CVT Transmission cars

[GoLowDrew]

All Nissan FWD atuomatic cars are CVT. What do you think of CVT? I read all the reviews. The feel. The difference. My question is on reliability. What have you heard?I reaserched, and Nissan Murano with CVT had problems when it get's old like 75K miles. The thing is, if you look for proof of problems, you'll find them.What is your general take on CVT reliability? I would think Nissan would have done lots of research and test to make it a standard across the board. Then again, it's all about the $$$$. It cost $$$ to develop a new 6 spd auto.

[lovemyraffe]

I'm not a big fan of the CVT. PITA to work on. I really don't like the constant whirring sound they make.

[northvibe]

in theory these things are amazing...well on paper too. they should put down good numbers for speed and mpg. But yes the reliability isnt there yet i dont think. the vue's was cancelled. I think they just need more time, ford worked with some germany company? (i think idk it was some other company in a diff country) to design theirs. otherwise snow mobiles have them I havent driven a cvt yet but hear they can take a bit to get used to. I think if properly taken care of (fluid change etc) and not beat on, they should be ok.

[Whelan]

The whole idea of a single expanding belt to power your tranny just does not sit well with me. And they are weird to get used to as they don't have gears, so all the familiar noises are gone.

[GoLowDrew]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe » I think if properly taken care of (fluid change etc) and not beat on, they should be ok.Does anyone know if there are special maintances with CVT? That would be more or different from regular type of transmissions?

[northvibe]

I think they use chains in some, so there must be some sort of lubrication. May be best to see what type of car you're looking at and then search for a forum with that car and then search that forum for cvt maintenance.

[Sputnik]

I have a CVT in my Rogue and I love it. Okay its only got 2000km on it, but I find it really quiet and really smooth. Some on the Rogue forum have complained about a vibration in the steering wheel around 40mph (attributed to the CVT http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/295532) and I do feel that, but its not enough to bug me. Here's a couple of CVT related threads from the Rogue forumhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/305755http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=297516

[Sputnik]

Go here to the Nissan forum: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zeromainDo a search for CVT... tons of stuff pops up.

[vibe-04]

The CVT's I've seen have a fixed belt and the pully "cones" move in and out respectively to provide the variable ratio. Think of the pulley systems on a drill press but with no grooves moving the fixed belt up and down.The idea car would be a rotary engine and the CVT transmission. About 1/8 the parts and 1/3 the weight. Bit, alas, until materials are available that can withstand the sealing pressure of a rotary engines or belts the strain of variable transmission I'll stick to the Vibe

[ToolGuy]

My Jeep has a CVT trans. It is a version of the Nissan made by JATCO. Japanese Automatic Transmission Company. 20,000 miles on mine and I cannot compare it to another since this is my first. I will say it has a low range and you can tell when it goes from it to the high range. When you floor it is really is fun to see the RPM needle go to redline and stay there. Since it constantly goes up and RPMs do not lower as a conventional trans between gears, again when floored, it really moves since it keeps accelerating in seconds! When you do step on the gas or give it a lot, maybe it is a Chrysler/Jeep feature but you can feel a spot in the pedal to overcome before the power comes on. It was written into the owners manual as this is normal and hold it there or push past it. Maybe newer versions do not have this...Also, it never bothered me like some say it does or would to not feel the gears shifting. I get in and go and the radio drowns out any constant noises. Really, I do not even notice now it is a CVT.For reliability, I do not know. I mean it really is a band, I have seen one apart. If the band breaks or is old and stretches, I imagine you all need a new one or if breaks you are dead in the water. Just my 2 cents!

[JPWhite]

CVT's have been around since the 1970's when DAF of Europe invented the technology. They used Rubber V belts on their cars and Steel belts on their commercial vehicles. The first successful auto trans for a big rig as far as I am aware. The cars had reliability issues around 60,000 miles, the belts would deteriorate and start coming to pieces. Cutting/removing the bad belt and running on just one belt was the roadside remedy until you could get it serviced (they were not sealed units in those days). With modern CVT's I think they just use one belt and a set of cones.Greatest advantage as a driver of these early CVT's was that you were always in the right gear coming out of a curve, always handy to keep the speed up! I've just experienced the Altima CVT and it is much quieter than the old technology and downshifting is very smooth and gradual in comparison. I look forward to driving one again.The 1970 commercial vehicles were very reliable over long distances. With 40 years of engineering advances since then, they should be very reliable indeed (as long as the engineers aren't encouraged to make them too cheaply to save costs).JP

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by JPWhite »CVT's have been around since the 1970's when DAF of Europe invented the technology. ...DAF already had CVT cars in the late '50s. When I was in Germany in the early '60s they had a reputation for needing frequent maintenance due to belt stretching - but the materials and designs may have improved in the interim.

[JPWhite]

Thanks for the info!! Had no idea they had been around that long with that technology!If I remember rightly DAF was purchased by International Harvesters in the late 70's and the car division resold quickly to Volvo. I remember seeing the Volvo 66's (A redesigned/rebadged DAf 66) for a year or two before they died out. Not sure what Volvo ever did with the technology? The rumor at the time was that they thought they were buying the rights to the steel belt technology and ended up with only the rights to the ribbed rubber V-belt technology. Then again it was only a rumor.JP

[northvibe]

well I had a dodge caliber as my loaner car when mine was in the shop for a deer dented door... I must say (I hate the caliber) the cvt is a MUST for auto cars. Why should a auto even shift? theres logically ZERO point for it to do that, its wasteful. The tranny was smooth accelerating but once you were like coasting and floored it...kinda lagged a little. I also got 35mpg in the caliber on hwy..not bad.

[ramenboy...]

didn't the a4 have a cvt? i remember audi advertising that like maybe 5 years ago?

[shemp]

I can't comment on reliability or longevity in cars, but the same technology has been used in snowmobiles since the beginning of time, and works great. For those who don't know how it works, this picture is what the system looks like at idle. When you throttle up, the plates of the left clutch squeeze together, and the friction on the belt sends power to the drive wheels causing the vehicle to move. As RPM's increase the plates squeeze closer together effectively changing the diameter of the pulley. As the left pulley diameter gets larger, the plates on the right clutch move apart making the pulley diameter smaller. The effect is the same as gears on a mountain bike... a small front sprocket and large rear gives you max power, but low speed. A larger front sprocket and small rear gives you less power, but more speed.On paper CVT's would be great in cars for the same reason they are great on snowmobiles. In theory if you were to design a car around a CVT, you could have a small engine with a massive turbo on it, giving it a narrow power-band, which the CVT could exploit perfectly. You would have great acceleration, and low fuel consumption when cruising.

[ned23]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »in theory these things are amazing...well on paper too. they should put down good numbers for speed and mpg. But yes the reliability isnt there yet i dont think. the vue's was cancelled..Yep, that's pretty much what I heard as well. Fantastic in theory but problematic in practice. IIRC the Mini also recalled their CVT and pulled it from production after 1/2 a model year (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The system most people went with was the belt system shown above. They tend to be ok for some lighter, lower-power vehicle applications (they're awesome on motor scooters) but they do not hold up as well when you put a lot of power on them. Also, some of the designs, like the belt, are not as efficient when you scale them up for large vehicles. the internal resistance losses cancel out much of the efficiency gains you get by allowing the motor to run in its "sweet spot". That said, I think we will eventually more CVTs. The CVT technology is just kind of young now; it's about where conventional automatics were in the 1950s.

[June]

The wife has a CVT tranny in her 08 Jeep Patriot. I gotta admit it take a little while to get used to it but I honestly like the way it drives. The only bad is there is a slight lag when you step on it to lets say jump out into traffic or cut over into another lane. You have to get a feel for it and adjust the way you drive. It's apparently maintenance free with just a change of the fluid at proper intervals.Well see how long it last or should I say how long Chrysler last.

[lowincash]

i've test driven a few cars with cvt, the 07 altima, 08 sentra se-r and 08 jeep compass. yeah it was smooth but and does take time to get use to it. i am too use to a normal automatic transmission and i was expecting to feel that shift when i was driving that car with cvt lol in the end i rather have a normal automatic transmission...just sounds better when the gear change instead of that constant sound from the cvt.

[Sputnik]

I've had my CVT Rogue for over a year now, still love it. I don't get what people are talking about by saying it takes getting used to though? The only thing I noticed different about driving it over the Vibe is that its smoother and gives me a lot of power when I want it.

[JPWhite]

I believe it is quite common for drivers to find a CVT 'weird' and as creatures of habit we often avoid change. I believe it is peoples general lack of acceptance (and even derision) towards this type of technology that has kept it in the margins for so long. It will be very interesting to see how Nissan fare with their quite bold move to convert many of their vehicles to CVT starting with 2007 models. I wish them well, the technology is more efficient which can only help reduce Crude Oil consumption worldwide, if that drops off so will the price of Gasoline.As a total aside, I'd like to see wider adoption of Diesel engines in smaller vehicles in the US. Europe have embraced the technology and have very capable vehicles with few if any of the drawbacks of earlier Diesels. This change could easily reduce US Crude Consumption by 25% or more over a 10 year adoption period (without a single change in driving habits or mileage) sparking a collapse in Crude prices.Combine CVT's and Diesel and we could reduce Crude consumption even more.

[shemp]

good points, JP. I share your opinion on Diesels. I think the American public's lack of acceptance and resistance to change you mentioned is what has kept Diesels from emerging as a viable option here as well.

[JPWhite]

Shemp, We're way off topic now (sorry my fault) but add to the public's resistance to Diesels, Fords recent decision to not offer a Diesel Focus in the US even though they are doing a worldwide launch of the new Focus starting this year in Europe. Europe gets a diesel of course, just not the US. Ford cite a lack of demand for nixing this option. If you don't make one, no one will buy one for sure!Maybe Nissans bold moves and Fords limited moves underline why the big 3 US makers are in trouble, they can't/won't innovate as they ought to.

[AKLGT]

I believe the newer Subarus are coming with CVT trans as well (JATCO). I have yet to test drive one, but hope to sometime this spring/summer (when there's no snow or ice on the roads). it's hard to get a feel for the difference with all the road noise and slipping/sliding.

[ColonelPanic]

Human psychology behind the CVT Is kind of amusing. Over the years, manufacturers seem to have spent a lot of time refining their transmissions to the point where you can barely detect shifts if you can feel them at all. People don't often complain about that, and sometimes even expect that - but when you put a CVT in there suddenly the inability to feel shifting becomes a major issue. Like a mental block almost... lol!The CVT sounds promising... I personally wouldn't be too worried about failure, regular automatics can be pretty crappy in that department too. The fewer the parts to break, the better. I'd love to drive something with one some day to see what all the fuss is about.

[Sputnik]

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »I'd love to drive something with one some day to see what all the fuss is about. If you ever come to Ottawa you can try out mine, however I still don't know what the "fuss" is. Actually I didn't realize there was a fuss before this thread.

[shemp]

I had a rental Caliber with CVT, and I thought it was terrible. Not sure if I got a bad car, or the setup in the Caliber is bad..... speaking of psycology issues and resistance to change, I had read years ago that some OEM was putting a CVT in a car (I think it was Audi) and they put artificial bumps in the shift pattern to simulate a traditional auto-tranny. I was embarrassed to be a human when I read that.

[Sputnik]

Quote, originally posted by shemp »I had a rental Caliber with CVT, and I thought it was terrible. Not sure if I got a bad car, or the setup in the Caliber is bad.So I'm thinking that the Caliber CVT must be just crap. Friends of ours also rented one and were commenting on how they had to "get used to it" and it was constantly revving? My Nissan is nothing like that - its quiet and you'd never even know you're driving a CVT.

[JPWhite]

Quote, originally posted by Sputnik »So I'm thinking that the Caliber CVT must be just crap. Friends of ours also rented one and were commenting on how they had to "get used to it" and it was constantly revving? My Nissan is nothing like that - its quiet and you'd never even know you're driving a CVT. It may also be driving style. I have found with the Altima that if you accelerate hard, one does get the impression that the transmission is 'slipping' and the revs do stay elevated until you back off, even so it is much smoother than the lurch you get when flooring it with a conventional auto transmission. With gradual acceleration it is as yous say, very quiet and you don't notice what type of transmission you have.

[shemp]

I'm sure the system Nissan and others are using is more refined than the early Caliber I drove.