Which car?

[DarkSpork]

I'm looking into buying another car next year, I have narrowed it down to two cars. They are as follows:1. 2006-2008 VW GT2. 2005 Subaru Legacy GTAnybody have any thoughts or advice?

[keithvibe]

why don't you tell us why you picked those to begin with.

[DarkSpork]

Well, I'm looking for something with more low end torque which is also heavier. I want something a little more refined while still being a little sporty. A manual transmission is a must which cuts out a lot of car choices and the Legacy GT and MKV GTI strike my fancy.

[Mavrik]

I'm going to have to go with the legacy GT. I don't have any experience with the VW but I work at a subaru dealership. They are a very reliable car. The one the wife owned was a great car as well but she sold it for a real STi as she had modified her LGT with some STi parts. She could fill you in more on the legacy.

[DarkSpork]

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik »I'm going to have to go with the legacy GT. I don't have any experience with the VW but I work at a subaru dealership. They are a very reliable car. The one the wife owned was a great car as well but she sold it for a real STi as she had modified her LGT with some STi parts. She could fill you in more on the legacy.Sounds interesting. My only real concern with the Subarus is from what somebody who's family only owns Subarus told me "the clutch and transmission wears out quicker than an average 2wd car". Any truth in this?

[ToolGuy]

My sister had a 98 Subi Forester and its trans went at 50,000 miles. She traded it in...Sure, it can happen to any car but you asked about trans and she is the only person I know that had a Subi.

[northvibe]

Mazdaspeed 6?After all the VW issues with reliability imo I wouldnt touch one. Havent really heard of issues with the GTI or the r32 but I dont have any friends with one....Yes I to have heard of the subie legacy tranny wearing out. They even make a manual one? thought they were all auto's.

[ou.grizzly]

Transmission problems are a common on Subaru's. Not everyone has an issue, but there seems to be a pattern. VW? Eh, if you bought a brand new one, had a warranty, and you only kept it till about 80,000 miles then I say go for it. If not, avoid.

[Mavrik]

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »Transmission problems are a common on Subaru's. Not everyone has an issue, but there seems to be a pattern. VW? Eh, if you bought a brand new one, had a warranty, and you only kept it till about 80,000 miles then I say go for it. If not, avoid. quoted for the incorrect info . only subaru with transmission issues are the WRX 5spd. People actually upgrade that transmission with 5spd legacy gears because they are quite strong. I've been working with subaru for over 3 years. We rebuilt 1 legacy transmission and it blew cause the guy was doing something stupid in a parking lot. Same with the clutch, no issues there.If subaru is known for anything, its headgaskets on 98-04 models Haven't seen it yet on the 05 or newer.

[Sublimewind]

I had my Impreza RS for 140Kmi and did a clutch at 85kmi and changed the fluids... that was it... never a probelm, and it wasn't even the clutch that went, it was the throw-out bearing.. they have some head gasket problems though... My moms 03-04 needs HG's right now.. and my 99' RS needed them when I sold it (full disclosure sale to BTW)

[DarkSpork]

I was not aware of the gasket issues in some of the Subarus. My understanding with VWs is that most of the problems are electrical and not necessarily drivetrain or suspension issues. One thing I would guess is worth considering is the Legacy is built in the USA with Japanese parts and the GTI is built in Germany with German parts (unlike the Mexican built Jettas which are famous for being unreliable). However my understanding remains Japanese > German for reliability. Any other thoughts? Thanks Mavrik for being knowledgeable about Subarus.I guess one one of the big things that knocks points off for GTI (for me at least) is that the closest Subaru dealership is 100 miles whereas the closest VW dealership is 280 miles. Although I don't know how much of a factor this is/should be to me since I would rather go to a local private shop (and there is a local one that specializes in VW, Audi, Volvo and Saab).

[lovemyraffe]

I've had both VW's and Subies with great results from both. Both are great cars until something goes wrong, then it gets really expensive. Both are a pain in the (removed) to work on.

[shemp]

I don't know too much about either the Soob or the MkV GTI, but my friend has a Legacy GT w/manual, and I had a MkIV GTI. Based on the above experience, I would recommend the Legacy. It's a really fun car to drive, and pretty refined. The only knock I have is the interior styling. I'm generally not a fan of Subaru's quirky styling, but IMHO the Legacy is a very nice looking car. The issues above notwithstanding, Subaru has a proven reputation for longevity.I absolutely loved driving my GTI VR6 w/ 5-speed manual. The exterior was understated, and the interior was way nicer than anything in it's price range. The car was fairly quick, and nimble, and great on long trips... plenty of gadgets, etc. That being said, my ownership experience was plagued with problems. The issues with the car were things that shouldn't go wrong with a relatively new car, and entirely too frequent. I bought the car new, and sold it with approx 40K miles on it. In that time I had the AC go out twice (out of warranty) a wheel bearing (first time for me on any car, not covered) the driver window fell down into the door (covered) the mass airflow sensor failed (not covered), and an electrical problem that fried the CPU (car in shop for 6 weeks, out of warranty), and a brake caliper failed (not covered). My car was an early-built car from Brazil (?) right when they were moving GTI production from Germany to South America... I don't know if that had anything to do with my car's issues.Although driving the car was a pleasure, dealing with it's issues were frusterating to say the least. I've heard the MkV GTI is much funner car and I really like them, but I personally would have a hard time buying one given my last experience.

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik »quoted for the incorrect info . only subaru with transmission issues are the WRX 5spd. People actually upgrade that transmission with 5spd legacy gears because they are quite strong. I've been working with subaru for over 3 years. We rebuilt 1 legacy transmission and it blew cause the guy was doing something stupid in a parking lot. Same with the clutch, no issues there.If subaru is known for anything, its headgaskets on 98-04 models Haven't seen it yet on the 05 or newer.How about the bad batch of Engines on the new Subaru XT's or the issue with condensation in the taillights on them also? More than a few people I am aware of have had issues with their Legacy/Forester transmissions (manual) to be exact, and yes these are newer models.We are considering purchasing a New Subaru Forester or CR-V yet and it is a coil toss at this point.

[AKLGT]

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »How about the bad batch of Engines on the new Subaru XT's or the issue with condensation in the taillights on them also? More than a few people I am aware of have had issues with their Legacy/Forester transmissions (manual) to be exact, and yes these are newer models.We are considering purchasing a New Subaru Forester or CR-V yet and it is a coil toss at this point. as a vendor on the largest Subaru forum in the world (125,000+ active members) and a moderator on the LGT forums (30,000+ active members) I can assure you the number of transmission issues on any of the Subies is pretty small in comparison. i've not seen too many condensation in taillights or headlights or otherwise unless someone opened up their lights. Sure it can happen, but out of 10,000 cars, maybe one might have that issue. Most issues of transmission or engine problems stem from abuse on the turbo models, not the NA models by any means. NA models rarely have any issues what so ever with the exception of the head gasket problem from prev model years. 3rd turbo subie, beaten, thrashed, trashed and rallied without issue.

[AKLGT]

Quote, originally posted by DarkSpork »I'm looking into buying another car next year, I have narrowed it down to two cars. They are as follows:1. 2006-2008 VW GT2. 2005 Subaru Legacy GTAnybody have any thoughts or advice?If you are interested in looking up more info, I will steer you to:http://legacygt.com/forums/?Check out the pre-purchase forums. Also, check out the member classifieds as there are many folks selling 05 LGT's. They are hard to come by as they tend to be the better year of that model/make imo. I had great success with mine and that is after MUCH beating and abuse it went through. The new owner is still quite happy. If you see something or have a more specific question, please PM me or let me know and I can dig up some info for you. Also, Mavrik knows the ins and outs of what kind of issues the cars tend to have since he works the Subaru service side. I had mine for 3 years, longer than any car I've ever owned and wish that I didn't have to sell it. I miss my car, it was awesome. LGT = decent fuel economy, 18-22 city, 24-28 hwy (for me), awesome safety and crash ratings (one of the safest vehicles to drive), decent handling and sportier feel (do suggest upgrading the sway bars at the very least) and plenty of power out of the box. Also, mine was 5EAT (auto) vs the 5MT. 5MT can handle a lot more power and accomplish the same with a lot less modification. They are also much harder to find. You should also consider the 5MT wagon.... if done right, they are super nice!BTW, Mazdaspeed 6 sucks (you cannot compare it to the MS3 which is a much superior vehicle though FWD). on paper, it looks impressive, but when you drive it, lame. I was extremely disappointed. 2006 SCCA Arctic Alaska Region Solo II Rookie of the Year (05 LGT), 3rd Place Ladies PAX, 1st Place Street Mod Ladies2007 SCCA Arctic Alaska Region Solo II (05 LGT) 1st Place Street Mod Ladies2006 Drag Racing Season: 13.63 @ 98.5 mph (stage 2 = gutted uppipe, downpipe with 93 oct tune)2007 Drag Racing Season: 12.86 @ 105 mph (STI swap with 100 oct tune)Here's a few pics of mine in all her glory:And not the best time, but still a 12.93 run

[ou.grizzly]

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »as a vendor on the largest Subaru forum in the world (125,000+ active members) and a moderator on the LGT forums (30,000+ active members) I can assure you the number of transmission issues on any of the Subies is pretty small in comparison. i've not seen too many condensation in taillights or headlights or otherwise unless someone opened up their lights. Sure it can happen, but out of 10,000 cars, maybe one might have that issue. Most issues of transmission or engine problems stem from abuse on the turbo models, not the NA models by any means. NA models rarely have any issues what so ever with the exception of the head gasket problem from prev model years. 3rd turbo subie, beaten, thrashed, trashed and rallied without issue.Very well aware of you being a vendor, moderator, and belong to various forums such as http://forums.nasioc.com/forums as we venture those forums also. We have been in contact with "Peaty" for a few years now and also Ben at Hodges Subaru more than a few times. My previous post was talking about the new Forester, not the Legacy. The track record for the newer Legacy is better than the new Forester so far. How was your Legacy GT when you purchased it used, as in how condition was it in?

[AKLGT]

my LGT had 199 miles on it when purchased April 19, 2005. It had 54K miles on it when I sold it Aug 28, 2008 to the new owner. It was a GREAT car! I really miss it and wish I hadn't had to sell it (but 3 car payments was just too much). It also was a 5EAT so not near as solid transmission wise as it's 5MT sister. I still loved it and it was a blast! I've still not heard of the new FXT's having issues. we know several and have several in our local subie clubs. are you talking the 09 (new new ones) or the 05-08? They all use the same 2.5L engine (turbo subies) since 06 now including, WRX, STI, LGT, BAJA TURBO, FXT, OBXT, etc. as far as trans go, only the WRX 5MT seem to have the real weak link. the LGT 5MT is rock solid and can handle about 400whp. the 4EAT is also pretty solid, but the 5EAT, MAYBE 300whp if you don't beat on it much, otherwise the Valve Body upgrade is necessary at the very least if not a fully built race trans if you want to go crazy power (which is what I had planned if I'd kept the car). A stage 2 LGT 5MT with uppipe, downpipe and full turbo back exhaust can run 12.9-13.4 on avg (obviously 12.9 is very very good and not the norm). I know of one member on both forums who has run his stg 2 LGT to 12's with those minimal mods, and their new FXT with STI swap to 12's. That's very impressive! There was ONE guy on the lgt forums with me that managed to run one 12 sec run on a stg 2 set up on his 5EAT but only after jacking up his boost to about 22 or 24 psi (do NOT recommend!) for that ONE run. Sure he did it, but any more runs like that and his car would have gone pop! I was running 21-22 psi on my set up, but that's with 100 oct race gas on a little larger turbo and TMIC! I will say, when you buy a Subie, it's not just a car, you buy the whole Subie club that tends to come with it. But as we all know here, once you start modding, it's like a disease! it's really hard to stop! and for aftermarket support, there is A LOT for the turbo subes. The new thing is the new VF52 turbo swap from the 09 WRX. it can handle just as much power as the STI and more, but with the LGT fitment, so it's a very cheap and inexpensive upgrade. you can run stock fuel, injectors etc (but do recommend upgrading the TMIC for more power). *edit* for the 05 LGT, there were 2 things: ECU issue (FAN always running) but is a recall for a new ECU (5MT only) and the wheel bearings. Those are also under extended warranty up to 80K miles. I had both my rear bearings replaced and the front driver's side replaced under warranty.If I think of anything more, I'll let you know. Both those issued were already addressed and under dealer recall/fix/extended warranty.

[Mavrik]

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »How about the bad batch of Engines on the new Subaru XT's or the issue with condensation in the taillights on them also? More than a few people I am aware of have had issues with their Legacy/Forester transmissions (manual) to be exact, and yes these are newer models.We are considering purchasing a New Subaru Forester or CR-V yet and it is a coil toss at this point. I guess those problems are on the lower 48 subarus and not the ones in alaska cause I've yet to see any issues on the models your mentioning. Not saying there isn't any. But being the largest and only 1 of 3 subaru dealerships in the state, to say I see a lot of subarus is an understatement.

[AKLGT]

oh ya, the Outback XT has the same cargo area as the FXT, just not quite as high ground clearance, FYI. I really like the new FXT and wouldn't mind one. however, still not quite condusive for my autox addiction, though it would be better for rallyx and do just fine at drag racing.

[DarkSpork]

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »*edit* for the 05 LGT, there were 2 things: ECU issue (FAN always running) but is a recall for a new ECU (5MT only) and the wheel bearings. Those are also under extended warranty up to 80K miles. I had both my rear bearings replaced and the front driver's side replaced under warranty.I probably should have mentioned that whichever car I purchase I would need it to last another 8 years and it would probably need to survive up to 180k miles as I would be keeping it through the rest of my enlistment and college. I don't really plan to do any modifications (although the Legacy may get a short throw shifter because from what I've read the stock one is sloppy) and I've never really been much into racing, I just like to put my foot into it once in a while (WOT shifting well below redline). I really like both cars. I guess what it will come down to is price and availability:1. Subaru = (1 on car soup) 2005 Legacy GT 5MT 45k miles 16,000 dollars in the Twin Cities area.2. VW GTI = (6 on car soup) 2006 VW GTI 6MT 20-45k miles 15-16,000 dollars in the twin cities area.I have posted in VW forums with the same question. Two or three people recommended the Subaru due to the winters we get up here and the rest simply said "both are good cars, buy what you want".

[AKLGT]

provided you get good maintenance records, make sure you take a really good look at the car. Both Mav and I can give you some "what to look out for" tips so you don't buy a lemon or an abused one.I do know you can find a lot more on the East Coast for much much less (like $13K-15K) and may be worthwhile to have trucked to you. I've seen a few with less than 30K miles go for $13K-14K over there. I can tell you I sold mine in August with 52K miles for $18,500 up here. But I had the Limited which has leather, sunroof and heated seats, windshield and mirrors. you will also find more reliability with the LGT than you will with the VW, provided you maintain it and don't abuse the car. Plenty of Subes up here with well over 150K miles running strong.

[DarkSpork]

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »provided you get good maintenance records, make sure you take a really good look at the car. Both Mav and I can give you some "what to look out for" tips so you don't buy a lemon or an abused one.I do know you can find a lot more on the East Coast for much much less (like $13K-15K) and may be worthwhile to have trucked to you. I've seen a few with less than 30K miles go for $13K-14K over there. I can tell you I sold mine in August with 52K miles for $18,500 up here. But I had the Limited which has leather, sunroof and heated seats, windshield and mirrors. you will also find more reliability with the LGT than you will with the VW, provided you maintain it and don't abuse the car. Plenty of Subes up here with well over 150K miles running strong.The LGT I mentioned is a limited. Kind of an aqua blue with tan leather. What would I look for on the LGT to determine abuse? From what I've seen on the Legacy forum you referred me to and the vwvortex forums the MKV GTI actually looks less problematic. I think for reliability it will come down to how well it was taken care of before I bought it and how well I take care of it. Every car has its, flaws and some are ever designed with flaws (ridiculously premature clutch wear on Vibe GT/Matrix XRS, previous gen Jettas being electronic nightmares, etc). I'm begining to think that the AWD is the only reason Subaru is on my list.

[AKLGT]

well, just like here, you can't believe all the crying that goes on. people are quick to complain, but never give you the whole story, especially when it comes to turbo cars and warranties. I have found the 05 LGT to be quite reliable, many people have long lasting reliable LGTs with high miles. the ones having issues are almost always beat on, not maintained or abused and when the car goes boom, they start crying. If you don't abuse the car, maintain it well if you do (like what Mav and I do), the car will be reliable. As for keeping an eye out, look for any non factory bolts and no turbo heat shield. no heat shield almost always tells you the car was modded. When I sold my LGT, I gave full disclosure. I let the new owner know exactly what was done to the car, when and what kind of maintenance it went through. Because he was a friend of one of the local subie guys, he had been following my car for a long time and really liked it. Because it was well maintained, put together only by SOA trained techs, everything constantly poured over, the car ran great and still does. It now has over 60K miles, not too bad for a car that went thru 2 full seasons of autox, drag racing and even drove 5,000 miles down and back the AlCan HWY last year.If you find a car that has been unmolested or with good service and maintenance, it will last you a VERY LONG time. Abuse it and it won't. Pretty simple.and the color you're looking at is the same color mine was: Atlantic Blue Pearl with the tan interior. mine was black.

[AKLGT]

member on the forums selling his 05 non Limited GT:good price and well maintainedhttp://legacygt.com/forums/sho...96295