"Flip-Shift" thinks it's smarter than me and is very annoying.

[ned23]

I was really pleased when I saw that the flip-shift option was offered on the car. That was before I realized that it only gives you very limited control over the gears. The computer still makes a lot of decisions for you about what gear to choose that defeat the purpose of having the flip-shift in the first place. For example, I was taking an exit ramp from one expressway to another. I downshifted into 4th so I could accelerate more quickly with the belief that it would keep the car from kicking down into 3rd. However, when I gave the car more gas (at 45-50mph, no less) the computer still decided that I wanted 3rd gear. There's no reason on earth that I can see why I shouldn't be able to hit the gas in 4th gear at 50 mph and keep it in 4th. This is VERY Annoying, to say the least. I'm trying to conserve a little bit of fuel and keep the noise down a bit. I'm not an idiot and I know what RPM's the engine can take at what speed. The computer should know this too. So, what's up with this? I wish there was some way to adjust the shift-points on the flip shift.

[Kamikaze]

That sucks.Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having the "flip-shift"?(removed) GM?

[Silversn95]

Quote, originally posted by Kamikaze »That sucks.Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having the "flip-shift"?(removed) GM? Don't hate on GM, Toyota did the powertrain. I agree though, what would be the point if the computer takes over so readily. I can see the computer taking over if it will cause damage but not for typical driving situations. Just another reason to stick with a manual

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by Kamikaze »That sucks.Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having the "flip-shift"? Yes, it baslically does. The problem is they designed the computer algorithm with the idea that stupid drivers would use the flip-shift. You press the gas so the computer "thinks" that you were too stupid to realize you needed to downshift, so it does it for you. Stupid drivers aren't going to use the flip-shift. They'll leave it in "D"Quote, originally posted by Silversn95 » Just another reason to stick with a manual Yep, that's basically right. Except manuals now have like zero trade-in value. You don't get any money back out of them.

[shemp]

agreed. in most cars the flip-shift is gimmicky, in the Vibe it's useless. It has a does whatever it wants, which led me to also question why it's even on the car.generally speaking i vastly prefer manual trans, but a)the wife refuses to learn to drive one (for the once or twice a year she takes it), and b) i thought the manual vibe i test-drove was not fun. the trans was mushy, and the drive-by-wire throttle made it tough to drive smoothly... i might have gotten used to the DBW but in the end, not having the wife chirping in my ear convinced me to break down and get the auto.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by shemp »agreed. in most cars the flip-shift is gimmicky, in the Vibe it's useless. It has a does whatever it wants, which led me to also question why it's even on the car.... Ah, so then that is "normal?" It seems so bizzre I was actually wondering if it was out-of-whack. I actually contacted Pontiac to ask them if it was operating normally. I haven't heard back from them yet. I'll post if I get a reply. The thing is that it downshifts just fine for the most part. If you're coming up to traffic or going down a hill or off of a ramp, then you can downshift the car and slow it down just like a manual. If you want to accelerate and pass you can do that by downshifting. The problem is that you can't keep it from downshifting when you don't want it too, which is the best way to conserve fuel.

[northvibe]

Yeah all the gm cars I drove did this to some extent. The only true way to really drive is with a standard gear box

[kowell]

It's probably better this way. The first production year of the Mazda5 in north america, idiots that did not know how to use a flip-switch properly would overheat a lot of components and complications would lead to the rear bumper catching fire. http://www.autoblog.com/2005/0...fires/

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by kowell »It's probably better this way. The first production year of the Mazda5 in north america, idiots that did not know how to use a flip-switch properly would overheat a lot of components and complications would lead to the rear bumper catching fire. http://www.autoblog.com/2005/0...fires/Well, that's a problem but don't you think they over-corrected for the problem and went to the other extreme? Computers are very versatile nowadays. It's not that hard to program a short, 2 min "delay" in the "force you to downshift" subroutine. There's still plenty of time to prevent overheating. Actually, the Mazda problem was the reverse. People were neglecting to upshift and operating the car on the highway in second gear. I'm good with upshifting!

[northvibe]

its america, full of lazy idiots that do things they shouldnt and sue...so we get crappy cars. the stupid people once again ruin it for the rest of us car enthusiasts :/

[ColonelPanic]

Does it at least let you start in 2nd gear? I think skipping first is helpful in snow and ice, my Malibu had that capability. I sure miss that sometimes...That's funny about the Mazda. Wouldn't that thing be bouncing off the rev limiter like crazy? That would kind of be a good indication to me that an upshift may be necessary. But that simple concept is lost on many it seems. I'm surprised they didn't have anything in place to force an upshift, I thought most of these automanual thingies did that.

[northvibe]

I had a loaner mazda 6 with the triptronic shifting it was AWESOME. It will not change gears when you pick them..ohhh the sweetness. It also wasnt to bad on the lag either, my moms malibu is just horrid using it, shifts for you and is slow to shift.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »Does it at least let you start in 2nd gear? I think skipping first is helpful in snow and ice, my Malibu had that capability. I sure miss that sometimes...The computer traction control accomplishes what starting in second gear used to do. And it does it better by sending power to non-slipping wheels. Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »That's funny about the Mazda. Wouldn't that thing be bouncing off the rev limiter like crazy? That would kind of be a good indication to me that an upshift may be necessary. But that simple concept is lost on many it seems. I'm surprised they didn't have anything in place to force an upshift, I thought most of these automanual thingies did that.I'm guessing they weren't actually running over the redline but close enough to it to overheat the engine,.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »I had a loaner mazda 6 with the triptronic shifting it was AWESOME. It will not change gears when you pick them..ohhh the sweetness. It also wasnt to bad on the lag either, my moms malibu is just horrid using it, shifts for you and is slow to shift.I wish I could do that. I think part of the problem with the "lurching" accelerator is the transmission shifting too much. I was also hoping to mellow out the touchy accelerator issues by picking a gear, but no luck.

[shemp]

Quote, originally posted by ned23 »The computer traction control accomplishes what starting in second gear used to do. And it does it better by sending power to non-slipping wheels. Not to be pedantic, but I don't think that's entirely accurate. I believe TC on the vibe works via a combination of individual wheel braking and closing the throttle.... on the FWD Vibes at least. If one wheel is slipping it may apply brakes to that wheel, if both wheels are slipping it will close the throttle and possibly apply brakes. I don't think the differnential has the ability to divert power to a non-slipping wheel. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by shemp »Not to be pedantic, but I don't think that's entirely accurate. I believe TC on the vibe works via a combination of individual wheel braking and closing the throttle.... on the FWD Vibes at least. If one wheel is slipping it may apply brakes to that wheel, if both wheels are slipping it will close the throttle and possibly apply brakes. I don't think the differnential has the ability to divert power to a non-slipping wheel. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.I don't see what distinction you're trying to make. If you have two wheels driven by a regular differential, then applying a brake to one of the wheels results in more power going to the other (non-braked) wheel.

[shemp]

I was just trying to differntiate between wheel-braking/throttle reduction with a regular differential vs. an actively controlled torque distribution sytem like Subaru uses in their center diff.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by 13Vibe03 »Does it? Think about this in reverse. When one tire starts spinning with an open differential, the tire with traction gets no power. All the power is lost in the spinning wheel.So by braking the spinning wheel, how does this help send power to the other wheel? I don't see how that works other than to slow the spinning wheel.Have you ever played around with a differential gear? It's a strictly mechanical gear with no possible slippage, so all the rotation from the output shaft of the transmission is transmitted to the two wheels but the differential allows it to be divided unequally between them. Let's say you jack up the car so both wheels are free to turn and you leave the engine idling and in gear so the wheels are each turning at 100 rpm (about 7 mph). Now grab the left wheel and stop it. The wheel on the right will immediately speed up to 200 rpm (14 mph) since the engine is still turning at the same speed and all the rotation is now going into just the right wheel instead of divided equally between the two. *For a given engine/trans. speed*, anything done to slow down the turning of one of the wheels must result in speeding up the other wheel.

[ned23]

Well, we had icy roads yesterday, and I must say the traction control rocked!It was almost as effective on a typical road as my old 4x4 tracker was. I don't think it would be as good in deep snow or on a steep slope as the 4x4 but I was able to pull out from stops easily on a "mostly cleared" but icy road.

[ned23]

Here's a follow-up:As I mentioned I've got family who works in R&D the auto industry and the possibility was raised over the holiday gathering that this transmission might still programmed for a mid-sized Camry with 5 passengers in it.

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by ned23 »Here's a follow-up:As I mentioned I've got family who works in R&D the auto industry and the possibility was raised over the holiday gathering that this transmission might still programmed for a mid-sized Camry with 5 passengers in it. Doesn't the new Vibe fit 5 passengers also?

[Neouka]

All the more reason to buy a stick. It never shifts until you tell it to. And if you can't drive, it'll let you know But seriously, it's not that difficult.We're denied a LOT of vehicular awesomeness due to the lack of a manual transmisson in a lot of cars.

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by Neouka »All the more reason to buy a stick. It never shifts until you tell it to. And if you can't drive, it'll let you know But seriously, it's not that difficult.We're denied a LOT of vehicular awesomeness due to the lack of a manual transmisson in a lot of cars.Some are unable to drive manual transmissions due to medical conditions.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »Doesn't the new Vibe fit 5 passengers also? Yes, it does. Not quite as "comfortably" as a Camry, but it will.

[shemp]

Quote, originally posted by Neouka »We're denied a LOT of vehicular awesomeness due to the lack of a manual transmisson in a lot of cars.Truer words have never been spoken.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by shemp »Truer words have never been spoken. For the most part, that's true. You can actually get more torque from an automatic because the torque converter multiplies the torque hydraulically. That could translate in to better performance on steep hills or when towing something.The main reason I no longer buy manuals is NOT because i don't like to drive them, I like them. It's because the car has much lower resale / trade value. I like to trade them in every 3-5 years.

[Neouka]

case and point, you can't get the G8 in stick. (removed)?

[vibolista]

Lower value manual trans is a pretty lame excuse for not having one. The manual usually starts out at a lower price anyway and then makes you even more money by saving fuel in the long run. Auto trans are getting a lot better, but they are mostly just as boring. They have good applications, on plow trucks, those who need to tow big stuff, Hybrids and for those drivers that don't have the interest, time or ability to use a manual. Incredible car, no manual available, zero interest for me. Other than my very first car, (no console manual shifter available at that time) every car I have owned has been a manual since 1974. Neouka has it right. We have been denied a lot of vehicular awesomeness.By the way, what is "Flip-Shift"? Are we talking about paddle shifters?

[shemp]

Quote, originally posted by ned23 »...You can actually get more torque from an automatic because the torque converter multiplies the torque hydraulicallyI don't think this translates into real world performance.A manual trans can be driven proactively, whereas an auto can only be driven reactively. If you want to go fast thru a corner the most important aspect is exit speed. With a manual trans, as soon as you hit the turn-in, you heel-and-toe the brake and gas so you can downshift.... once you hit the apex you are in the right gear to exit the corner, roll off the brakes & roll on the throttle and you are a vapor trail. With an automagic when you hit the apex and roll on the throttle your car gets the input that you need an downshift, then clumsily executes the downshift while you're manual-driving brethren are halfway down the stretch. It's easy to see why manual tranny's are preferred in almost all types of racecars.I am also frustrated that most americans prefer automatics, while the rest of the world enjoys stirring their own gears. Because of it, we are deprived of it's availability on many cars that would benefit from it so much. Resale values can also be lower for manual cars. Some of the manuals that are available here are not very good either.... probably because in the states they are seen as a lower-cost alternative as opposed to a performance upgrade.

[shemp]

Quote, originally posted by vibolista »By the way, what is "Flip-Shift"? Are we talking about paddle shifters? The "Flip-shift" is the silly mode on the automatic transmissions that allows the driver (at the car's descresion) to sequentially shift thru the gears. It doesn't work very well, and still runs thru a slush-box, so it's pretty far removed from a proper manual transmission the way God intended it to be. ... your left foot is still bored too.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by shemp »I don't think this translates into real world performance. Okay, let's say that "theoretically" you can get more torque out of an automatic. I do think that you'll get better long-distance towing performance in a car with an automatic (of course if you're towing something heavy, then a tranny cooler is a good option to have)Quote » It's easy to see why manual tranny's are preferred in almost all types of racecars. No argument there. Manuals are still better for racing because you need response times in like half second increments. Quote » Resale values can also be lower for manual cars. Some of the manuals that are available here are not very good either.Resale value definitey IS lower for most manuals, there are a few exceptions but that's still the rule. For me the resale difference translates approximately into getting a new car about year sooner with an automatic, all other things equal.

[shemp]

Quote, originally posted by ned23 »Okay, let's say that "theoretically" you can get more torque out of an automatic. I do think that you'll get better long-distance towing performance in a car with an automatic (of course if you're towing something heavy, then a tranny cooler is a good option to have)I'm curious then why Semi's almost exclusively have manual transmissions. Please enlighten me.