2004 FWD Automatic Trans - Slow Shifting from 1st to 2nd Gear

[Mojo72]

I usually don't mash the throttle when moving away from a traffic light, but when I have tried to accelerate faster, I've noticed a tendency for the engine to rev a little more than I would expect as the trans shifts from 1st to 2nd gear. The car has 74,300+ miles and I'm wondering if I should look further into a potential problem.

[Sublimewind]

If you DO mash the pedal, it holds the gear as long as it can for acceleration.. I've seen mine hold almost to redline... That is a good thing, if you decide to pull out in front of a big rig or something.. You might consider having the tranny fluid changed out, just don't have it flushed, a lot of people have had problems after a flush...

[Mojo72]

The guy I bought the car from back in January said that the trans had been flushed once. What could a flush potentially harm? Would you recommend replacing the trans fluid with AMSOIL synthetic trans fluid? What do you know about Lucas Transmission Fix? Thanks!

[kunkstyle]

Additives generally won't do much for you. They're a temp fix at best that may cause problems elsewhere.

[Sublimewind]

I don't think you have anything wrong, unless it's NOT shifting.... Have you checked the fluid level?

[kunkstyle]

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »I don't think you have anything wrong,+1. Shifting later at WOT on an automatic is business as usual.

[DiveNut]

I agree with kunkstyle & sublimewind...If it acts like this, I think you are OK. (Old, fuzzy cell phone vid, but you can hear 1-2 shift.) Not great for 1/4 mile runs, but makes for smooth shifts. http://s46.photobucket.com/alb...g.flv

[Mojo72]

The fluid level is at or near FULL on the dipstick. The color is still "pinkish", but the fluid has a slight burnt smell to it. Like posted earlier, the previous owner had the trans flushed, but I'm not certain when that happened. The car has 74,400+ miles and I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and replace the fluid.

[DiveNut]

Quote, originally posted by Mojo72 »The fluid level is at or near FULL on the dipstick. The color is still "pinkish", but the fluid has a slight burnt smell to it. Like posted earlier, the previous owner had the trans flushed, but I'm not certain when that happened. The car has 74,400+ miles and I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and replace the fluid.It certainly won't hurt. At least you'll know it's done and your fluid is fresh.

[northvibe]

When I mashed the gas I would almost hit redline before it shifted. that is totally normal. The tranny oil sounds normal as well, should be pinkish and smell burnt, but I drain/fill the tranny fluid every 15k miles (only 4 quarts as the torq converter holds most of it) and that keeps it smooth.

[Mojo72]

Sounds good. What brand of trans fluid do you recommend? Have you used the AMSOIL synthetic or know anyone who's used it?

[THE VIBERATOR]

I had the same problem with my 2003 FWD auto. The first to second gear shift overrevs so you can get the maximum acceleration out of the gear. The vibe's first gear is very torquey. The reason why the shift is like that, i have no clue, but it happened with mine. And if you keep the throttle to the floor for the second to third gear shift, it is a clean shift. For some reason, the first shift is very sloppy and its not clean. What i did to compensate for that is to get some high end spark plugs. I bought Bosch Iridiums so the problem is solved for the most part. I'm also running synthetic oil and i have a tightened throttle cable. I think this issue is more of a throttle response thing more than anything. Have you tried to sport shift? I found that using the sport mode to shift smoothes out every gear shift.

[THE VIBERATOR]

also, using that tranny fluid wont hurt either. But it's totally normal for the car to go a bit farther in the first gear.

[Mojo72]

Thanks for the very good description of the "torquey" 1st gear behavior. That pretty much sums up my 2004 in 1st gear. Get me up to speed on the sport shifting thing. Is that where you start out in the #2 position then move into D at around 2.5K rpm?

[northvibe]

the stock fluid that the vibe came with was the toyota stuff (t-IV) i think, that is either synthetic or hybrid synthetic. I just purchased a case of that from toyota and used it. You can shift with the shifter but it may be hard on it as the computer isnt doing to shifting per say, I had a tranny cooler to help that but, to each their own. If you want new spark plugs the stock ones are iridium, stay with them, ngk something or others.

[Mojo72]

Many thanks to everyone who contributed on my 1st to 2nd gear shift and transmission questions. Does anyone have a link to schematics or pointers on dropping the pan and changing the auto trans fluid?

[THE VIBERATOR]

Northvibe.....the stock plugs in the 2004 FWD automatic vibe are iridium? Dang thats gotta be some change from mine because mine were probably worth like 5 bucks and were not iridium. The reason why i switched is because the stock plugs were dual pronged, and the bosch iridiums are quad pronged, so they can find the best firing sequence. And as for sport mode. When you're at a dead stop (red light or just practice), push the button on the shifter and move it to the "L" which stands for Low Gear, in other words, your first gear. Since the computer wont be used in the shifts, the sloppiness disappears, and you'll notice better response, especially from a roll because the computer isnt used. Also, i found that you are able to redline the car at 6700 instead of the normal 6300. I'm not encouraging this, because if you're gonna redline it, you need experience to time the shifting. When you wanna shift, its simple. Shift from the L to 2 (1st to 2nd) and at the same time let your foot completely off the gas. Wait a little bit then give it gas again. You've just shifted. Do the same from 2 to D (2nd to 3rd) and your 3rd to 4th is with that little tiny button on the shifter. Push it in, and a yellow light comes on, saying O/D off. That means you will remain in 3rd gear until you push the button again, and you will shift into 4th gear. Now i know that was alot of reading, but there you go, thats the basics of sport shifting for you.

[blue_can]

Quote, originally posted by Mojo72 »Many thanks to everyone who contributed on my 1st to 2nd gear shift and transmission questions. Does anyone have a link to schematics or pointers on dropping the pan and changing the auto trans fluid?Yes, I rarely use it but I find that the transmission control upshifts too early if you want a really fast start. Try shifting manually in these situations.As for the original question – the way to figure out if you are having a problem or not is to see if the rpms goes up without any increase in power (flaring). If that happens then the clutches and bands are either slipping or the hydraulic holding force from the VB is not there. However, if there is no loss of power then operation is normal. Remember that the TCM is responds to the TPS – a gear will hold for longer if you keep the gas pedal depressed.What schematics are you looking for. Unfortunately Toyota does not publish hydraulic schematics for the A246E. I do have a VB schematic for the A240 which is very similar although there is no EPC on that – the boost pressure is controlled by the TV (cable operated). Or are you looking for the electrical schematics between the TCM, various sensors and the solenoid actuation and the corresponding gears. That info is available.

[Mojo72]

At this point I'm just looking for a schematic/job aid in changing the trans fluid. I've been scouting around the forums and understand that I should only expect to replace approximately 4.0 qts of fluid because of the torque converter and to clean the screen without actually replacing it. That said, I'm thinking about just having the trans flushed, but have read about bad experiences with that option in the other forums. That said, I'm going to check out the iridium plugs (Bosch or NGK) for the engine and see what that does for the car. Re/ the trans type, I'm thinking I have an A240 because of the cable TV (throttle valve?).

[blue_can]

I doubt you have the A240 – they were used in older cars. The cable you are seeing is probably the shift cable. That only controls the shift position sensor and the manual valve.You don’t need any schematics to change the transmission fluid. If that info is not on this site somewhere I can post a scan from the factory manual.As for a flush – well lots of misconceptions about it. Typically a flush is done by disconnecting the oil cooler lines and then running the engine – all fluid coming out of the torque converter is exchanged with the new fluid. You can easily do this at home – the machine you find at shops just makes the procedure easier.But a normal pan drop and fluid change will not get the fluid out of the TC. Is it necessary to do a flush? – well the factory manual does not say you have to but you will definitely have new fluid in the entire system if you do.

[northvibe]

Quote, originally posted by THE VIBERATOR »Northvibe.....the stock plugs in the 2004 FWD automatic vibe are iridium? Dang thats gotta be some change from mine because mine were probably worth like 5 bucks and were not iridium. The reason why i switched is because the stock plugs were dual pronged, and the bosch iridiums are quad pronged, so they can find the best firing sequence. Did you buy your vibe used? The stock plugs should be single pronged. Theres much debate over the multiprong stuff working and being worthless. with my engineering background, imo, have come to conclude the stock iridium single prongs are the best. multiprong seems to just be a marketing ploy. Even my plugs in the ms3 are single or dual (havent checked) iridium.I have a tranny oil changing thread some where....its just like changing oil though..... theres a big 14mm bold on the tranny oil pan that drains and you fill from the dip stick (think thats what i did, its been like 2 yrs). then double check fill level as you never want to over fill or under fill that tranny.

[THE VIBERATOR]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »Did you buy your vibe used? The stock plugs should be single pronged. Theres much debate over the multiprong stuff working and being worthless. with my engineering background, imo, have come to conclude the stock iridium single prongs are the best. multiprong seems to just be a marketing ploy. Even my plugs in the ms3 are single or dual (havent checked) iridium.If it is a marketing ploy, then i don't see how i gained 2 whp and better response out of nowhere. It is definitely better than single prong. The reason why is because with single prong (especially stock), the only prong that is used is that prong, and it therefore will wear out quicker. With the iridium quad prongs, theres 4 prongs to choose from and the best prong is picked for the firing sequence. I dont mean to insult you, but your engineering experience seems to contradict what i have felt with the quads in there from the originals. Also, I did not buy my car used. It was bought new and until i changed the plugs out (my mistake, they were indeed iridium, but they were as cheap as they come), the originals had not been changed. From what i've felt, the car has better response and is a bit faster with the quad prongs.

[Mojo72]

For grins, I went ahead and replaced the OEM NGK iridiums with a set of Bosch Platinum +4 plugs. I bought my '04 Vibe in January, but I'm fairly certain the NGK plugs were the originals. They have just over 74,000 miles of use and I kept them if anyone wants pictures for a "pathology report". I've already noticed a big difference in acceleration and the "torquey" shift from 1st to 2nd is much less noticable. I'm going to track my mileage during the rest of the summer to see how much of a difference they make on my gas mileage and report what I find.

[THE VIBERATOR]

I rest my case