Why aren't fog lamps standard on 09's?

[ned23]

I'm really bummed because I missed the fact that my new '09 Vibe didn't have fog lamps. I've had to order parts and have the dealer install them at a premium. In the meantime, I'm constantly reminded of my mistake every time it's dark and rainy (which is a lot this time of year) and I reach for the fog lamps and they're not there. If the car is supposed to appeal to the SUV / crossover market, doesn't it make sense to make a few minor accomodations to that effect?

[kowell]

The list of cars under 20K that come standard with fog lights is pretty short.

[Silversn95]

Why should they be standard? They are an available option if you want to pony up to them (need to get the 1SC package unfortunately). The head lights in the '09 are plenty bright enough. Better than just about any car I've had before it.I agree with Kowell, there aren't too many sub $20,000 cars out there with them in the first place.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by kowell »The list of cars under 20K that come standard with fog lights is pretty short.So charge me $20,115. I want my car the way I want it. Don't make me pay $600 to add them on afterwards. Yes, that's the price theyr'e asking...$600. That is if you don't call Pontaic and make them re-negotiate and be a pain in the ***. I don't like having to be a pain in the *** but asses are the only ones who get listend to.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by Silversn95 »Why should they be standard? They are an available option if you want to pony up to them (need to get the 1SC package unfortunately). The head lights in the '09 are plenty bright enough. Better than just about any car I've had before it.I agree with Kowell, there aren't too many sub $20,000 cars out there with them in the first place.Because they don't cost all that much and they're a great safety feature. It's a lot easier for other cars to see you coming in low-visibility weather if you have extra lights. Also, when they leave them out, they replace them with big, ugly, flat-black plastic plugs in the middle of your nice shiny red metallic bumper. The plugs remid me of those black strips they used to put on the bumpers of dodge horizons and vw rabbits to save 15 cents on chrome. IOW, without the lights it cheapens the front end looks.Know what the really silly thing is? Even when they leave the lights off of the car, half of the stuff is still there. The wiring harness is still there as is the fuse hook-up and the connections for the turn-signal switch. All sitting there, costing money and doing absolutely nothing!

[shemp]

The OEM's make BANK on options. Many times it's cheaper to build the cars all the same than it is to delete an option from certain cars, but they can make more. I don't know the actual cost of foglights, but if they can make $10 foglight system a $115 option (or better yet, roll it into a package with other options for more $) at 60% take-rate, it adds up. If they include it on all the cars they are basically giving them away as very few buyers would buy a vibe just because it has foglights....and those plastic foglight-delete covers that make the car look cheap? ....sort of makes you want to spring for the optional lights, doesn't it?

[shemp]

Keeping the all important "Base Price" low is also a priority. Decontenting the car allows them to keep the base price as low as possible. That's not all bad either as it gives the consumer the option of cost vs. content.

[03vibedriver]

Yes I concur my 09 has no Fog lights And my 03 Vibe had them I really miss my Fog lights.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by shemp »Keeping the all important "Base Price" low is also a priority. Decontenting the car allows them to keep the base price as low as possible. That's not all bad either as it gives the consumer the option of cost vs. content.And I think that used to work well, in theory but not so much anymore. If you buy a car today and you pretty much have to take what's on the dealer lot. As I discovered, trying to add an option after you've bought the car can cost up to 6 times as much as it's listed for on the sticker. $600 for fog lights is 3% of the full price of the car! Quote, originally posted by 03vibedriver »Yes I concur my 09 has no Fog lights And my 03 Vibe had them I really miss my Fog lights.Yeah, once you get in the habit of using them you really miss them when they're not there. I discovered it 6 hours after I picked up the car. I was driving to a business meeting 2 hours away and it as raining and dark and starting to fog and I was on a 2-lane state highway with hills and curves. I reached for the lights and they weren't there. So, I pulled the car over and looked around the Dash and then opened the glove box and started reading the manual. It took me like 5 min to realize they weren't there and I even got out of the car in the rain to double check the front end. Man was I bummed. Quote, originally posted by shemp »...and those plastic foglight-delete covers that make the car look cheap? ....sort of makes you want to spring for the optional lights, doesn't it? Yes, but I'm an enthusiast. Not many people are going to fork over 4, 5, or 6x the cost of an option to install it after the fact. Instead, they'll be pissed about it the whole time they own the car and they'll remember that when they go to buy their next one.

[Caretaker]

Sorry, but I think fog lamps are totally useless. I have them in my 03 and rarely used them. Moreover, one is busted out from road debris and I have no intention of replacing it (kind of matches the crappy paint job). As for the 09, I think they have some of the best headlamps I've ever seen, both low and high beam. I think the car looks better with the ribbed black covers than does having round glass there, which I already know from my 03 will not help me see deer in the fog any better than the powerful lamps that came with the car. I think fog lamps are purely cosmetic.

[shemp]

Quote, originally posted by ned23 »And I think that used to work well, in theory but not so much anymore. If you buy a car today and you pretty much have to take what's on the dealer lot. hmmm, I don't see it that way. I shop around until I get the car I want. Dealers also trade with eachother all the time. When I bought my Vibe my dealer found me the exact car with the options and color I wanted, traded for it and I picked it up the next day.My point about "Base Price" being that is the all important number that is flashed around in ads and so forth, you know: "Pontiac Vibe starting at $___________". Quote, originally posted by ned23 »As I discovered, trying to add an option after you've bought the car can cost up to 6 times as much as it's listed for on the sticker. $600 for fog lights is 3% of the full price of the car! Just be glad you didn't change your mind about which transmission you wanted... now that would be expensive! ... I'm sure you understand that that the reason the cost is so high compared to the original option is because you're paying stealership mechanic rates to install a part that would have cost very little to install when the car was being assembled. The foglight guy sat on his (removed) holding a wrench with nothing to do when your car rolled past him... you should have had him do it. Quote, originally posted by ned23 » Not many people are going to fork over 4, 5, or 6x the cost of an option to install it after the fact. Instead, they'll be pissed about it the whole time they own the car and they'll remember that when they go to buy their next one. right... you'll remember to get the foglights option next time.... exactly my point.

[shemp]

BTW, i think foglights are pretty useless also, but I tend to get them because they're usually a cheap option, and I hate those foglamp-delete caps.

[lowincash]

i think fog lights are somewhat useless too...they don't shine that far but it does put out more light to the left and right and also fills in the light in front of the car where the low beam misses. i also agree with maxx4me...the vibe low beams are pretty good...both my previous cars had stock xenon and i was worried about the weak low beams...to my surprise they were pretty good and had a nice cutoff. just put a set of HIR bulbs in there to get more light out of them =D but i do think fog lights are nice to have...more lights are better than none haha not sure about the base vibe's fog but the ones on the GT gives a sort of halo look...and when i touched the fog lights it's actually curved like a projector lense. oh yah fog lights make the car look good too =P

[musicmanmu]

I like having fog lights...they don't add a whole lot to the party if you ask me...I'd just as soon turn on my high beams if I needed the extra light.Please don't take this the wrong way (directed at the OP)...but if I was purchasing a brand new car (which I just did in Sept.), I would make darn sure that the thing had everything I wanted and needed. $20,000 is a huge investment, at least for me. I researched cars for 4 months before buying the Vibe, so I knew the thing better than the salesman!

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by shemp »BTW, i think foglights are pretty useless also, but I tend to get them because they're usually a cheap option, and I hate those foglamp-delete caps.You're missing part of the picture: * Fog lamps also make it easier for other cars to see you coming. * You can fog lamps on 2-lane hwys to provide extra light without blinding on-comming traffic with your highbeams. * They make it easier to see right in front of the car when you're going slowly, like in heavy snow or on a dirt road in the dark (I go camping...)* They look better than the caps that replace them.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by shemp » right... you'll remember to get the foglights option next time.... exactly my point. Yes, I will. but to be fair: would YOU have expected a $115 option to run $600+ after the fact? There's no aftermarket "kit" for the lights. You have to pull the steering column apart to install the OEM lights. It's 4 hours of labor.

[shemp]

I'm not going to talk you out of liking foglights... I just personally think they are of little value. Quote, originally posted by ned23 »...to be fair: would YOU have expected a $115 option to run $600+ after the fact? Yes, absolutely. They made the option so cheap from the factory that I would expect anyone who values them so much would opt for them when new. I would guess only a handful of people who didn't get the factory option would install an OEM kit.Air conditioning was $1000 option from the factory, but I bet it costs far more to have it installed at the dealer, if they even would do it.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by shemp »I'm not going to talk you out of liking foglights... I just personally think they are of little value. Yes, absolutely. They made the option so cheap from the factory that I would expect anyone who values them so much would opt for them when new. I would guess only a handful of people who didn't get the factory option would install an OEM kit.I guessed that that it would cost more but not that much. I figured $200-$300. That seems resonable to me. It's hard to get exactly what you want these days. You have to take what's on the lot or wait 12-15 weeks and lose any of the price markdowns. When all is said and done, I'll probably still end up ahead of the game by paying $600 rather than custom-ordering a car. And I'll get it 3 months sooner.

[prathman]

Wish they had been an option on the '06s. We could have saved a little on our two cars and not had the risk of having the lights shattered by a rock.I don't really see much value in them. They only light up the area very close to the car which is already lit up enough by the regular lights. The extra brightness close up from the fogs just reduces my night vision for seeing things in the distance.They can be a little better in really dense fog, but under those conditions it's best to find someplace to pull over and wait for it to lift. Ours haven't been turned on in either car for the last couple years except to check that they still worked.

[lowincash]

i actually use my fog lights every night...it's true tho, it does make other cars see you better and i somewhat feel safer with them on so i can be more visible...my car's black and at night it's dark lol i noticed with the fog lights on, people from your left and right can see you better...with fog lights off the car looks darker =/ i guess it has its function and purpose and i would definitely want fog lights on all my cars...i like the look haha