Rear Drum Brake Replacement

[ilangsfs]

I did a quick search but didn't find much on this topic, so I guess I'll start a new one. The time has come for some rear brake replacement action and it's been a long time since I've done drum brakes. Is there anything special I should look out for on these cars? Also, does anyone perhaps have an electronic copy of the service manual or possible just the pages dealing with rear drum brakes they'd be willing to send me? Like I said, it's been a long time since I've done drum brakes, and while it's not that I don't think I can do it, but rather I think it'd go easier if I got some intel ahead of time. Thanks in advance!Christian

[ilangsfs]

Oh, by the way, I have a 2003 base model, no mods.

[Mavrik]

I don't believe anything is different really from these rear drum brakes to most other cars. So if your familer with doing drum brakes on other vehicles, it will be pretty straight forward for you. When I had mine off to paint the drums on my base 04 Vibe, they didn't look complicated at all.

[keithvibe]

give me a second.. and i will post all the info you neededitIf you have a hard time reading them IM me your email And i can send you the photos

[joatmon]

don't know how many miles you have on the Vibe, but its likely the rear brakes are still finemy 2 bits is in http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=26369

[keithvibe]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »don't know how many miles you have on the Vibe, but its likely the rear brakes are still finemy 2 bits is in http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=26369thats funny joat.... my wifes 2000 cavalier is still running the oem drum brake shoes. All i did this summer was adjust them.

[WaveAction]

once my rear brakes go..im going this wayhttp://www.neverenoughauto.com...=2561

[ilangsfs]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »don't know how many miles you have on the Vibe, but its likely the rear brakes are still fineMy Vibe has about 52.5K miles on it, so normally, I'd agree with you that they're prolly alright. But, my sister in law decided it'd be funny to drive 10 or so miles with the parking brake on. I'll admit I haven't pulled the drums off yet and actually looked at them, but they sure don't soundlike they're alright.Thanks a bunch to the rest of you for your quick responses. We'll see what she looks like in a couple days when I get some time. If anyone else would like to share input/personal experiences, that'd be great. Thanks again!

[damronjr]

Quote, originally posted by WaveAction »once my rear brakes go..im going this wayhttp://www.neverenoughauto.com...=2561VERY nice, pricey, but looks awesome!

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by WaveAction »once my rear brakes go..im going this wayhttp://www.neverenoughauto.com...=2561Very nice, but also VERY un-nessassary... if you were doing track days every weekend, sure, but if not, it's throwinf money at a hole in the ground... and i'm not trying to be a jerk either... you would be sooooo much better of, putting that money in the front brakes where 70% of the braking gets done, sure doing the rears would LOOK INCREDIBLE, but you gonna dump that linda money in looks that don't really perform?

[Whelan]

The link is taking too long to open at work. I'm guessing he is looking at some kind of rear disc conversion which on our cars is kinda pointless unless as stated above. I put the money in the front and replaced with powerslot rotors and stillen metal matrix pads. I may give another set of pads a try but I like how quiet the Stillens have always been for me.As for my rears. I'm at 61k now and have not checked them. Guess I will this summer, if I replace them it will be with the Satisfied Brake Shoes from Tirerack for cheap.

[Atomicpunk]

When you do the rear brakes only take apart one side, that way if you can't remember how it went together you can look at the other side to help. Also replace the drums with new ones, you could get them cut but they look really flimsey on the Vibe. You will see posts with people saying you don't have to replace or cut drums and rotors when you do a brake job but they are just plain wrong. New brakes - new braking surface.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by Atomicpunk » You will see posts with people saying you don't have to replace or cut drums and rotors when you do a brake job but they are just plain wrong..I guess I am just wrong then, because I don't have enough money to throw away on replacing good parts

[lovemyraffe]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »I guess I am just wrong then, because I don't have enough money to throw away on replacing good parts+1

[WaveAction]

its all personal opinions really..im sure if one did get the rear disc conversion, you can buy something that'll change the % of braking to like 60/40 or something

[kevera]

If you want rear disks then get them.I think they would be cool.The brakes suck on the Vibe anyways.

[lovemyraffe]

I agree the brakes suck and I wish I had the money to do that.

[ilangsfs]

Well, I got it done today. Boy was that a huge pain in the bahookie! I mean, it has been a reeeeally long time since I've done drum brakes, but still... I skinned the crap out of my thumb too. Oh well. It's done. Thanks for all your input.

[Atomicpunk]

If you read the sentence it says to replace or have the drums or rotors cut. Most people don't have the tools to measure drums or rotors to see if they are out of spec. If you take them to get cut hopefully the shop will measure them for you and tell you if they need to be replaced, but that is not always the case speaking from experience. If you are going to do a brake job you don't throw new brake pads or shoes on the old rotors or drums without having them cut or replaced. I can't see how you would call that throwing money away.

[Whelan]

With a set of Powerslot rotors you do no get them cut. You cannot cut a slotted or even a drilled rotor. It specifically tells us that. So I guess my argument replacing them is that I am not spending $180 for a new set of rotors when these are still thick and working fine. So a new set of $50 Stillen pads works for me.As for the rear drums. I have never replaced an entire drum, and I've had cars up to 140k miles. A set of shoes at anywhere from 60-70 works for me. And for those I'll pickup the Satisfied shoes from tirerack for a good price. I'll probably do them myself after seeing this posting.

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by Whelan »With a set of Powerslot rotors you do no get them cut. You cannot cut a slotted or even a drilled rotor. It specifically tells us that. So I guess my argument replacing them is that I am not spending $180 for a new set of rotors when these are still thick and working fine. So a new set of $50 Stillen pads works for me.As for the rear drums. I have never replaced an entire drum, and I've had cars up to 140k miles. A set of shoes at anywhere from 60-70 works for me. And for those I'll pickup the Satisfied shoes from tirerack for a good price. I'll probably do them myself after seeing this posting.that's odd, i've had my KVR rotors turned TWICE IIRC, i know for SURE at least once..... no problems ?

[Whelan]

Could be different, I know that Powerslots specifically said with the packaging that the rotors should not be turned or cut.

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by Whelan »Could be different, I know that Powerslots specifically said with the packaging that the rotors should not be turned or cut. that is quite a possibility.... would seem odd to me, what if you warped one or something, buy new... screw that...

[joatmon]

Maybe a liability issue, that rotors with slots and holes in them are structurally weaker than solid ones, so they don't want you messing with them and causing them to fly apart at speed. Emphasis on the maybe, as in "I wonder if it is within the realm of possibility ..."

[justin0469]

I have an 03 AWD Vibe w/ 88k miles. Every now and then my brakes squeak and I have no idea when or if they were ever changed. I have changed brake shoes plenty of times but never shoes. The instructions above (if that applies to AWD too) seem significantly harder then pads. Should I try or just take it some place? I'm pretty intelligent and I can usually figure out how things work as I go. I've replaced a whole disc brake system before...

[ilangsfs]

Well, ultimately, it's up to you. But, if it were me and I had the money floating around, I'd give all four wheels a once over, decide what needed replaced and do it. If anything's questionable, replace it. The peace of mind that it affords me knowing that the brakes are new and not all muffed up is good to have.

[keithvibe]

Quote, originally posted by justin0469 »I have an 03 AWD Vibe w/ 88k miles. Every now and then my brakes squeak and I have no idea when or if they were ever changed. I have changed brake shoes plenty of times but never shoes. The instructions above (if that applies to AWD too) seem significantly harder then pads. Should I try or just take it some place? I'm pretty intelligent and I can usually figure out how things work as I go. I've replaced a whole disc brake system before...The AWD drum brakes are the same as all the other so the above instructions would apply. You will need to buy a brake drum tool.... you can get by with out it, but it does make the job easier.Do one side at a time so you have a reference.

[jsimon63]

What kind of brake drum tool are we talking here? To remove the drums?

[keithvibe]

no to make it easy to remove and install the retaining springs that hold on the shoes.you can get by with using a needle nose pliers.

[jsimon63]

Ok, miss understood Brake Drum tool. I thought maybe you meant something to pull the drums when they are stuck.... 5/16-18 bolts in the provided holes and POP! I have that brake tool, and adjusting spoons and all the goodies, makes the job sooo much easier! Thanks for clarifying the tools needed.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by WaveAction »its all personal opinions really..im sure if one did get the rear disc conversion, you can buy something that'll change the % of braking to like 60/40 or somethingBut that would be a very dangerous thing to do. The reason for the high proportion of braking done by the front wheels is based on simple physics. Even at rest about 60% of the car's weight is on the front wheels and under heavy braking there's an effective shift to a much higher percentage (as is evident from the front end dropping and the rear coming up during a hard stop). Change the proportioning to give more power to the rear brakes and they'll just lock up prematurely. That's likely to result in the rear end of the car breaking loose and an uncontrollable spin of the car.ABS could prevent the spin out but would also defeat the attempt to proportion more of the braking power to the rear.

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by prathman »But that would be a very dangerous thing to do. The reason for the high proportion of braking done by the front wheels is based on simple physics. Even at rest about 60% of the car's weight is on the front wheels and under heavy braking there's an effective shift to a much higher percentage (as is evident from the front end dropping and the rear coming up during a hard stop). Change the proportioning to give more power to the rear brakes and they'll just lock up prematurely. That's likely to result in the rear end of the car breaking loose and an uncontrollable spin of the car.ABS could prevent the spin out but would also defeat the attempt to proportion more of the braking power to the rear.The above would be the exact reason, to change to the 4 wheels disc master cylininder at the same time as a rear disc conversion, either that, or an adjustable perportioning valve, that way you could dial it in and forget it..

[justin0469]

So I was considering just having some place do it for me but when I went to get a quote they wanted $140! So now I am back to doing it myself but have no idea how. In the instructions it continually references "SST" and it seems to be a different tool every time. I also see that it says to replace a C clip. Is this a generic part or Vibe specific? Also, I have bled all disc brake calipers before but never drained or done anything with drums. How and why do I need to completely drain the brakes and bleed them and the master cylinder?I'm a newb...

[joatmon]

a couple of months ago, you said you had 88K miles on the car, and were having a random brake squeak. If it were my car, I'd do two things first.- verify whether the squeak was from the front or rear brakes Can't remember the last time I had drum brakes squeak. Discs lots of times- look at the rear brake shoes before deciding to replace them Mine looked almost new thickness at over 100K miles. bleeding the rear drum brakes is like bleeding the front disc brakes. There is a bleed nipple on the backside (cue drunkenmaxx) loosen it as someone slowly presses and holds the brake pedal, tighten the fitting, release the brake pedal slowly. Repeat as necessary. I know some people use a prolonged bleed process to flush out the brake lines, but you shouldn't need to bleed the brakes if all you are doing is replacing the brake shoes, just as you shouldn't need to bleed the front discs when only replacing the pads. I have herad there can be difficulty bleedinghte master ABS control, so I recommend never draining the brake system completely. you asked how and why to drain and bleed the master cylinder, my short answer would be don't mess with it unless you are having soft spongy brakes indicating air in the brake system, jsut keep the level above min.I don't know about the C washer in the instructions. I bought a set of shoes but never used them since the old ones were plenty fine still. Maybe there are a pair of C washers in the box. I'll check when I get home later.The generic drum brake tool would probably make the job easier, but I don't have one, and I never think to get one, so I do without. In general though, if it's something I might use again later, I like to buy the right tool for the job, sometimes it's amazing what just the right tool can do.