'03 Vibe wont Start :-(

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:49 am

So, last night their was really heavy rain in Tucson, AZ.. And being as dense as I am, I decided to drive home threw the rain. Long story short.. The car kept dying on me, and then it stopped starting. The engine never just died, it more sounded like it was dying for a few seconds and then shut off.. I tried starting it this morning by jumping it with my friends cobra but that didn't work. The engine won't even spin, you just turn the key and all the lights dim and that's it... The starter motor just clicks one cause it's trying to engage. We think it's the starter, because apparently if that gets submerged then it can stop working. Anyone have any ideas? I'm pushing it over to my house later tonight and then gonna put it on jack stands...Any idea on how much a starter would cost? BTW, somehow, the vibe couldn't make it but everything else could.. Civic hatchback, Mustang Cobra, even a Harley...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:54 am

if your 03 has the original battery, it could be that the battery is just shot. If you have the original battery, you probably need a new one now, or soon, so if it was my car, I'd try a new battery first before assunmng it was the starter, because a battery is easier and cheaper to replace than the starter, and you'll need one soon anyway.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:46 pm

You can get the battery tested for free at any auto parts store (i.e. Autozone). If you can get it there they can test the alt, or you can remove it and take it in to get tested.

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:40 pm

well, considering we couldn't jump it even with my friend flooring it in his car, yet the high beams and everything else works.. I don't think its the battery... I'll remove both the starter and the alternater and get them both tested... And the battery is only a year old.. it gave out last year, so if I need a new one that would suck...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:26 pm

I said "if your 03 has the original battery" but since it doesn't, it's probably something else, did you check for corrosion on the battery terminals? I've tried to jump start cars and had to leave them connected for 5-10 minutes if the one car's battery was really low. I wouldn't expect the starter to cause the engine to stall.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:05 pm

A few things here...Did any dash light come one like the battery or check engine through all of this before it actually died?I suspect your alternator and battery because the alternator is having issues or very last, your CAI sucking up water. I feel it is not the starter since it kept stalling out while driving. A starter once it starts the car is independent of the car running. The stalling signs sound like the alternator failed thus you were running off the battery only and lucky you made it to your destination. The car would have completely died eventually after the battery gave up the ghost since the car was running on it only. Your starter is clicking because the battery is not supplying enough volts to it to turn it over. If you did not have starter issues before this, I highly doubt the rain caused a starter issue now. I feel the alternator got too wet, failed and did not charge the battery up enough. Now the starter is clicking because the battery will not hold or take a charge now even with a jump.

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:29 am

Well, do you think I should get the alt checked out?

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:31 am

Oh yeah.. and the Battery light is on...

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:55 am

Yes for sure if the battery light is on! That is the first sign the alternator has crapped out and the car is running only on the battery power alone. Remove the alternator and have it tested. For your battery it also may be toast so have it tested as well. If found good, have it charged 100% BEFORE sticking it back into the car. Do not think the alternator will recharge your battery 100% by itself in this case. Since the car really leaned hard on the battery, you need to make sure it is 100% before it will be reliable again for you. I think you are on the right path now! Plus the alternator is easier to remove then the starter. You may get lucky and find the wires to the alternator got wet or corroded apart which you can check that easily just under the hood and before you remove it. I am baffled as to why like you said other cars and a bike made it through so I would look under the car and inside your wheel wheels and make sure all the black plastic shielding is still in place. If not then, water must have really gotten sprayed into the engine compartment.

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:07 am

Well... for one, are you suppose to be able to see directly down threw the engine bay or is there suppose to be some sort of shielding.. Also, when I instaled my CAI I managed to rip out a chunk of the shielding on the drivers side.. which is really bad considering that's right where the CAI is!!I'm going to see about fixing that...I don't want to order a new part.. I think fixing the alt and possibly battery alone is going to drain my bank account.. Now that I think about it.. I was going faster then any other car on the road and displacing a whole ton of water.. maybe some splashed into my hood...

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:10 am

Quote, originally posted by B4snake Â»well, considering we couldn't jump it even with my friend flooring it in his car, yet the high beams and everything else works.. I don't think its the battery... I'll remove both the starter and the alternator and get them both tested... And the battery is only a year old.. it gave out last year, so if I need a new one that would suck... Just because your friend is revving his car doesn't mean it WILL start your car.... Most alts at MAX put out about 90 amps... your starter can pull over 200.... This is why you have to let many cars run for a while when jumping them... you have to energize the battery long enough for the reactions to take place.. THEN it can start the car with a "rush" of current, and then slowly charge over time.. But with a battery light on, it's likely that the alt is going like TOOLguy said.IF you can get the car started and keep it started, you can test the alt yourself, but it sounds like you can't.. It's likely that IF the alt went, it's deep cycled your battery to and IT may be toast as well... Did you happen to check the connections on the battery? I know mine were REALLY bad, and I had to replace one of the terminals, but it never lost connection.. But you may have a poor connection issue..

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:15 am

There is a shield in front of the car and under the engine. A whimpy black one but there is one there. If not there then water could get on the drive belt and travel up to your alternator and then of course eventually kill it. Yeah if your alt and battery are dead it will probably set you back a couple hundies. That is if you do the work yourself too. More if a garage does it. Maybe the battery can be saved so in that case that would be good but you'll need to have it tested first. Goodluck!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:19 am

Hate to even mention it, but lets hope the problem is electrical, and not that the cylinder is full of water and the starter doesn't have enough power to compress it.

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:47 am

Well I'd rather that then a bent/broken valve.. I'd just take the header off and clean it all out with compressed air... My friend and I are going to do all the work.. I don't really need the car to work for a few weeks.. so maybe we'll check out some junk yards for parts... I'll take a look under my car but I think I'm missing the shield.. if so, I guess its one more thing to work on.. Also, the water managed to rip off 4 of the 5 blades on my hubcap.. So, that's one more thing that needs to be fixed...And while we're at it.. the roof was leaking from where the wiring goes for my lights... so I'll have to re-seal that...Wooo.. My bank account is going to hurt...

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:26 am

Also, do you think I should change my oil? One of my friends recommended that, but I think that its un-needed because I just got my 60k mile service and got the oil changed...

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:21 pm

Change the oil? Not sure I follow this. Is the thinking because there could be water in the engine? If so, changing your oil is the last thing to be worried about if water got into the engine. If you Hydro-locked the engine, an oil change is useless before engine repairs.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:43 pm

I'd say start with the free diagnostics.Get the alternator testedPut a big tool on the bolt that holds the main drive pulley on the crank and turn the engine over a little, to make sure it will move.If you are worried about water in the engine, pull the spark plugs and look for water.Check the battery terminals, clean them if corroded.Hook the battery up to a battery charger for a long time, or jjump start it, but leave it hooked up to the other car for a while , ten, twenty minutes, before trying to start it.stuff like that.

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:03 am

Engine is hydrolocked.. We tried clearing out the cylinders with compressed air, but I'm too afraid to start it seeing as it could shatter a valve or a rod or something.. And this is when we take it to a shop...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:29 am

the site's profanity filter prevents me from posting my reaction, and likely yours as well.Good luck, please let us know if there's any significant damage, and what the damage to the wallet turns out to be.Any chance your car insurance will cover the repair?

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:32 am

Quote, originally posted by B4snake Â»Engine is hydrolocked.. We tried clearing out the cylinders with compressed air, but I'm too afraid to start it seeing as it could shatter a valve or a rod or something.. And this is when we take it to a shop...Dood, pull the plugs and turn the motor over.. the water WILL go away... lol.. Just make sure nobody is standing in front of the car... and you might want to pull the fuel pump fuse.. I hydrolocked a 4.3l GMC Jimmy, with FUEL once, darn temp sensors, dumping fuel into the cylinders... Pulled all the plugs and the fuel pump fuse AND the wire off the ignition coil and turned it over... Yeah, cleaned gas off the celing, but it got it out, QUICKLY.. lol

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:46 am

yeah, but i'm worried about breaking a rod... and my friend didn't realize that all the water would shoot out and yes, we did get him quite soaked..

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:58 am

SeattleJeremy · Post by **SeattleJeremy** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:17 am

Hope your car is back up and running soon. Just a thought, you might want to take that hubcap off, it's likely making your tire feel a little out of balance.

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:45 am

A Replacment hubcap is on its way...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:47 am

If you take away the rollback, it looks like you have off road lights on the Vibe

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B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:42 pm

I do have off-road lights on the vibe...

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:28 pm

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:59 pm

I need to pay more attention

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:18 am

well, the shop called me this morning.. Looks like they were able to turn the engine over.. but it sounded terrible.. so they are going to flush it all out.. again.On a side note, everything else has to be flushed as well... AKA, tranny, dif case, fuel tank.. Oh yeah.. anyone know how much a 1zz-FE Engine goes for ?

engineertwin2 · Post by **engineertwin2** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:36 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»If you take away the rollback, it looks like you have off road lights on the Vibe.I think he does, based on the picture from his signature....Dood, just another fricken owner thinking they own an amphibious bass boat...j/k. Sorry for the harsh luck. I'm surprised that the CAI designs don't include vacuum breakers for when you do plug the filter with water. That would be a great way to avoid such an issue (now the 2nd time a CAI owner with a Vibe has provided his engine with a nice refreshing sip of water).How deep was the water? I'm sure it helped with all of the drainage that Tucson puts into the streets (just kidding, since they don't).

engineertwin2 · Post by **engineertwin2** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:46 am

You should expect to pay around $1100 + shipping for a low to mid mileage 1ZZ-FE. Pam's Auto used to have some, but I'm struggling with their search engine right now.

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:17 am

Soooo.. my engine is toast. Now what?

engineertwin2 · Post by **engineertwin2** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:21 am

Ask the shop to specifically identify what components you need. You can talk to your insurance agent if you think it will cost too much. Often times, this can be treated as an insurance claim. I don't know if you have any other claims that you would be concerned about, but it may be the best option.If you feel you can afford it, take the list you get and start calling around. A google search will give you some options. I'd look for something with low mileage first (used) and then something closer to your current mileage.If you have gobs of cash ready, it may be time to hit up a built out monkey wrench racing engine, or somewhere in there.

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:16 am

So.. I got the estimates from the shop...Rebuild the Car with a Used Engine $4500Rebuild the Car with a new Engine $8000Buy an '09 Vibe $20,000That includes everything... even tax...

engineertwin2 · Post by **engineertwin2** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:12 am

Quote, originally posted by B4snake Â»So.. I got the estimates from the shop...Rebuild the Car with a Used Engine $4500Rebuild the Car with a new Engine $8000Buy an '09 Vibe $20,000That includes everything... even tax... So that means buying a new Vibe is still the most expensive option. If you and your friends are mechanically savvy, then you can probably find a used engine and install it yourself. Just download the repair manual - it'll show you the steps.You'd take a pretty big loss to just get an '09 because the current state of your car will mean virtually no trade-in value.If $4,500 is too expensive, did you give the insurance thing any thought?

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:09 pm

Quote, originally posted by B4snake Â»Soooo.. my engine is toast. Now what?What did they say was farked?? OH, BTW, AEM makes little "valves" for CAI's that goes up high that prevents them from gulping water.. it comes with most of their CAI's.. Now what... hmmmm.... LT1 SWAP...!!!! Yeah boooooyyyyyy

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:22 am

Quote, originally posted by B4snake Â»Rebuild the Car with a Used Engine $4500 This does not sond like an engine rebuild. More like an engine swap with a salvage yard engine... Have the shop tell you what needs to be fixed with your current, it should be much less than $4500.

trb · Post by **trb** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:17 am

$4,500 is ridiculous IMO! A http://www.car-part.com - is running $1,200. Shouldn't cost much more than that to R&R the engine I would think, maybe a day or so of labor?Good luck on it!

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:52 am

Well yeah... 16 hours of labor to be exact.. and at like.. $80 in labor... also there is a bunch of other stuff... like the tranny has water in it and same with the fuel tank?

SeattleJeremy · Post by **SeattleJeremy** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:49 am

How did the Tranny and fuel tank get water in them?!?!?!?! First, the transmission is totally separate from the engine. There is no way for water to get from the intake to the transmission case. Besides all the fluid in the transmission will be drained during the swap, so there should be no extra charge here. Second, There is no way for water to get from the intake track to the fuel tank. There's a fuel return line, but that's to release pressure on fuel rail. There is no way for the water to go up the injectors, to make this a problem.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:15 am

Quote, originally posted by B4snake Â»Well yeah... 16 hours of labor to be exact.. and at like.. $80 in labor... also there is a bunch of other stuff... like the tranny has water in it and same with the fuel tank?(removed) dude! Your car was submerged! If you fix this car I say you should still check that alternator. I feel it too is gone, so you may have to add that to the list as well. If that many key parts got water in them, cut your losses and get a new one.

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:55 pm

I think you are getting hosed... (or totaly submerged)Please, make a list of the things they "plan" on doing and post it please..

B4snake · Post by **B4snake** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:38 am

Well, the good news is the insurance is paying for the whole thing! I only get charged with $100.. so as long as the car works like new when I get it back.. I'm good!!My baby's got a new heart!

'03 Vibe wont Start :-(

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