I'll never buy GM or quite possibly American again!!

[barvibe]

Up until this year I have always purchased import cars. I've had some issues with my Subaru in 2005 but other than that I have been happy with my Audi, VW, Honda, Toyota and Nissan. All new vehicles bought within the past 5 years.Recently with the economic downturn I thought I would give an American brand my money. To little to late? Maybe, but in the end I've been propping them up with my tax dollars anyway so why not just buy one and try to help ease the downturn for them.Even in buying from GM, I went with the import. That is I bought a 2009 Pontiac Vibe. 1.8L Auto with A/C power group.Since I purchased the car I have had nothing but issues with gas mileage. In most cases averaging over 60% decrease in mileage.Now to why I will never buy Gm or American again;I was told, and this is a direct quote from GM customer service: "If there aren't any engine or service lights on in the dashboard then as far as GM is concerned there is nothing wrong with your car."I asked for clarification and was told the same thing again.Gm then went on to say that they didn't care that I wasn't getting the mileage they advertised or even close to it.The woman I spoke to advised that even if the problem persists for the life of the car they will do NOTHING as long as service lights don't come on. They KNOW that the mileage numbers posted on sales stickers aren't correct and so should the consumer accroding to GM. But within 15% or so I should hope.After talking further with GM they then refused to advise me as to how I could procede with this, stating "look in your owners manual".This is how the American BIG THREE or going to get out of the malais they are in? I bought one car from them and will never buy another. Not only will I never buy one, but my immediate family, of close to 20 or so licenced drivers will never buy one.I look forward to the day when customer service is truly the one badge that companies try to keep shiniest through backing their product.

[ou.grizzly]

First of all, you are leaving out a lot of pertinent information:1. how long have you owned the vehicle?2. how many miles are on the vehicle?3. where do you drive; i.e. city or highway?4. what size tires/rims are on your Vibe?5. do you tend to brake quickly or speed up fast; as in your driving habits?6. are you letting your vehicle warm up and if so, what duration of time? 7. what is the recommended psi for the tires and are your tires at the correct psi?8. how many people are in the vehicle on a daily basis or cargo; what is the total weight of your passengers or the cargo being transported?Once you post this information, then we as a group here at GVC try to help by giving you tips, clues, and or advice. From my understanding, you have only contacted customer service and have not taken it to a dealer with your concerns, is this correct?

[barvibe]

Thanks for the prompt reponse!I'll answer all of your questions as best I can.1. I've owned the car for 2 months2. Threre are 4800kms on it (oil change done)3. 90% highway driving avg speed 118kmph4. standard 16" steel rims winter tires5. I don't brake or accelerate quickly6. I only warm the car for 5 minutesI know that some of the answers will be along the lines of break in period, cold weather etc.. I'm aware of that. However I don't think I should be getting 23.66 mpg (US gallon)

[ColonelPanic]

...and keep in mind that if there is a hardware problem, that is TOYOTA's fault and not GM... You could have bought an import in the form of, say, a Matrix or Corolla and could still be having these problems since it's all the same parts underneath the hood. GM's responsibility with the Vibe lies mainly with support of a Toyota-designed and built product, not so much from design standpoint (particularly mechanically!) And when problems do crop up that are design issues, remember that GM is at Toyota's mercy to get them fixed, they have no control over it. Yes, Toyotas can be problematic -- the Vibe I had was a prime example of that. A lot of the parts breaking had TOYOTA stamped all over them.For fuel economy, you can check into some hypermiling forums for tips on how to improve your mileage. There is plenty of info around here for it too... Some tips I use:-- Use a ScanGauge to consantly monitor FE and adjust driving accordingly. Buy one, well worth it.-- Increase tire pressure (I use a nice compromise between factory recommended and sidewall max.)-- Gently work the throttle, never give more gas than is absolutely necessary to maintain speed-- Let off the gas and coast whenever possible, minimize use of brakes.-- No excessive idling. In the summer, i was even shutting off at most long red lights. And always shut off at drive through's/etc. On cold winter mornings, I idle 30 seconds tops before hitting the road. At idle you are getting 0 MPG.Now, with your winter tires, I'm guessing they have more rolling resistance than all seasons would. Perhaps you'll see a boost when the spring comes. Winter is rough on FE as it is. I myself am having a rough one this winter, my averages have lost about 4 MPG on the Hyundai I drive.Your car is also very new, allow more time for it to break in then see if things improve.

[ou.grizzly]

Barvibe,Here is my take on it as I have quickly read through a few of your other threads. Lets see, 4800 km = 2900 miles give or take a few. 1. Give it it another oil change or another 4800 km and see if you notice with a difference in numbers. Let the vehicle get 10,000 km or 6,000 miles on it before making any conclusions. The engine is definitely not broken in at 4800 km or 3000 miles. 2. During the winter, fuel consumption tends to increase. I do know the temperatures will get colder, but with an increase in mileage lets see if there is a change in mpg.3. Those winter tires that are mandated by Ontario are not helping your mileage at all. Those tires will have an increase rolling resistance which will decrease your fuel mileage. Tires can impact fuel consumption by 2-3 mpg easily. 4. Visit and join http://www.gasbuddy.com as there you can keep a longer term log of your fuel consumption. Keep a detailed record and after the next oil change if there is not an increase to more normal numbers, print out all the information, take it to a different dealer, and hand it to the service adviser. This way you have actual documentation of the issue at hand and they have something to go off of. At the same time, post an inquiry in the Ontario Section of GVC asking which dealers are more customer friendly in your area. Make sure to keep all your receipts from getting fuel and make it a habit of entering the information on the website that I supplied. Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »-- Use a ScanGauge to consantly monitor FE and adjust driving accordingly. Buy one, well worth it.This is a great tip Barvibe, yet the unit does cost around $150 USD and that is why I recommended keeping track of you log on http://www.gasbuddy.com as you will have documentation, logs, and records available for the dealer, yourself, or legality reasons. It does not take a lot of time to enter the information and it is cheap as it is free.

[ClunkClunk]

Also for comparison -- What fuel economy is the Canadian 2009 Vibe w/1.8L advertised as getting? (the Pontiac CA site was less than forthcoming with the 1.8L info).For US models, the 2009 1.8L is rated at 26 mpg city, 32 mpg highway.(Not that this should make a difference, as you're seeing far below what I'd also consider acceptable, I'm mostly curious as to what GM Canada has set the expectation to).

[prathman]

Don't know about the Canadian government figures, but the US EPA rates your model at 31 mpg highway and 26 mpg city, so about 30 mpg for your combined use. A 60% decrease from that would be a decrease of 18 mpg so you'd only be getting 12 mpg instead of your stated 23.7 mpg.And the government figures are based on driving in warmer weather while gas mileage is always significantly less in the winter (different gas formulation, denser air, and worse driving habits).How long are your average drives? Short trips will make for worse mileage - especially in the winter when the car won't be properly warmed up for awhile. And I'd suggest not letting the car idle for warmup (5 minutes is about 4 minutes and 55 seconds longer than it needs). Cars warm up best by being driven fairly gently at first but not by letting them idle.

[kunkstyle]

Quote, originally posted by barvibe »Up until this year I have always purchased import cars.You even purchased an import this year. The only things not imported are the body panels, stereo, and customer service Quote, originally posted by barvibe »In most cases averaging over 60% decrease in mileage. Now is this a 60% decrease from new, or 60% less than posted? A few notes on your information posted:1) At 118 km/h you're not going to get close to epa estimates. Try driving 100. You've got a car that's nothing close to aerodynamic with a small engine. At 118 you're pushing a whole lot of resistance for a 1.8L. That just kills the mileage. If you're like me, and don't want to shave off 20km/h from your driving habits, you're going to spend more on gas. 2) What are you getting for actual mileage (in L/100km)? That whole '60% decrease' isn't really a solid figure.3) Are you using synthetic oil? And the proper weight for that matter?4) 5 min is too long to be warming up. 30 seconds is all they need (even in Canadian winters). You're better off keeping it below 3k rpm for 5 minutes while driving than to let it sit. Not only are you getting 0mpg when sitting, any owners manual I've read claims that it's not good for the engine to let it sit idling. If it's a comfort issue, you're best to pick up an interior heater from Canadian Tire for $60. You'll save that much on gas pretty quickly.5) Not too sure about the dealers in Ontario, but I know most of the GM dealers in Calgary will take a look at gas mileage even if there's no CEL if you bring in your last 5 gas reciepts in with odometer readings. 6) Winter mileage is usually horrible. I get about 10L/100km in the winter versus 7 or 8 in the summer. And that's not just the Vibe.7) Where do you fill up with gas? If you're using Husky, Mohawk or Petrocan you're guaranteed to have at least 10% ethanol in it, as well most of those stations use a winter blend which will drop mileage. The blend doesn't produce as much power when burned, hence a reduction in fuel economy. 8) The steel rims on the winters are probably heavier than the OEM rims (if you have alloys). Weight will play a big part in mileage as well.Shell is the best I've used in my vibe. The bronze contains no more than a max of 10% ethanol (usually less), and they don't use winter agents. I find I can get almost an extra 50 km on a tank with Shell gas.Hope that helps. Enjoy the new Vibe.

[AKLGT]

Quote, originally posted by barvibe »Thanks for the prompt reponse!I'll answer all of your questions as best I can.1. I've owned the car for 2 months2. Threre are 4800kms on it (oil change done)3. 90% highway driving avg speed 118kmph4. standard 16" steel rims winter tires5. I don't brake or accelerate quickly6. I only warm the car for 5 minutesI know that some of the answers will be along the lines of break in period, cold weather etc.. I'm aware of that. However I don't think I should be getting 23.66 mpg (US gallon)I avg'd about that in my 03 Vibe GT in winter. Wintertime always less fuel economy. in summer it went up to avg 26-28 mpg depending on how much right foot I put into the car. If I got that kind of fuel economy in the winter time now, i'd be one happy girl! LOLand as others have already said, you only have a few thousand miles on the car and one oil change, driving through the winter.... you can't really judge fuel economy just by those standards.

[DarkSpork]

Quote, originally posted by barvibe »Thanks for the prompt reponse!I'll answer all of your questions as best I can.1. I've owned the car for 2 months2. Threre are 4800kms on it (oil change done)3. 90% highway driving avg speed 118kmph4. standard 16" steel rims winter tires5. I don't brake or accelerate quickly6. I only warm the car for 5 minutesI know that some of the answers will be along the lines of break in period, cold weather etc.. I'm aware of that. However I don't think I should be getting 23.66 mpg (US gallon)1.Do you really expect the car to be broken in after a period of two months? 2.The car isn't fully broken in yet. My father's PT cruiser got horrible gas mileage until had over 10,000 miles on it (took him about 3 months, long commute), now its close to EPA.3. Thats an okay speed.4. Size of your wheels/rims is fine.5. How far in advance do you slow down? Is there any traffic where you live?6. 5 minutes is not a particularly long warm up but the gas mileage on any idling stopped car is 0mpg, if you want to avoid wear on your engine by allowing it to warm up, expect a decrease in fuel economy.With all that being said my car is rated at 25 city/30 highway. During spring, summer and fall I get about 29-31 mpg with 80% highway driving 20% city driving going about 70-75 mph (112-120km/h). On a 500 mile trip with almost no traffic I've achieved 35 mpg (middle of summer going between 70-80 the whole way). Now that I've mentioned my summer mileage I will say that I got about 17mpg off of my last tank (9.5 gallons to 170 miles) and it is based off of a variety of things:1. My warm up process consists of: starting the car, scraping ice off the windows, putting the extension cord away then having a cigarette, then finally driving the car2. Most cars run rich (higher fuel to air ratio) when cold.3. More of my driving is around base so the car doesn't get to go any faster than 30mph a lot of the time.4. The winter blend of gas up here is designed so that it won't freeze in subzero temperatures, not for fuel economy.So my advice would be to take the car on a few hundred mile trip when the weather is warmer traveling around 120km/h or less and compare your fuel economy numbers that you are actually getting to what was advertised on the car, then if it still seems poor you should investigate further.By the way: are you using the 2.4L or 1.8L? Automatic or manual?(Note: while I'm not trying to defend GM, I don't think they are in the wrong on this). And shouldn't Toyota be more to blame than GM? The Pontiac Vibe is made in Fremont, CA at the NUMMI plant. The same plant that makes the Toyota Corolla and Toyota Tacoma. The Pontiac Vibe is made mostly from Toyota parts. So it doesn't sound to me that you have an issue with American engineering so much as Japanese engineering.

[kunkstyle]

Quote, originally posted by DarkSpork »2.The car isn't fully broken in yet. My father's PT cruiser got horrible gas mileage until had over 10,000 miles on it (took him about 3 months, long commute), now its close to EPA.I think that break in period is a farce. I have yet to own a vehicle that changed substantially after purchase.

[DarkSpork]

Quote, originally posted by kunkstyle »I think that break in period is a farce. I have yet to own a vehicle that changed substantially after purchase.As that may be he experienced a 7mpg increase after about 3 oil changes (9,000 miles). The car is still horrible on gas. Most I ever got out of it was 26.5 mpg. He averages 25 on his commute. It could be that his driving habits adjusted to the car (the automatic transmission is horrible on that car, holds gears considerably longer unless you take your foot entirely off the gas when you want it to shift). But that seems kind of irrelevant to the Vibe.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by kunkstyle »I think that break in period is a farce. I have yet to own a vehicle that changed substantially after purchase.That's been my experience as well. I have purchased 7 brand new cars and in each case the mileage on the very first tank was the same as what I got for the same kind of driving for the remainder of the vehicle life (at least 100 kmiles each except for the two Vibes that are only at 20k and 40k so far).

[keithvibe]

it's the winter... plan and simpleduring the summer months I get 23-36mpg with my awdduring the winter months I get 20-26mpg All mixed driving. Wait till the summer and see if your still having the same issue

[barvibe]

WOW... thanks for all of the answers to the post. Let me, if I may respond to some if not most and then see your responses. I will use MPG US gallons as it seems to be easiest. I will also come across as sarcasitc and I don't mean to be... lolOkay.. -car is 1.8 L auto -posted figures in Canada are 37MPG highway 31 MPG city-90% of all driving is highway-I am getting anywhere between 21.5mpg and 24.5mpg US gallon-most days I drive and go with no warm up-60% of 37MPG is 22MPG. This is around the average fuel consumption so I am only getting 60% of posted-I have had 5 or 6 new cars in the past 5 years and all of them had same mileage before and after the magical "break in" period-this is not an AWD-I run with high quality winter tires and do know how to drive. I don't brake too hard or accelerate too quicklyI think I got everything.Now please read this;This rant isn't about this being an American made car. This rant is about the fact that GM refuses to look at the car other than to plug it in and see no codes.I can look past 5-7 mpg from posted. I might even go as far as 10 mpg but anything over that can't be explained by "break in" , cold weather etc... Any other advice? Thanks for the advice I have received. I will take it and apply it as best I can to see if there is any improvement and I will try out http://www.gasbuddy.com .

[engineertwin2]

Sorry you are having such problems barvibe. GM may seem non-responsive because of the way things go. Given that the dealer won't touch it if there are no codes (because they can't charge against warranty), I'm not sure what else you can do. US EPA estimates are in no way a guarantee on actual performance, as numbers will vary with driver. I would agree that it seems to be off, but I would be extremely surprised if they were as frank as you have described without some hostility on your part.If you would like to have them look at the vehicle regardless of codes, you would probably have to agree to pay the diagnostic fees in the event they didn't find anything. Likely, they won't find a thing as most diagnoses these days involve plugging in the computer and reading codes. Try checking tire pressure or at least waiting until it warms up. The vehicle will still be under warranty.

[psiu]

31/37?Sure that is with the auto? Seems high, maybe that's manual trans based (though still ridiculously high). How good are Canadian estimates? --they did just change the way US estimates are done so they would be more realistic.Also, try about 109-110 km/h. I've noticed the mileage on my 03 takes a fat crap once I crack 70 mph (well, it goes down, but hitting 75+ really ruins it).

[vibe-04]

Get the car's engine's codes read by a different dealer, tell them your story and get their sympathy. Something is fubar'ed, a sensor making a too rich mix possibly. Also check for leaks and smell around the engine bay. I had a dealership want to replace my carb on an 84 Chev when it was actually a leaky fuel pump that I saw dripping gas everywhere. From that day forward I did my own work.Also, maybe the CEL light is also broken?The 1.8L engine is usually rock solid and the Vibe is a good car. Dealers are a couple of rungs down from lawyers on the social ladder. Good luck and keep us posted

[ehoff121]

Quote, originally posted by barvibe »3. 90% highway driving avg speed 118kmph118 kph = 73.3 mph.Not sure about a 2009, but on a 2005 this is over 3000 rpm and way over the miles per gallon "sweet spot".You can search the forum for best speed for fuel economy- I think it's right around 40 mph (~65 kph) and gets worse as you go faster.Maybe someone with a scangauge can verify the instant mpg at 40 & 73 mph?

[ClunkClunk]

Quote, originally posted by psiu »31/37?Sure that is with the auto? Seems high, maybe that's manual trans based (though still ridiculously high).It also seems high to me. The US 2009 Vibe 1.8L is rated at 26/32 manual and 25/31 automatic.

[chevelle_lover]

When they base the milage on the Canadian cars they base that up a gallon that is equivalent to 4.54 litres. A U.S. gallon is 3.78 litres. This is why a Canadian window sticker seems so high on the fuel estimates.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by barvibe »Now please read this;This rant isn't about this being an American made car. but in the title you posted:"I'll never buy GM or quite possibly American again!!"what did you want them to do since there is no code present. TOYOTA will do the same thing. no code no problem. take the vehicle to your favorite toyota dealer and have them diagnose it, they will say the same thing GM does. that is the price you pay for technology.

[kunkstyle]

Quote, originally posted by chevelle_lover »When they base the milage on the Canadian cars they base that up a gallon that is equivalent to 4.54 litres. A U.S. gallon is 3.78 litres. This is why a Canadian window sticker seems so high on the fuel estimates.I was just thinking that... That's why I was looking for the mileage in l/100 km

[barvibe]

Obviously as I can type and have no issue forming complete sentences I'm not an idiot. What I'm saying in this post is simple. I have a problem with the vehicle and it isn't being addressed by the company that sold it to me as I believe they should. Why then would I say I will not buy GM or quite possibly American again? SIMPLE, if ever I have had an issue of any type with any of my new import cars I have been treated with respect and have had the car in to get fixed until the problem had been resolved. THis isn't the case here. Kind of like shopping at Sears and being happy your whole life and then trying Walmart once to give them a shot. It doesn't work out because Walmart refuses to address an issue... what do you do? Well you don't ever buy from Walmart or any store like them again.In this instance, the company REFUSED to do a fuel consumption test. The company REFUSED to have a mechanic drive the car. The company REFUSED to advise me as to how I could further continue with my complaint.When I say the company I mean both the dealership refuses and customer service refused to force the dealership.

[barvibe]

Vibe is rated higher in Canada as the testing is still the old testing procedure. This is why I allow up to 8 MPG. With the American way of testing you should be within 5% if posted.

[barvibe]

All figures I have posted are in US MPG. I have converted them so as to make this discussion easier.

[barvibe]

oh.. sorry... didn't address this....If you read my earlier bit this isn't about being an American made car. It is about it being a car SOLD by an American company.

[brbo]

Just FYI - below is how the tests are done by Environment Canada - which as you can see are done on rollers and not real world tests so the accuracy of a number listed by EC has to be taken with a grain of salt.Also you are quoting in your earlier post your baseline for MPG of the vehicle is per the window sticker from Canada which is done by Imperial Gallon not US Gallon. This is a 20% difference from the US figures you are claiming are 60% difference. Additionally you are also using Winter driving conditions as the results to compare which clearly is not similar to the test. You also note that no one from the Company is willing to help yet have not expressed what interaction the Dealer had prior to you calling CCC. I work with them on a daily basis, and if you present your issue and give them your results with proof, which if grossly out of wack it allow them to justify more diagnosis. You have to remember many people have these issues when only using the window sticker as a reference and they have to filter out actual cases versus driving habits (shame CDN standards weren't the same as US as the window sticker would be much more real world numbers). So going in demanding a fix without doing your due diligence will determine the participation you'll receive.PS I've broken in a few 100 co. vehicles and MPG does get better after 10K km - it's not a switch however it's is gradual and your overall tank distance will go up. Good Luck.http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transpo...8.pdf Simulated city courseThe city test simulates a 12-km, stop-and-go trip with an average speedof 32 km/h and a top speed of 91 km/h. The test runs for 23 minutesand includes 18 stops. About four minutes of test time are spent idling,to represent waiting at traffic lights. The test begins from a cold enginestart, which is similar to starting a vehicle after it has been parkedovernight during the summer. When the test is completed, the test cyclestarts again with a hot engine start, and the first eight minutes of the testare repeated. This simulates restarting a vehicle after it has beenwarmed up, driven and then stopped for a short time.Simulated highway courseThe highway test simulates a 16-km trip with an average speed of77 km/h and a top speed of 97 km/h. The test runs for 13 minutesand does not include any stops. However, the speed varies to simulatedifferent kinds of highway and rural roads. The test begins froma hot engine start.

[joatmon]

First of all, and most important, is that if you are getting 9 - 11.5 L/100km, that is 26.3 - 20.5 US mpg, which sucks, and I understand why you are disappointed. The 2009 1.8L auto is rated at 31 US mpg highway, which is 7.6 L/100km.The 60% is wrong, you are using the 37 mpg imperial, and comparing it to 20.5 mpg US. If you use the correct highway rating of 31 mpg US, then you are only getting 66% of the rated mileage, or 34% less. If you use L/100km, then 11.5 is 51% above the rated 7.6, which sounds worse, but it's the same. Either way, I'd be very disappointed only getting those numbers, but calling it 60% is wrong.As several have mentioned, running at those speeds is not in the efficent range for these cars. Wind resistance is the main factor. My worst gas mileage was on really long highway trips, where the speed limit was way up there, at or above the speeds you routinely drive. Most of the time I'm on well policed 55 mph (~90 kph) roads and my efficiency is way up on those slower roads.Allowing the car to warm up for five minutes will result in being able to drive a warm car, but it costs five minutes no kilometer idling, and will bring down the efficiency. Some argue that the long term life of the engine is increased by not loading the engine while cold. I turn mine on and go, but it almost never gets as cold here in Maryland as it can in Ontario, and I have a garage, which means no ice scraping Still that warm up does use fuel to not move the car. It's more of a factor if you warm the car up for five minutes to drive for ten that it would be to warm the car up for five minutes to drive for an hour. Also, running the defroster will cause the AC compressor to be cylced on and off, that saps power some, so try to use the defrost or defrost/floor settings only when you really need them.Around here, they use a different formula gas in the winter, I forget why, maybe a pollution control thing, but it does adversely affect efficiency. Some of the gas stations here use a blend that contains more ethanol that the gasoline sold at other stations, the higher the ethanol content, the lower the efficiency.There are a number of possible causes for poor fuel efficiency. The most common cause for poor fuel efficiency is driver habits, and from what you've said, I only see the driving at avg 118 kph. That may be a totally reasonable speed for the roads and traffic, but it will hurt your efficiency. A number of factors also come into play with it being winter, and if you decide to keep the car, you should see an increase in warmer weather. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6088&#p65128 has an excerpt from the 2003 service manual listing possible causes for fuel efficiency being less than expected, There are many possible causes that would take a lot ot fime to check, and there are several that are not repair items, and it is very difficult to rule them out.I have very limited dealer service experience, and would not expect them to invest days quantifying your car's performance. The last new car I bought was this Vibe, six years ago tomorrow. However, it sounds like this Vibe is your sixth new car in five years, so you have a lot more experience interacting with dealerships than I hope to ever have. While I would not expect the dealership to spend a lot of time trying to diagnose your car that may or may not have a repairable problem, it does seem that the quality of treatment did not meet the standard which you feel you should be treated. Perhaps they should have explained it better. Perhaps the Audi, VW, Honda, Toyota and Nissan dealerships would have given you a loaner car while they spent days performing detailed analysis of your vehicles for free, and if they would, then certainly nobody can fault you for giving them repeat business. For me, it seems unreasonable to expect them to do that, so I wouldn't rule out American cars because of that, but as I said, I have a lot less dealer experience than you.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by barvibe »I know that some of the answers will be along the lines of break in period, cold weather etc.. I'm aware of that. However I don't think I should be getting 23.66 mpg (US gallon)For the first couple thousand miles, you might. The engine parts are still very tight. My 2004 Vibe mileage did not peak until about 8000 miles. I'm already exceeding the sticker on my 2.4L. Also, try changing the oil to a full-synthetic blend. Other than that, we would need to know more about your driving conditions and other factors. Quote, originally posted by barvibe »If you read my earlier bit this isn't about being an American made car. It is about it being a car SOLD by an American company. An American company designed the car. A Japanese company provided the drivetrain, brakes and suspension and steering. The car is assembled in California. It's about 2/3 American - 1/3 Japanese.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by barvibe » Recently with the economic downturn I thought I would give an American brand my money. To little to late? Maybe, but in the end I've been propping them up with my tax dollars anyway ... I got news for you. You've been propping up the Japanese and European car companies with your tax dollars to. On average, every new plant built by Toyota, Mercedes or Honda has received between $300 miillion to $1 billion in tax subsidies. GM, Ford and Chrysler never got any of that for most of the plants they built.

[barvibe]

Thanks for the reply. I wish however that more people would read everything posted.All numbers I have done on this forum are in MPG with US GALLONS. I have converted to them for ease in this forum.Also I have NOT claimed that I SHOULD be getting the posted mileage nor have I claimed that I am driving in anything but winter conditions. I am stating that I am getting mileage that is over 20MPG less than posted. Regardless of weather speed etc.. this should cause anyone concern.I re-iterate I am not stupid. I appreciate everyones input but wish I didn't have to continually correct misconceptions.

[barvibe]

THanks.. 60% isn't wrong. In Canada where I live the car is rated for 37mpg US gal Highway. I am averaging 22 MPG US gal therefore I am only getting 60% of posted value. I may have earlier mis-stated the 60% and if I did so I'm sorry for the confusion.I didn't expect the dealership to do anything out of the oridinary.I asked these questions;1. Are you getting a lot of complaints about fuel consumption? Answer was NO.2. Have you had any issues with ANY 2009 VIBE 1.8L auto in regards to fuel consumption? Answer was NO.3. Is my car the only 2009 VIBE that has been presented with these kinds of fuel consumption. Answer was YES.I asked these questions of the following; dealership I purchased from - dealership closest to where I live -customer service.I ask you, any of you. If you were presented with my consumption and then presented with the answers I have been given would you not think that your car has an issue?The LEAST the dealership should have done was to test the fuel consumption. They didn't.

[barvibe]

I'm not willing to get into what we do or don't do in Canada for the Big Three. I have nothing against the "big three" and wish them success... problem is they are now and have always been their own worst enemies.

[brbo]

Barvibe, if you are not expecting posted numbers please explain why you feel that your vehicle is 60% less then what is expected... makes no sense...We can't compare apples and oranges here - listen to all the folks posting their winter driving MPG, yes you may be a bit lower but we are talking 5-6mpg not what YOU are expecting (sticker numbers),,, let the vehicle break in.. You are using posted EC MPG Standard numbers and comparing them to real world winter conditions (temp/fuel/snow/well over 100kph) - those numbers are optimum conditions timing and temperature done on a dyno...you will never achieve them...Lastly all my dealers around here don't have the time to setup a work order based on three questions - go into the Dealer with your proof and if it is in fact as bad as you claim - open a work order and let them have a look..Good Luck.

[joatmon]

I was going off the US mileage tests. I see on the GM Canada web site they list the 1.8L auto vibe at 6.2L/100km, which is 38 US mpg. That's nuts. I think there is something wrong with the Canada test, to rate a vibe at 6.2 L/00km, and perhaps to reach those numbers, you would need to drive in a similar manner to the Canadian test, which would involve slowing down. I am sorry to have challenged your numbers incorrectly, I guess I figured that rating the car at 38 US mpg HAD to be a mistake. The US reworked their mileage test to be more realistic a couple of years ago, that's why in the US, the same car is rated at 31 mpg hwy, or 7.6 L/100km. If you lived in the US, then your 22 mpg would be 70% of rated value. 70 is 16.7% more than 60, so you could increase your mileage 16.7% by just moving south I have been lucky with mine, and although I do see a drop in mpgs inthe winter, never anything as low as you are seeing. Still, I can see where poor power winter gas, higher speeds, heavy defrost use, low efficiency winter tires, warm up times, new engine, etc could possibly combine to suck the gas away that much.If it were my car, I'd be angry about the difference you are seeing betweeen advertised and actual numbers. I think part of it is the government mandated number is too high, but your actuals do sound lower than they should be.See if you can find a low ethanol content fuel, and try a whole tank at 90 kph instead of 120, see if that can't get you back down to the 8 L/100km range. Check your tire pressure, and keep an eye out for early signs of wear from a bad alignment.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by barvibe »I'm not willing to get into what we do or don't do in Canada for the Big Three...Uhm, okay. I thought you were the one who brought the subject up in the first place. It was your own post I quoted.

[kevera]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon » Still, I can see where poor power winter gas, higher speeds, heavy defrost use, low efficiency winter tires, warm up times, new engine, etc could possibly combine to suck the gas away that much.True!!!I see huge drops in gas mileage here in Ontario with my vibe,so I can see where your drop in mileage sort of stems from.Now the advertised mileage from the dealer is a farce,they rate the Corolla at 41 mpg which has the same setup as the vibe-which is totally untrue.It does sound like you have a problem with an o2 sensor or a cat efficiency problem causing the drop in your fuel mileage.If I were you,I would take a trip out of Barrie and hit up another,more competent dealership and let them diagnose the problem your having.We all know Barrie is full of knowledgeable people

[ned23]

I've generally gotten my best highway gas mileage at about 25-30 °F during dry, high-pressure weather. I recently got over 30 mpg on a trip to Cleveland in the 2.4L in exactly these conditions. I was helped by a stiff tailwind on the way up and the fact that there were almost no trucks on the road - so, no lane changing, which eats gas.

[barvibe]

I guess I should be more literal as you seem to be. What I'm saying is that I'm not willing to turn this forum about fuel consumption and poor customer service into a "what the government does for the big three in Canada"You mis-quote me in that I state, rather than ONLY putting my tax dollars into the companies I would take a leap of faith a purchase a car from them. BIG DIFFERENCE

[vintagegz]

it may be of interest but I also own a 2005 3-series BMW with the 2.5 litre 6 cylinder. The instantaneous mileage display will be around 8 to 9 litres per 100 km in summer, but around 0 celcius it drops to 12 litres per 100 km, and any colder almost 14 litres per 100 kms. For the first few minutes on a really cold day it is well over 20 litres per 100 kms, so a lot depends on the weather and also the high speeds involved in your particular situation.

[PopeyeFAFL]

I had American car before, a Chevrolet Caprice Classic 79 with a 350 V-8 an OK car, but by today's standard, not so great.At the time, that Chevy did suffer peel-off paint, no matter how much I argue with GM for making them repaint the car, I end-up paying a paint job from my own pocket.I promise myself of never buying an American Car again.After that car, I had an 1984 Accord 4 doors, the trunk cover and the wheel fenders started to rust badly. One day, when I was waiting at a red light, someone ask me to pull over. The guy give me his business card (he was a manager of Honda for the east portion of Canada) and ask me to present that to any Honda dealer and get my car fix (brand new part + faulty seal causing the trunk cover to rust), I did.That told me, if I needed a proof, of the difference in customer service between foreign and domestic cars (I understand that this aspect of the business have changes quite a lot, for everybody).After that I had another Accord, a 1991 Coupe.In late 2004, I was shopping for a new car again, and I didn’t really knew what I wanted, maybe a Toyota Celica, perhaps the Volvo C30 (but it was just rumoured at the time, no fix date, etc.), perhaps this, perhaps that.Finally the Matrix caught my eye, after a bit of research, I realize that Vibe = Matrix and since my employer had some link with GM, I could have a discount therefore I choose my Vibe 2004 (base model, 5 speed with Mags & Power Group option).After 4+ years and 106,000 km, I can testify that year round (winter, summer with A/C, suburb/city driving, few trips, etc.) my fuel consumption is: 7.5 L/100 km (min: 6.4 L/100 km, max: 10.1 L/100 km calculated after every fill-up). I will let you convert it in mpg.Now, I’m very happy with that Vibe, might well be the best car, I ever had.Will I buy another American Car, hard to say, right now I will say no, in 5 to 10 years from now (when my Vibe is due), maybe if the actual turmoil is over and if they have descent products to offer (by the way, if the Vibe would not have been a Toyota in disguise, I would never had set foot into an American Car Show Room). GM, Ford & Chrysler have a lot of soul searching to do, they have mismanaged their business for far too long now (they have done some good move, but some terrible one).What my next car will be? I don’t know.

[barvibe]

Thanks to everyone for their input.. it has opened my eyes to a lot.I have come to realize that these forums are great in that I get to compare information. I have also realized that these forums (I belong to http://www.tdiclub.com as well) are typically filled with people who are 99% happy with the vehicle they have and as such don't like when someone has issues with something they love. lol... It makes sense to me.... I took issue with someone cutting up the builder of my home... I am very happy with my home and went ot the mat defending him. Again.. cheers to all

[chevelle_lover]

After reading your first post over I did forget to mention a couple things. My car is a 1.8L with a manual. During the summer on a strict highway trip I averaged about 34 mpg. Since I stopped keeping a log I cannot say how accurate it is. During the summer in the city I am averaging about 450-500 km per tank and on the highway it is around 550-650 per tank. In the winter gas mileage sucks. Since I now have a remote starter it is worse. I get around 370 km per tank at best. On the highway it is around 500 km per tank.

[Lysander]

Sell the car and move on, you can afford it.

[Corn1849]

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »-- Use a ScanGauge to consantly monitor FE and adjust driving accordingly. Buy one, well worth it.Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »This is a great tip Barvibe, yet the unit does cost around $150 USD and that is why I recommended keeping track of you log on http://www.gasbuddy.com as you will have documentation, logs, and records available for the dealer, yourself, or legality reasons. It does not take a lot of time to enter the information and it is cheap as it is free. Another option, if you have an iPhone or iPod Touch is http://www.karlbecker.com/carcare/. One of my favorite apps (there are others out there which are free or a bit cheaper, just search iTunes) Anyone ever see the movie "Pete 'n' Tille" (c.1972)The father and son put gas into their neighbor's new VW bug at night.The guy thinks he's getting like ....90 mpg.......then, they start to syphon gas out.

[Tailslide]

I get 34mpg summer, 26 mpg winter. Also, try slowing down. 118kph what do you expect? If you drive 90kph in the summer with good tires, you will get close to posted fuel efficiency.

[thebarber]

anything else ever happen w/ your economy?you do mainly highway and only get 24mpg, that blows. even for an auto.what rpm are you at at 110kph? just wondering if maybe you dont have the O/D turned on? tire properly inflated?economy always dips in the winter, but im surprised to hear it that low...