car will not start

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:01 am

ok, not sure if this is in the proper topic.I have a 2003 Pontiac Vibe Sport, automatic, with approx 38k mi. I try and take care of it, fill it with the middle grade gas(2nd most expensive) and do oil changes around every 3k mi(although i am about a month overdue for an oil change at the momment).So I go to start my car and nothing happens. Then I tried it again and hold the keys in for a bit longer and it just starts a click stuttering noise? I jump started it and it started, left it on for a few minutes before turning it off. Then I went back out to start it again around an hour later and it won't start again? So I give it another jump and it worked. Took it for a spin around the block and turned it off. Started it again after a minute and again, it worked both times. I have decided to stay put for the weekend until I can bring it in to my dealer to look at, I bought it used but added an aftermarket extended warranty.I'm thinking I might need a new battery since the charge it holds is sometimes intermittent? Could it be the month long overdue oil change? My last idea is that a friend accidentally cracked my rear drivers side light cover(the top part of the red one), it made just a half inch small hold, so i covered it with packing tape. Is it possible that a bit of rain/snow leaked through the tape and affected one of the electronic sensors inside, causing the car to not start? I am thinking my later theory is a bit of a stretch? Just brainstorming here....ANY info that anyone can provide would be appreciated!!!

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:06 am

It sounds like you need a new battery. If it is the original battery they were already undersized (320CCA) to begin with. It charges enough in a short drive to start again so your alternator is probably fine. The newer Vibes were equipped with a 550CCA battery.

keithvibe · Post by **keithvibe** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:09 am

x2 on the battery... or possibly your getting a flat spot in your starter solenoid. Start with the battery. ANY parts store can check the battery for you free of charge... HAHAA no pun in tended lol Then can also check your alternator to make sure it's doing it's job in keeping the battery charged.

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:01 am

x3 on the battery......

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:29 am

battery. you still rocking the lame 330CCA OEM one? If so, get rid of it!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:13 am

x5, Raven's got my vote

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ramenboy... · Post by **ramenboy...** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:59 am

x6. but i'd check the alternator too to be safe. is there a squeaking sound when you hit the gas? like with lights on and radio and other stuff?

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:54 pm

Even a 550 CCA would be suspect at 5 years. Replaced mine with a 600+ CCA from Costco for $54.99. Same as the $69.99 Durlast sold at AutoZone. Got a set of those red & black anticorrosion pads at Sears for 99 cents. I hear that is a good idea.

lovemyraffe · Post by **lovemyraffe** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:05 pm

x7 for the battery

zionzr2 · Post by **zionzr2** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:30 am

oh why not!!x8 for the battery

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:58 am

WOW, thank you to EVERYONE for all the great info...fer serious tho, this really helps cuz i get very overwelmed with car stuff....ok, its sunday and i've been driving and it seems to hold its charge now? I'm wondering if I should still get a new battery. I think I am gonna take the advice of going to an autoparts store and have them check the battery, its free? Alternator? hmm, I might have to have the dealer look at that....I'm not sure if the battery is the infamous 320 you all speak of, but I will check first thing in the morning...thats weird how they put in an underrated battery?

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:00 pm

hey ramenboy,well, when it wouldn't start and when i did hold down the gas it actually made like a clicking/stuttering noise? But now it starts ok?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:20 pm

Quote, originally posted by fmbighair Â»I'm not sure if the battery is the infamous 320 you all speak of, but I will check first thing in the morning...thats weird how they put in an underrated battery? The original batteries had a lot of japanese writing oin them, but somehwere it showed the CCA rating. One factor that will affect your battery is temperature. The battery will be able to put out less current when really cold, and it was the northern genvibers that first ran into battery problems in the 2003's - http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=2976

prathman · Post by **prathman** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:02 pm

Quote, originally posted by fmbighair Â»ok, its sunday and i've been driving and it seems to hold its charge now? I'm wondering if I should still get a new battery.Yes. It's not at all uncommon for batteries to fail and then partly recover for a short period of time. But the next time it fails may well be much less convenient - i.e. sometime at night and far from home or when you really need to drive somewhere. Much better to replace it now.Most places that sell new car batteries will test your old one and will also check the basic operation of your charging system, incl. the alternator. They don't want you coming back later and blaming their battery.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:32 pm

Too bad you don't have a manual trans, then you can bump start it while you procrastinate on buying a new battery.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:47 pm

Quote, originally posted by Raven Â»Too bad you don't have a manual trans, then you can bump start it while you procrastinate on buying a new battery. Actually you can only bump start the car or todays manual trans cars if you have battery power. You need to turn on the electronics in order for the car to start. No power equals no computer turn on...

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:51 pm

Quote, originally posted by fmbighair Â»well, when it wouldn't start and when i did hold down the gas it actually made like a clicking/stuttering noise? But now it starts ok? The battery is slowing dying since it will hold a charge at times and not others. Temperature has some to do with it as well. If it is cold out it will not start the car but if it warms up a little it may then. Holding down the gas has nothing to do with it... Once it started to crank if you held down the gas it may have started quicker but in general had nothing to do with the battery. The clicking is normal when the battery is weak, it is the sound of the starter trying to engage. I just replaced my original 2003 battery last year. I got a lot of life out of it. I do not suspect your alternater but if you remove it, it also can be tested. Or a local garage or dealer could probably do it while still connected to the engine. If you have not replaced the battery by now, you are on borrowed time my friend!

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:04 am

The Almighty is sending you a sign my friend. Get a new battery!

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:35 pm

well, it's been a while since I've had the problem and the battery seems to hold its charge now. I ended up going to the WalMart mechanic, he hooked it up to his machine and said that the battery was fine? I asked him how much juice it has, but he said something like it only displays if it works or it doesn't? I'm wondering if I should still replace it eventho it tested to be ok. I've never had it die like that before, but like I said, seems to be ok now. I attached a pic I took of my actual battery to show you the one I have.

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:37 pm

not sure if the picture showed up last time, here's another try?

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:46 am

No pic...Well in your case I would keep an eye on it along with keeping jumper cables with you. Also, keep those battery cables tight. Temperature changes could be killing it because it is weak IMO. Sometimes it will start the car, other times it may not. Batteries do not like very, very cold or hot temps and those temps will kill a weak battery. If is is not the original battery and has been replaced with a Lead Acid Filled one with the two caps on the top, you may want to or have someone pop the caps off and check the level of acid. If low, that would cause this too. Fill it back up and see how it goes.

darcmater · Post by **darcmater** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:22 am

go with a nice DieHard Platinum Battery, all the cool guys are doing it : ) Can be found at your local Sears, or probably k-mart now sicne they own them

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:19 pm

hmm, when the mechanic hooked it up to the machine and tested it, he didn't say anything about it might be low on acid? Would that machine not detect the amount of acid? Well, like I said, so far it's been ok since then. The pic upload didn't work last time, here's a link to the pic of the battery so you can see which one I have, and maybe see how old.http://farm4.static.flickr.com...b.jpg I've had the car approx 2 years, so the battery is at least that old.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:41 pm

I don't remeber exactly when they switched to a bigger factory battery, but that is the old original 310 CCA one. Looks like a hint of green near the + terminal, might want make sure the terminals are clean.I saved off your picture, and uploaded it to an earlier post of mine in this thread (above) didn't have any problems. I saved it off with a little (unnoticeably) lower quality, resized to 640 wide, cut the file size to a good bit, and here that one is

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fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:47 pm

oh, I do see the green stuff you mentioned. When I had the mechanic test the battery, he said he cleaned the terminals a bit, so it was prolly worse before, wow...but yeah, what can i clean the terminals with? just water?yeah, i was wondering why the pic never uploaded to this site, I think you are right, the file must have been too big....I'll definitly remember to shrink it next time. thanks for the tip!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:58 pm

the pic wasn't too big to upload, but it was wider than I liked, having it show in line made me need to scroll horizontally to find the reply/edit links. I usually use a wire brush or sandpaper to clean battery terminals. They are made of lead, so you can use the scrapings for Chinese toys. If someone already cleaned them, then they are probably ok now. Could be that was the main cause of your problems. However, ...You can look at the sticker in the door jamb to get the month/year your Vibe was built (my '03 was July 02). Yours is also 2003 Vibe, with the original battery, so that battery is starting to get old as far as batteries go. You will need to replace it at some point. If you skate by the cold weather ok on this original one this winter, you should seriously think about replacing it before it gets cold again.

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:11 pm

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»I usually use a wire brush or sandpaper to clean battery terminals. They are made of lead, so you can use the scrapings for Chinese toys.HA HA....nice one!Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»the pic wasn't too big to upload, but it was wider than I liked, having it show in line made me need to scroll horizontally to find the reply/edit links. oh, well if it wasn't too big a file for upload I'm not sure why it didn't upload to the message board when i tried? Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»If you skate by the cold weather ok on this original one this winter, you should seriously think about replacing it before it gets cold again. yeah, i think this will be my last winter with this battery, i'll prolly replace it this summer.thanks for the info!

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:02 am

I just had to replace my stock battery, it was leaking (which is WHY you see the green stuff) and starting to worry me about starting the car... A Joatmon said, once the terminals are off they can be cleaned with a wire brush... but to GET to that point, I had to make a mix of about 1/2 cup of baking soda (sodium bycarbonate) and warm water... I'll let the pics explaine the rest... First pour of the mix... This is how bad the acid, ate the stock terminal... 50$ for the Nap-ster battery.. 1.50 fir the new terminal, and I had some Dielectric greese on hand (great for ANY electrical connection..)

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:33 am

hey Sublimewind,THANKS so much for the detailed response, I really appreciate it! Ok, I'm kinda stupid when it comes to cars so bear with me....that green stuff(pic 5) with the bubbles(pic 4) , was that supposed to happen? I don't understand what the problem was? So the "terminals" are the silver things that connect the wires to the battery, right? Are you saying that since the acid from the battery was leaking so bad, you couldn't disconnect the terminals anymore so you had to make that baking soda mixture?

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:56 am

Quote, originally posted by fmbighair Â»hey Sublimewind,THANKS so much for the detailed response, I really appreciate it! Ok, I'm kinda stupid when it comes to cars so bear with me....that green stuff(pic 5) with the bubbles(pic 4) , was that supposed to happen? I don't understand what the problem was? So the "terminals" are the silver things that connect the wires to the battery, right? Are you saying that since the acid from the battery was leaking so bad, you couldn't disconnect the terminals anymore so you had to make that baking soda mixture?the green stuff you see on the terminals is oxidation, just like an old penny.. The factory terminals are copper, so hense the green... All the bubbly stuff is the baking soda mix, neutralizing the acid (baking soda ia an alkaline, so they neutralize each other) And yes that is supposed to happen.. And you got it, the terminals are connected to the battery posts, and the acid attacket so bad, you can see parts of the stock terminal are missing... the nut, which was copper as well, was so eaten, I couldn't get a wrench on it, and ended up using pliers on it and destroied it.. hense the new "lead" terminal you see in the last 2 pics..

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:40 am

In your pic Joatmon re-sized for you there is a window on top of the battery. In your case it is covered with dirt. The window is next to the Neg battery post. Wipe it off. If you cannot see a green eye or light in the window, your battery is low on acid. If is is black, it is time to replace. Either condition though. This type or your type, cannot be refilled with acid... It does not have the two caps I mentioned earlier.

zionzr2 · Post by **zionzr2** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:30 am

While baking soda is prefered. A carbonated beverage will work as well to remove the corotion around the terminals.

09Red_Se · Post by **09Red_Se** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:48 am

Dirty battery terminals.Had a car that I went into a store for a drink, came back 5 mins, and all you could get was solenoid to chatter.Corrosion causes resistance, resistance in cct causes voltage drop, therefore not enough voltage to run starter. Horn, lights and radio all work (low current).V=IR High current, plus resistance = high voltage drop across corroded connection. Not enough voltage for starter.Radio drew low current, therefore low voltage drop across corroded terminal.Garage I called said clean terminals before he sent tow truck.Honest guy for once - that's all it was. Cleaned terminals and Vvrooom.

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:28 am

thanks Sublimewind, that definitly cleared it up for me. I'm learning a lot from this board!

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:36 am

wow, I didn't even know that that little window was there and that batteries can be refilled with more acid? You mentioned that my battery does have that little window above the negative terminal. I'm not being sarcastic, but I couldn't help wondering why the little window is there if you can't refill it? Maybe just to see if it's low only but not to refill it? interesting...

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:41 am

09Red_Se - wow, interesting stuff about not getting enough current because of the dirty terminals. I hope you stuck with that mechanic, very honest of him!

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:24 pm

Quote, originally posted by fmbighair Â»wow, I didn't even know that that little window was there and that batteries can be refilled with more acid? You mentioned that my battery does have that little window above the negative terminal. I'm not being sarcastic, but I couldn't help wondering why the little window is there if you can't refill it? Maybe just to see if it's low only but not to refill it? interesting...These kinds of batteries are called "Maintenance Free" and are sealed for life. I prefer them and you can still get 5-7 years out of one. The window is there just to give you an idea of its current state at a glance. The kinds with caps can be messy. Of course Glass Mat like an Optima battery are the best!

fmbighair · Post by **fmbighair** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:32 am

Quote, originally posted by ToolGuy Â» Of course Glass Mat like an Optima battery are the best!why are these ones the best, just curious? Optima, isn't that a Kia?thanks again for the info

Sublimewind · Post by **Sublimewind** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:39 am

Quote, originally posted by ToolGuy Â»These kinds of batteries are called "Maintenance Free" and are sealed for life. I prefer them and you can still get 5-7 years out of one. The window is there just to give you an idea of its current state at a glance. The kinds with caps can be messy. Of course Glass Mat like an Optima battery are the best!If i'm not mistaken, the Optima is NOT a AGM or absorbed glass mat battery, but a spirial wound dry cell... The Sears Diehard platinum and brother Odyessy batterys ARE AGM batts though..

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:18 pm

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind Â»If i'm not mistaken, the Optima is NOT a AGM or absorbed glass mat battery, but a spirial wound dry cell... Probably right, I do not own one and have not read up on them lately but that sounds correct.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:19 pm

Quote, originally posted by fmbighair Â»why are these ones the best, just curious? Optima, isn't that a Kia?thanks again for the info Yup Kia but a battery too! They are the best because they can take heat and cold temps the best, can be mounted anywhere even upside down and are no maintenance.

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