Hydro-Vibe

[4azdmunky]

Well I decided to take things into my own hands and take a step in the right direction towards a global solution. I built and installed a hydrogen cell in my vibe. So far my gas mileage has gone from 21 mpg (after installing the supercharger) to 33 mpg with a heavy foot. HP doesn't feel any better ((removed) dyno) however I need to get to MAC Autosports and get it dynoed and the e-manage tuned to use hydro.Total cost = ~ $250If you dont want to build one, you can get a complete cell from here: http://www.hydrocolorado.com/Or you can get a less efficient cell (the one that I built off of) from here:http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster2.htmlLessons learned:Only a little bit of electrolite is required (about a tsp). Lye or baking soda can be used as an electrolite.Using too much electrolite causes the amp usage to go up, thus boiling off the water. Boiling water is not cracked hydrogen/oxygen bonds, its just hot water.If you have to refill it frequently, your boiling water not cracking bonds.Use distilled or filtered water. Tap water causes all the nasties to fall out of the water and makes the cell sludgey.Dont power directly from the battery or from the cars wiring system, it causes the charging system to collapse. Power off of a capacitor. I'm using a 3farad cap, paid around $60 for one from cmttraiding.comGet a sterio amp gauge, try to keep the draw to 10 amps or less. Using a vaccum (like from PCV to intake or directly from the intake) to pull the hydrogen gas off the top of the cell, causes the amps to drop, which helps keep water temp down.Get a PWM to get the most out of the electrolisys process.

[4azdmunky]

Here is a picture of the hydrocell installed.

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[4azdmunky]

Hydrocell off

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[4azdmunky]

Cell on and running. Note how the water is not clear but looks like milk.

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[Kamikaze]

I don't know much about this, but I find it interesting...Nice pics too!

[4azdmunky]

Thanks!Hoping to get more people interested in this. Its not a end all be all solution to burning fossil fuels since this augments existing fuel, but its a step in the right direction. The technology has been around since the 1930's, and is just now getting a serious look from the general public. Wish i could take credit for this idea, but my inspiration came from David Reede at hydrocolorado.com.

[prathman]

I agree that the pictures are nice. But I'm already getting over 33 mpg without adding any gadgets to the engine so I think I'll pass.The basic setup is using electrical energy to electrolyze water into its constituents: hydrogen and oxygen. These are then burned in the engine to turn back into water and release some energy.So:water (2H2O) + energy => 2H2 + O2followed by:2H2 + O2 => 2H2O + energyThe basic rules of thermodynamics state that the energy in the second step can never exceed the energy required in the first step. So it's hard to see where you get any gains.TANSTAAFL

[4azdmunky]

You are correct, you cant create energy, however I'm not trying to create energy, I'm trying to augment and lower my use of fossil fuel, which is done by burning hydrogen. By doing so, the car is telling the fuel pump to not pump so much gas, thus the better MPG. If your getting 33 mpg, then you could, in theory get over 40 mpg, and with the cost per barrel of oil closing over $100 today, it helps everyone.It is not a solution, its a step in the right direction.As for the use of water, nature already provided a great, safe, stable way of transporting hydrogen, in water. So until someone comes along with commercial working hydrogen solution, that costs less than $200, this will have to suffice.

[4azdmunky]

Although, you did touch on a good point and one of my upcomming tests. I'm going to try Hydrogen Peroxide (H202)instead of water, to see what the extra O provides.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by 4azdmunky »You are correct, you cant create energy, however I'm not trying to create energy,...Sure you are. It takes energy to move your car and you're trying to make it move just as fast and far using less gasoline than it would normally take. That requires that the energy you'd otherwise be getting from the extra gasoline consumption must be replaced by energy from something else. Hydrogen is certainly a good source of energy, but to extract it from water unfortunately requires at least as much energy as you can ever get back later. You can't get a net gain of energy by taking a water molecule, splitting it apart, and then putting it back together again.PS Be careful when dealing with hydrogen peroxide in any significant concentration. Medicinal solutions are only 3% H2O2 and 97% water and are easy to work with. But concentrated H2O2 can be very nasty.

[kunkstyle]

Out of curiosity, what are your savings cash wise? How often are you refilling the unit? (as distilled water is more per litre than gas)

[4azdmunky]

Once a month (i guess) now that I have the electrolite balanced out, i'm no longer boiling out the water, so I'm not loosing any noticable level of water. There are others out there that are running cells, but have to refill their cells every week. Those people are not breaking the bonds, they are boiling water.So far after about 600 miles I have not added any water.What has it saved me? It was costing me about $36 every 200 miles. I refill my tank at the 1/4 mark, and I would hit that 1/4 mark at around 200 miles or around 21 MPG (these are rough numbers, the log book is in the car). So over 600 miles I would have refilled my car 3 times already (~$108). I am ready to refill my second tank, at the 1/4 mark tomorrow (~$72), saving me so far ~$36.-or-$1.70 per mile @ 21 MPG down to $1.09 per mile @ 33 MPG a .61 cents savings per mile.This is only taking dollars per mile into consideration. Doesn't look like much, but over time it adds up and changes with the cost at the pump, and who knows, if enough people do this, small steps make big leaps.

[4azdmunky]

That is something I am concerned about. I'm not a hippie, but I also don't want to cause more damage by trying to do better. Take the Prius for example, there is a report circulating that shows that owning a Prius is worse then owning a Hummer over a longer time . The basic point that i took away from the report was that the batteries were worse for the environment because of the manufacturing of the batteries and the short life span of those batteries. Now I have no idea how realistic that report was, or how factually based it was, but it did provide an interesting perspective. So while i think Hydrogen Peroxide might provide more "power" (i'm using that loosly), if the biproduct is not good for the environment, then I'm not really helping. I'm not clear what the biproduct would be yet, I'm not a chemist, I'm a QA Engineer. What I do think I'm going to get is that extra OO that should burn in addition to the HH. Cleaner burn? Cooler internal temps? More power? not sure, the engine is an air pump, so.....So if anyone is a chemist, or wants to chime in, please do so.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by 4azdmunky »$1.70 per mile @ 21 MPG down to $1.09 per mile @ 33 MPG a .61 cents savings per mile.I think you slipped the decimal place over.At $3/gallon gas the cost per mile at 21 mpg is 14 cents and at 33 mpg is 9 cents. So the savings, provided this mileage change is really due to the gadget, would be about 5 cents per mile.As to the peroxide, wikipedia has a decent article on its properties. It's pretty safe in the usual 3% medicinal concentration. But when you get above concentrations of 10% it becomes more hazardous and can give off explosive vapors. Storage recommendations at such concentrations are to keep it cool and away from any hydrocarbons - so inside the engine compartment doesn't sound ideal.BTW, since you've now adjusted the electrolysis cell so it uses no noticeable amount of water, where do you think the energy is coming from to replace the saved gasoline?PS My recollection of the Prius vs. Hummer report was that it was a bunch of BS. One example was that it assumed the Prius would be consigned to a scrap heap at only 100,000 miles while the Hummer would be running fine for 300,000 miles.

[joholste]

Hmmm...maybe my wife'll let me get this until i can get my turbo so that i save money this way...sounds kinda cool. ofcourse i'll be uninstalling it when i get my turbo...but depending on the car we get her...i might be able to install it in her's

[Sublimewind]

It might be a more expensive soulition, but a good stand alone engine management system would net you better results... It's well known that much of the fuel entering an engine is used more for cooling than for actual combustion.. being able to control a properly leaned out mixture without burning anything up would net better economy, add to that a water/methonol injection system and THEN you would be on the path toward divinity.. Just my opinion though...

[engineertwin2]

I agree with Prathman here. If you have no noticeable loss of water, you aren't balancing out your electrolytes - you are reducing your hydrogen generation to nearly zero.I'm not saying that they aren't within the realm of credibility, but I think that if something like this is truly as good as advertised, then Detroit would already have it on most of their vehicles (considering the beating they are taking in fuel economy). What are the ancillary effects? Where does the current come from for the electrolysis? how is that battery charged? I'm calling voodoo here. I'm not saying you aren't getting better gas mileage, but it may be that all you are doing is really inefficiently using your battery to assist the combustion engine.Now, if you want to see real improvements, put a battery pack that you only charge at home in the trunk of the Vibe and afix a permanent magnet motor to one of the rear wheels. Then set the circuit up for regenerative braking and have a throttle for the electric motor to bring you up to say 15-20 mph with the car in neutral and then you put her in drive. That'll improve your fuel economy.

[4azdmunky]

Quote, originally posted by engineertwin2 »I agree with Prathman here. If you have no noticeable loss of water, you aren't balancing out your electrolytes - you are reducing your hydrogen generation to nearly zero.I'm not saying that they aren't within the realm of credibility, but I think that if something like this is truly as good as advertised, then Detroit would already have it on most of their vehicles (considering the beating they are taking in fuel economy). What are the ancillary effects? Where does the current come from for the electrolysis? how is that battery charged? I'm calling voodoo here. I'm not saying you aren't getting better gas mileage, but it may be that all you are doing is really inefficiently using your battery to assist the combustion engine.Now, if you want to see real improvements, put a battery pack that you only charge at home in the trunk of the Vibe and afix a permanent magnet motor to one of the rear wheels. Then set the circuit up for regenerative braking and have a throttle for the electric motor to bring you up to say 15-20 mph with the car in neutral and then you put her in drive. That'll improve your fuel economy.The loss of water comes from boiling it out, since I've balanced the electrolite, the water turns a nice light brown when the cell is running. So i know I'm making gas. As for Detroit doing it, well its not in their best interests is it. .Of course now it is, and Detroit is not really a good measurement, otherwise Toyota would not have passed them up.As for powering it, I'm using a 3 farad capacitor, an idea that came from the Formula 0 guys in Rotterdamn. They are running hydrogen race carts. have been for about a year.i keep running into the same comments, and I have to reiterate, its not a stand alone Hydrogen system. It augments your existing fuel. Does it work, well I'm running a supercharged 1zz that was at best getting 21 MPG and is now getting 33 MPG with my heavy foot. Those are consistant logged numbers over two tanks.So far I have had zero ill effects. Oil temp 190 deg, EGT between 700-1350 (depending on speed, Oil pressure between 10-70 (depending on speed), Amps no higher than 10 amps. This is still experimental 1920's technology, so that should be remembered. But until something better comes along, that doesnt cost $70K then this will do. I have also considered using some rotational mass as a motor, and have some plans already down on paper, however thats further down the road.

[4azdmunky]

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »It might be a more expensive soulition, but a good stand alone engine management system would net you better results... It's well known that much of the fuel entering an engine is used more for cooling than for actual combustion.. being able to control a properly leaned out mixture without burning anything up would net better economy, add to that a water/methonol injection system and THEN you would be on the path toward divinity.. Just my opinion though... Already there, I have a emanage (its a bas 05 vibe with supercharger)a snow injection system (note the red line in the engine picture above going to the the intake), that brought my gas milage up to 21 from 18. I use it to keep things cool as hydrogen burns hotter.

[4azdmunky]

Quote, originally posted by prathman »I think you slipped the decimal place over.At $3/gallon gas the cost per mile at 21 mpg is 14 cents and at 33 mpg is 9 cents. So the savings, provided this mileage change is really due to the gadget, would be about 5 cents per mile.As to the peroxide, wikipedia has a decent article on its properties. It's pretty safe in the usual 3% medicinal concentration. But when you get above concentrations of 10% it becomes more hazardous and can give off explosive vapors. Storage recommendations at such concentrations are to keep it cool and away from any hydrocarbons - so inside the engine compartment doesn't sound ideal.BTW, since you've now adjusted the electrolysis cell so it uses no noticeable amount of water, where do you think the energy is coming from to replace the saved gasoline?PS My recollection of the Prius vs. Hummer report was that it was a bunch of BS. One example was that it assumed the Prius would be consigned to a scrap heap at only 100,000 miles while the Hummer would be running fine for 300,000 miles.Grrrrr, ever since I started my new job my simple math skill shave gone into the crapper! Thanks for the Wiki idea, i should have thought of that, and will check it out.I'm still trying to figure out why the water consumption is so low, however in my readings from other sites (people that have been running cells for 10 years) they are not loosing water either. Its not intuitive, but not everything in life is. My cell does not consume water, Davids GCells do not consume water, and during the bench tests once we (I working with david during the development of his cells) hit the point where we were producing hydrogen we were not consuming water. We know we were producing gas because we could light it on fire. and it is VERY energetic, so i dont recommend lighting it, thats what the blue checkvalve in the picture is for. Additionally, I should have a bubbler, but there is not much more room under the hood, and my bubbler has a leaking seal. Yes the Prius report was BS, however like Dianetics and Scientology, its an interesting concept and alternate point of view. Doesnt mean it has to be real or rational to provoke thought and consideration.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by 4azdmunky »I'm still trying to figure out why the water consumption is so low, however in my readings from other sites (people that have been running cells for 10 years) they are not loosing water either. Its not intuitive, but not everything in life is. My cell does not consume water, Davids GCells do not consume water, and during the bench tests once we (I working with david during the development of his cells) hit the point where we were producing hydrogen we were not consuming water. We know we were producing gas because we could light it on fire. I think you are producing some hydrogen and also using up some water - just not very much of either. From basic chemistry, one mole of water is 18 grams or just over half an ounce. That will produce one mole of hydrogen gas and half a mole of oxygen gas, which would be about 25 quarts of hydrogen and 12 quarts of oxygen. Burning even a pint of hydrogen would be enough to make a good bang. So it wouldn't take much water consumption at all to create enough hydrogen to detect by lighting it on fire. Making that pint of hydrogen only uses 0.01 ounces of water so you may well not notice the water consumption. Unfortunately, that pint of hydrogen also only has as much energy as about a tenth of a gram of gasoline (one very small drop) - so it's not going to have much of an effect on gas consumption. (And anyway, creating the hydrogen already used up more energy than you later get out.)AIRC, when you installed your SC, you reported that the gas mileage dropped from 30 something down to about 20. That's a much bigger decrease than I'd expect if other things (incl. driving habits) stayed the same. Now you're reporting that adding this hydrogen cell is getting you back to about the same level of gas mileage that you had originally. Just wondering if it's possible that something in the car wasn't working right after installation of the SC (maybe some emissions system component or fuel/air ratio) and that it got fixed in the process of adding the electrolysis cell.

[kunkstyle]

Quote, originally posted by prathman »AIRC, when you installed your SC, you reported that the gas mileage dropped from 30 something down to about 20. That's a much bigger decrease than I'd expect if other things (incl. driving habits) stayed the same.Haha - keyword there is driving habits. Theoretically that's the upside to a supercharger, is that it doesn't impact mileage when not engaged. But who puts in an SC not to use it?

[4azdmunky]

Quote, originally posted by kunkstyle »Haha - keyword there is driving habits. Theoretically that's the upside to a supercharger, is that it doesn't impact mileage when not engaged. But who puts in an SC not to use it?HeeheeeeI actually brought this up in a previous post, what I took away from that dialog was that I was lucky to get 21 MPG with the SC, especually at the Denver altitude.Prathman- Your right, its not good enough to say something works, I should quantify the result by trying other test methods and see if the results reach the same conclusions.I do know one test I can do, on my fourth refill I'll turn off the cell. If my MPG drops to 21 then the cell would be the effective variable. I would do it on the third tank, however it takes three data points to derive an average. I can start posting my data after my third tank, posting them now would be inconclusive as they are incomplete, however I can keep posting my results back here if people are interested in following the results.

[nate06]

My supervisor did a lot of research on Hydrogen injection and then he built his own system. We were talking about this the other day and he was explaining to me that the system also allows the gasoline to be used more efficiently, so that you will get more energy out of the gas which is where the bigger savings come from.

[ToolGuy]

Very, very cool! Congrats!

[kevera]

Quote, originally posted by prathman » you reported that the gas mileage dropped from 30 something down to about 20. That's a much bigger decrease than I'd expect if other things (incl. driving habits) stayed the same. Now you're reporting that adding this hydrogen cell is getting you back to about the same level of gas mileage that you had originally. Just wondering if it's possible that something in the car wasn't working right after installation of the SC (maybe some emissions system component or fuel/air ratio) and that it got fixed in the process of adding the electrolysis cell. I have to say,my fuel mileage decreased with the s/c install as well.You have to remember that there is another larger injector added to the equation,which pumps extra fuel as the timing is retarded,but also for cooling.I give him an A+ for his efforts,I don't think anyone else here has tried it on a N/A Vibe,let alone a F/I one.

[engineertwin2]

Quote, originally posted by nate06 »My supervisor did a lot of research on Hydrogen injection and then he built his own system. We were talking about this the other day and he was explaining to me that the system also allows the gasoline to be used more efficiently, so that you will get more energy out of the gas which is where the bigger savings come from.Not sure how this would occur Nate. There are built in inefficiencies in the combustion of gasoline that are inherent in the mechanical design of the engine. Adding hydrogen won't improve or correct these.The only way to improve these inefficiencies is to reduce the exhaust temperature further (by extracting more energy out, the exhaust temperature goes down). If the exhaust temperature drops too far, your catalytic converters will become ineffective as they only work at temperature.

[VforVIBE]

I think it's very interesting, something I'll have to think about after my Vibe come out of warranty.

[ProtonXX]

Glad to see someone else doing water splinting. I tried it with a Joe Cell & aquatune last year but didn't get good results.Prices have dropped too Fuull Generators was costing $400-$700 & wasnt working for me. The Joe Cell I bought cost $120 tho. Guess Ill sell it & try the clear glass cell one day

[4azdmunky]

I could see how this makes gas burn more efficiently. Gas does not burn, it is not flammable, the fumes are. The fumes make it possible to burn the oxygen in the air more efficiently. Since hydrogen is a gas, its lighter than air, and its mixing with the fumes from the injected gas, why wouldn’t it allow the oxygen in the air charge to burn more efficiently? It’s doing the same thing as the gas fumes does, only more effectively.Thinking back to prathmans post, he said,"AIRC, when you installed your SC, you reported that the gas mileage dropped from 30 something down to about 20. That's a much bigger decrease than I'd expect if other things (incl. driving habits) stayed the same. Now you're reporting that adding this hydrogen cell is getting you back to about the same level of gas mileage that you had originally. Just wondering if it's possible that something in the car wasn't working right after installation of the SC (maybe some emissions system component or fuel/air ratio) and that it got fixed in the process of adding the electrolysis cell. "I wonder if that by adding the hydrogen to the compressed air charge, it really just balanced out to close to the MPG it was making before by returning to some air to fuel to energy to efficiency balance that existed but was lost by the added injector?

[lexicon]

Sorry man,not trying to insult you , but , I am a serious doubter of your claimIf what you are inferring is that you got 21 mpg and now get 33 mpg, without affecting or fixing anything on your previous system. AND, that , the sole reason for your increase in mileage is due to your device, then I can infer that if I get 30mpg now, I can now get 47 mpg.Right. Is this the conclusion ? Everything else being equal ?I am thinking this is BS.Interesting, but , where is the proof, where is the documented evidence.This would be god's gift to the oil crisis.I will believes it when I seez it.It will be interesting to see if anyone with the same family of Toyota engine bites on this one.Where's the beef ?

[4azdmunky]

As for does it work, well:BMW is releasing a car with the same technical concepts.Lexus is releasing a car with the same concepts.Honda is releasing a car with the same concepts.The guy that got me interested in this is talking with Volvo North America to install his cells in their delivery trucks.Not long ago Energy Suspension motor mount inserts absolutely did not install on 05 auto vibes, then someone bought a set and guess what......they fit! So before poopooing stuff, try doing some research or some experiments yourself. I pointed out several times in this thread, its 1920's PROVEN concepts, its using modern materials, and I posted my original data from my first tank of gas with the cell running with balanced electrolyte doing highway driving. So give it some time for me to bank up some data before demanding proof. The data is being logged; however it takes a while to work through a tank. If you want to doubt it go for it, I'm not telling you to go out and buy one. To be honest, I really don’t care if you or anyone wants to doubt it. I'm posting for those that are open minded and want to be part of a solution instead of continue being part of the problem.

[prathman]

The reason why I and several others are skeptical of this particular concept is that *there's no energy source*. Sure you can run engines on hydrogen gas; and certainly you can obtain hydrogen from water by electrolysis. But no one has ever found a way to get as much energy by burning the hydrogen obtained this way from water than they first had to put into the water in the form of electricity. Doing so would violate the basic laws of thermodynamics and those laws have held up very well despite numerous attempts by people to get around them.And none of the cars you mention, by BMW, Lexus, and Honda, propose to run their engines on hydrogen gas *that's generated by splitting water using electricity produced by that same engine*.So in light of your reported mileage improvements I see three ways to interpret them:1) a fundamentally new concept has been found that overthrows our understanding of thermodynamics, frees us from the constraints of energy conservation, and will transform the entire global economy - would be nice, but I think is unlikely.2) after installation of your SC, your engine was running rather inefficiently for some reason (maybe excessively rich, or lean, maybe inappropriate timing, etc.) and in the process of adding this device this condition was corrected. Since 33 mpg is within the normal range for the Vibe this doesn't seem too unreasonable.3) your results are either miscalculated or a deliberate deception - possible, but not what I currently believe based on your statements and how you've presented the results.

[ProtonXX]

'What if' arguments dont make sense. "What if this worked, then everyone would have done it by now""what if deisal engines were better than gas engines..then every car would have them already" o wait diesels are better Anyway 4azdmunky, did you put together the pulse circuit yourself or had it pre-made already? I believe with that and the camcom Im getting I can piece everything together to work better.

[4azdmunky]

I picked up a kit from Hydrogen Garage, it was $22 and i had to solder it. The directions are very well written, and I felt the cost of the kit was less than trying to reinvent the wheel or trying to dig up the parts myself:http://stores.homestead.com/hy...no=10I also have an emanage that is tuned for the supercharger. I'm waiting until I finish up this tank of gas, then I want to take it in and have a new map made plus dyno for the hydro cell. Then I'll have:-My original dyno for water injection and supercharger-The data for the last three tanks. I threw out the data for the first 2 tanks, I was running a mix of windshield washer fluid and methanol in the water injector and I was thinking that that was skewing results. As a result the new numbers are averaging to 27 MPG instead of 33 MPG. The other variable is the average of the three tanks that I am calculating in my data are skewed by highway and city driving.-Dyno with the cell on showing delta between with and without. Not sure what I'm expecting out of this,but i'm sure it will be interesting.Either way its still better than the 21 i was getting. I think a emanage tune will recoupe some of that delta.

[ProtonXX]

PWN is built. Very easy & also its my first time soldering anything.How did you tap the power off the battery? Im considering using the headlight fuse to splice into it(since its the only fuse thats activated by ignition).

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[4azdmunky]

I ran a direct line from the battery to a 3 farad cap, then ran the + side of the cell to the cap. For the negitave, I ran it to a ground point in the engine bay.BATT(+) ---- (+)[CAP](+)-------(+)[CELL] (-) (-) (-) | | | |-----------------|--------------------|

[ProtonXX]

Got the parts in today. but I noticed theres an option to drill a breather on the top of the lid. Have you done this or did you only hook up the gas out line to the PCV / airbox. Ill probably be up and experimenting tomorrow.

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[4azdmunky]

no i did not drill for that line. The purpose is that line goes to your exhaust and it pulls a little exhaust to knock the bubbles off the plates. It is supposed to shake out more Hydrogen. I went with the vacuum route after finding some research about how vacuum drops the amount of amps needed, thus lowering temperature of the water. hydrogen is optimally produced at between 80-83 deg.

[ProtonXX]

O ok. Nonstop suction would be perfect because I have it drilled into my intake. My intake tap-in HATED breathers

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[09Red_Se]

Water + winter = iceThere's a lot of info on Brown's gas - and I'd be willing to experiment if the price is right.Just curious - does the electolyte change the specific gravity enough not to freeze in winter?What's your experience (or do you live in Florida - lol) ?

[09Red_Se]

The cap is redundant (save your $).You are running the unit off your charging system. The cap is in parallel with the battery, and is just a storage tank for electrons like the battery - though with significantly less capacity than the battery.The cap will filter any ripple from the alternator and inductive loads in the car very nicely. That's one mother of a cap

[ProtonXX]

Im just using a fuse tap (plugs into the headlight fuse, goes to the PWM then hydrocell).However my PWM is blown for some reason & the M- screw is leaking 12v. I COULD run the cell straight & thats working fine however the cell would rust in a week..hoping the PWM would stop that.The total I paid was about $170 total

[4azdmunky]

Mine made it through the Colorado winter just fine. Besides the water heats as it breaks the bonds.

[4azdmunky]

Quote, originally posted by 09Red_Se »The cap is redundant (save your $).You are running the unit off your charging system. The cap is in parallel with the battery, and is just a storage tank for electrons like the battery - though with significantly less capacity than the battery.The cap will filter any ripple from the alternator and inductive loads in the car very nicely. That's one mother of a cap It is redundant, however running right from the battery overloads it and causes the charging circuit to stop working. When I added the capacitor, an idea taken from the Formula 0 racers in Rotterdamn that have been racing using caps for about a year now on just hydrogen, I stopped overloading the car.

[4azdmunky]

Quote, originally posted by ProtonXX »Im just using a fuse tap (plugs into the headlight fuse, goes to the PWM then hydrocell).However my PWM is blown for some reason & the M- screw is leaking 12v. I COULD run the cell straight & thats working fine however the cell would rust in a week..hoping the PWM would stop that.The total I paid was about $170 totalI ended up burning out the MOSFET. The neg side of the filter cap touched the heatsink and all the magical blue smoke leaked out.I looked around and could not find that MOSFET anywhere, so i ordered another kit. Right now I'm running without the PWM and everything seems fine, except my MPG dropped to 27. Which is ok, I'm still happy with the results.

[ProtonXX]

http://www.electronic-light.com/advan.html

[4azdmunky]

yeah, it looks like hydrogarage gets the kits from there and sells them with markup. Unfortunatly electronic-light only takes CC over fax...ugh

[4azdmunky]

yeah, it looks like hydrogarage gets the kits from there and sells them with markup. Unfortunatly electronic-light only takes CC over fax...ugh

[vibolista]

This is very cool. Could we use a solar cell to produce the energy required to separate hydrogen from water? I read somewhere that this was done many years ago. What power levels are required? Would be interesting to see the mileage improvement results from a Vibe without a Supercharger.