have Xentec which have lasted me many many months and through a harsh winter so far with low temps and no issues. I got my kit on Ebay for $70. also note that 10k is not what you want for a beam (I would hope). Pay notice as this will be another important factor.The ads that say 6000K, 8000K, 4300K, etc. are referring to the color of the beam. The K stands for Kelvin as in the Kelvin color temperature scale, it determines temperature by color. Most OEM HID kits you see on luxo-cars use a 4300K system. They may have a bluish or purplish hue to them but that is because of the projector lens being used. So for aftermarket kits, they have color temps to match this look since most people put them in crystal lenses like ours.3000K - yellow4300K - white6000K - whitish/hint of bluish purple8000K - blue10000K - purple13000K - pinkAlso take note, that just because you have an HID does not mean it is brighter. 4300K and 6000K are the best for brightness and usable light. 8k is not horrible but you start to lose out vs. a good halogen brand. And over that you are just going for pure looks with the coloring and maybe asking to get pulled over. Keeping the coloring close to what they would be stock is key to keeping yourself ticket free. Since aftermarket HID kits are for show or off road use (state on the boxes). The reason being is that our headlamps were not really designed for an HID bulb since it has no light shield it can scatter and cause annoyances to other drivers in some scenarios.The true scale of light output is in a rating called Lumens. A lumen is what is used to rate the actual output/brightness of a bulb. A typical stock halogen puts out 700 lumens, a typical high beam around 1100-1200. An HID bulb on low beam is good for anywhere from 1100-1400 lumens depending. Also be wary of the brands you purchase, some people make kits that last a few months then crap the bed, others wont work out of the box. So do your research as you are now and read up on what kind of kits others here have and where they got them. Nothing is a better tool for purchasing the right products than a forum such as this. Some people have even opted to go the more expensive route of retro-fitting. What that entails is literally opening up the headlamp assemble, fitting in a pair of projector lenses from say an Audi or Acur (most popular brands to use), then installing an HID kit. The benefits of this are that you are now running a 100% legal HID setup with a light cutoff and getting the full effect and use of an HID bulb. They also look really cool when done right. The downside is the expense and time needed to create them. Some companies make said projector lenses for cars aftermarket, but they are usually cheap and the projectors are not up to par as they should be. I'm sure I'll add more later once others start posting. But that is a good start.

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:23 am

Whew. Quite a bit of information in there. I really appreciate it.You hit the nail right on the head in terms of price. I'm looking to spend somewhere less than $200. So without going well above that price range, it seems bi-xenon (non projectors) is my only option. (I can only imagine the time, energy, and cost it would take to retrofit a projector) In fact, during me writing this response, I noted that the projectors themselves start at roughly $150.As far as the 10K, you are absolutely correct that is NOT what I want as a beam. 80K seems to be more... me. But alas, if the HIDs won't really do much for me without retrofitting, would you then say it is best to probably just use the Silverstars? As far as I've read, they're about as close to HID as you can get without actually going HID. Thanks again

Wolfman213 · Post by **Wolfman213** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:25 am

to add to what Whelan has mentioned, if you get a single beam HID beam, you will lose the functionality of the highs. I purchased a kit from HIDKing on ebay for my Grand Prix. It was a bi-xenon kit 6000K and it has been solid for well over a year and I even have my ballasts in the grill, which I don't recommend. I also have HID fogs that I purchased from him as well and they are still working great. I would recommend the 6000K if you are looking for great output with a lil bit of looks. Keithvibe on here had a group buy for projectors with bi-xenon hids for $235 which is an excellent price, but the group buy has ended. I'm sure if he ends up doing a round 2 that he will let everyone know.

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:46 am

Okay, so I think I get it.Correct me if I'm wrong, bi-xenon lights will still allow functionality for both high and low beam. If this is true though, will they still be significantly brighter than a hologen bulb (even without projectors?)If I am correct, and they will still be brighter than plain old halogens (or come close to the silverstars, if not surpass), then could someone please point me in the direction of a decent 60k or even 80k bi xenon conversion kit for under $250.00 I'm looking, but it seems tough.Thanks a lot!

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:37 am

Quote, originally posted by raphide Â»Okay, so I think I get it.Correct me if I'm wrong, bi-xenon lights will still allow functionality for both high and low beam. If this is true though, will they still be significantly brighter than a hologen bulb (even without projectors?)If I am correct, and they will still be brighter than plain old halogens (or come close to the silverstars, if not surpass), then could someone please point me in the direction of a decent 60k or even 80k bi xenon conversion kit for under $250.00 I'm looking, but it seems tough.Thanks a lot!Yes bi-xenon means dule so you keep both hi- and low beam.Yes, compairing Halogen output to HID's, it's like driving with candles and flood lights. Once you go HID you NEVER go back!!They will be hands down brighter than the crappy SS.I have my old bi-xenon hids that were in my car if your interested. 120. plus shipping.NOW..... if you want to wait I am looking at doing a round two of the projectors. Should be a month or two before I put it together again. But if you want to see how they look do a search for posted created by me and you will see tons of photos.

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:42 am

I actually did see your older post with the photos.I saw the three photos. I was a bit confused as to what each was, even though they were marked. One was your wife's SS, the other was the HIDs without projectors and one was with projectors?That being the case, while everything I read seems to be very PRO projectors, and I would love to, I am simply not adept enough to put those projectors in. A mod such as that would just simply kill me.As far as your "old" HIDs go, I assume they use no projector, would fit a Vibe (2004), and include everything I need? PM me about them, as I'm interested. Though I think I'd like to go new... simply because I'd like to pay with a credit card, not my checking account. And last, I am concerned about the remaining bulb life. One last question, as I know I'm bleeding this topic dry. Once these HIDs are installed, where would one hide the ballasts? I've read that hiding in the grill is bad, so is there some place else thats well...better?Thanks so much.

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:58 am

you are correctOne photo is with the projectors this photo should stand out from the rest with the clean cut off line, one is with the standard plug and play kit, one is with my wifes SS in her cavalier.You can hide the ballasts any place you chose as long as you have enough cable to do so. Most are cables are about 1.5feet longI had mine mounted directly on the support crash bar. I now have them mounted to my inner fender.My old HID's would fit all the vibes, with the exception of the 09's. Your more than welcome to go the new route. Going with projectors you won't blind people coming twards you at night as you may with plug and play kits because of the excess glare that the plug and play kits produce.Your in jackson NJ.... I can help you do the install if you wanted to take the trip to the Lehigh valley PA You are only 1.5hrs away from me.-edit- make that 1.5-2hrs away

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:04 am

That's becoming more and more intriguing. Although to be honest, I don't know how much help I could be seeing as the extent of my car savvyness is oil changes. I'd be willing to pay, obviously.When you do these group buys, is it just the projector or is it the projector, bulbs, etc? Also, I assume you want payment through cash or some other means, not by CC. Cash is short for me nowadays so credit is my only option Thanks.

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:08 am

check out the very first pagehttp://matrixowners.com/?showtopic=79241The kit has everything you need. Projectors, wire harness, bulbs, ballasts, new headlight sealant.

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:19 am

I must say that's VERY nice looking (I liked the pictures of how your headlights looked afterwards)This, I am interested in. Please let me know when you will be starting this group buy again. I'll be in line.

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:23 am

should be about a month or two... for the new round.

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:24 am

Sounds good. I'll wait till then.For now, I guess I'll just use the SS (assuming they'll last that long )

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:27 am

If you want another pair of SS... let me know I have a set that is about a week old... HAHA

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:29 am

i think i'm good

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:35 am

One last question for you, before I let you go. My driver side headlight has quite a bit of moisture in it. If I'm going to be dropping in these projectors, should I be concerned about the moisture? There isn't a LOT but it's created a bit of haze on the headlight and you can see water beads on the turn signals. I'd rather not pay 200+ for a new headlight assembly. What I was thinking of is that if these kits come with a new sealant (which is really all I need to fix this problem IMO), then when the headlight assembly is open, I could clean out the moisture, get the electrical work done, and then re-seal, ending this problem. Or am I wrong with this assumption?

Wolfman213 · Post by **Wolfman213** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:53 am

you are correct with your assumption, considering it is the sealant and not a tiny crack or something along those line somewhere in the housing or lens

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:17 am

and any moisture in the headlamp will most likely be heated off by the heat from the projectors. It won't effect the projectors output by any means unless your headlamp is filled with water lol

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:35 am

Let's just hope they don't go swimming.

lowincash · Post by **lowincash** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:08 am

actually in the long run, you might get slightly more glare from the projectors if too much moister gets in. on my previous car i had tsx projectors retrofitted and the headlights weren't sealed correctly. whenever i wash my car one side will get foggy and i guess it also made the projector lense foggy too so after a while it has a layer of stuff on it and sort of made the projectors not as sharp and slightly more glare. just make sure you seal them up good and you shouldn't worry about it =D

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:43 am

I feared that in the back of mind. I'm looking into buying a new headlight, or used one. Just as long as it doesn't already have the haze on it or the moisture, I may go spend $100 to protect the investment, although I don't really see them all that cheap.

lowincash · Post by **lowincash** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:14 am

i'm having a retrofit done on my 09 as well but couldn't find spare headlights so i ended up buying it from the dealer at $250 each =/ are you getting a projector retrofit too? this time i'm going to use fx35 bixenon instead of tsx...after being in my friend's TL i love the bixenon lol

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:16 am

yeah, I'm gonna wait to get the group buy I think.My brother actually has an '08 TL type S. I love those headlights. A lot. But I've read they're too big to retrofit.

kunkstyle · Post by **kunkstyle** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:43 am

@keithvibedo the bi-xenons you had in that group buy disable the DRL funtion?

Wolfman213 · Post by **Wolfman213** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:11 pm

the bi-xenons do not disable the DRL, you will have to do that according to the other threads on here. From what I remember though, there are a couple of different suggestions on how to do it, with the end result all being the same, however I can't remember what is the "best" way.

GoodVibErations2004 · Post by **GoodVibErations2004** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:23 pm

do you HAVE to disable DRL's for the bi-xenon HID's and Keithvibe are yors sill available? Ive got a friend in pittsburgh that could prolly pick them up and brig them to me when she comes to town.

Wolfman213 · Post by **Wolfman213** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:28 pm

you don't have to disable the DRLs, however, there is always the issue of flickering HID's due to the low voltage draw that DRL's use. I'm not sure what that can do to the ballast, but IMO better safe than sorry and go ahead and disable them. After a day or two or remembering to manually turn on your headlights, it becomes second nature again, like back in the day.

GoodVibErations2004 · Post by **GoodVibErations2004** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:30 pm

ok now does that mean if i disable drls i lose the automatic headlights? cuz i really want to keep that.p.s. i love this site. everyone is so helpful!

Wolfman213 · Post by **Wolfman213** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:33 pm

That one, i'm unsure on for the Vibe. I know I've ready it, but just can't remember. I know on my old Grand Prix, that once I disabled it, the auto lights where done with too. Please note thought that in that case, it was simply a fuse that needed to be pulled unlike the wire(s) that you must deal with on the Vibe.

lowincash · Post by **lowincash** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:58 pm

interesting about drl...my 09 has the drl in the high beam area but i'm going to be using fx35 bixenon projectors for my retrofit...if i have the bixenon funtion hooked up do you think it will move the shield when the drl is on?

lowincash · Post by **lowincash** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:59 pm

if you disable drl your auto lights are gone too...that's what i read from others...same with the 09's

Wolfman213 · Post by **Wolfman213** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:05 am

that would def be something to ask the guys over at MO. since the Trix's already have a dual light seat, like the 09's, they would be able to answer that better considering someone has done that yet. It was a topic that was brought up during the group buy over there, but I'm just unsure if anyone has actually found a way to tie them together yet without ruining anything.

GoodVibErations2004 · Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:12 am

2003 Pontiac Vibe (and Toyota Matrix), Toyota Corolla Automatic headlight and DRL disable information. DRL module located above brake pedal. Remove module. Cut connecting legs to the board, pins 19 & 20, to kill auto lights. >>>>Kill DRL, cut legs 10 and 11, leave board side of 10 open, connect board end of 11 to ground (external switch or to leg 2), connect outgoing 10 and 11 to each other. Method 2 Kill both DRL and auto lights, cut yellow wire (or leg 8 DRL relay), ground the module end of wire. The middle one that i selected seems to only kill drl and keep auto headlights but im not sure if it works. 2ruspeed tried this and had soeting not quite right with the auto headlights while driving into his garage, but driving out of his garage they turned off no problem. if soeone could see what the deal is with this/.......

Whelan · Post by **Whelan** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:18 am

The DRL kill I believe does kill the sensor for automatic headlights.The reason being is that the DRL is directly connected into the sensor so it knows when to switch off to regular headlamps from DRL. So bypassing DRL also bypasses the light sensor.

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:23 am

I'm not a huge fan of the DRLs to begin with. I feel as if just the inspection sticker sitting in front of the sensor causes it to switch to auto headlights far too early - sometimes on sunny days at high noon.I have also talked to my girlfriend, who has (of course) told me NOT to do the projectors, as she will be very upset if I spend that type of money - so back to the original idea of the plug and play. Does anyone know if doing the plug and play I need to do anything else?I'm going to be disabling the DRLs when I install the kit, but is there anything else that has to be done? Also, does anyone know how difficult it is to adjust the HIDs with these kits so as not to blind oncoming traffic while still keeping the headlights working well?edit - also, when looking at these kits if it says that it is 6000k is that because thats all it can handle, or is that just the bulb? (ie, can you change the bulb to a different brightness if wanted)

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:42 am

Quote, originally posted by raphide Â»I'm not a huge fan of the DRLs to begin with. I feel as if just the inspection sticker sitting in front of the sensor causes it to switch to auto headlights far too early - sometimes on sunny days at high noon.I have also talked to my girlfriend, who has (of course) told me NOT to do the projectors, as she will be very upset if I spend that type of money - so back to the original idea of the plug and play. Does anyone know if doing the plug and play I need to do anything else? just the time to do it.I'm going to be disabling the DRLs when I install the kit, but is there anything else that has to be done?maybe, readjust the headlights a tad bit lower Also, does anyone know how difficult it is to adjust the HIDs with these kits so as not to blind oncoming traffic while still keeping the headlights working well?use the stock adjustment, it can only go up or down.edit - also, when looking at these kits if it says that it is 6000k is that because thats all it can handle, or is that just the bulb? 6000k is the bulb color or (temp) look at whelans post and you will see(ie, can you change the bulb to a different brightness if wanted) not really brighter, but you can go whiter or bluer or purple for that matter

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:07 am

Sounds good. Any idea how long these kits usually take to do? From install to back to driving around? Anyone who has used these kits: Have you seen a significant difference in terms of light output?

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:36 am

Quote, originally posted by raphide Â»Sounds good. Any idea how long these kits usually take to do? From install to back to driving around? Anyone who has used these kits: Have you seen a significant difference in terms of light output? depends on your know how. 30mins to 1hr to do the install. If your drinking beers 3-4hrs HAHAHANight and day difference.

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:20 am

hahaha well of course, i never drink beer when doing work on the car... always shots. although with no garage, it seems i may need to wait till its a bit warmer outside. last question, i swear. i've heard horror stories about wire harnesses burning out, this is NOT the case im going to go through, right? i feel as if i asked this earlier and got a response, but alas, i have searched and did not see if i did ask it. perhaps it was just in the back of my mind. thanks everyone. very helpful.

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:35 am

stick with the 35watt HIDs and you will be fine... do not..let me repeat do not get the 55watt hids you will almost surly melt the harness

raphide · Post by **raphide** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:08 pm

I actually purchased a battery relay with a seperate fuse, etc just to give it a dedicated line. For peace of mind, I'll pay twenty bucks.

Amtron · Post by **Amtron** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:04 am

Thought I'd post this here instead of a new thread, but can anyone tell me how to convert my 9003 conversion kit into a 9006?

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:47 pm

Quote, originally posted by Amtron Â»Thought I'd post this here instead of a new thread, but can anyone tell me how to convert my 9003 conversion kit into a 9006?can you send me a photo of your wire harness?At the least you will need a new 9006 bulb. Till I see your wire harness I can't say exactly what you need to do to swap it over.

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:21 am

Quote, originally posted by keithvibe Â»stick with the 35watt HIDs and you will be fine... do not..let me repeat do not get the 55watt hids you will almost surly melt the harnessCould yo elaborate on this for me Keith?? If the stock bulb is 55/85, why would a 55w HID be a problem?? I mean I know that 99% of them are 35w... but why, if the system was designed for 55w would a 55w HID system cause anything to happen? The inrush of starting current?

Whelan · Post by **Whelan** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:02 am

Startup current for HIDs I figured would be fairly similar across the range. I didn't even know they made a 55W HID system. Seems kinds pointless if they can get the same results from 35W. Why put more draw on the system. Not to mention most automotive systems can handle a 55W halogen fairly easily. I wouldn't think it would take more than what it takes a 35W HID to startup.

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:59 am

the 55watt bulb is larger so it will throw off even more glare, they put off more heat and they do put out more light.so you have more chances of melting a housing, blinding people and melting the plug ends

HID Conversion

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