Fixing my front door - hinge

[GoLowDrew]

I don't have an actual pic, but you can't see it well anyway.Problem.My front door does not close well. The top is touching the door frame. At first look, the hinges look bent. It also looks like it's coming out of the door frame bit.Example.The weight of the door may have bent it.The next step is to tighten the screws. My actual hinge have 4 screws. Two of the screws are "empty." Meaning just free spinning in there. Basically, it's screwing to nothing. So only two screws are holding the weight. Lazy/sloppy builder. House is past the warranty period by over a year. We just never noticed it.No wonder the door does not close well and/or the hinge looks bent.Question:What should I do? The fact that two of the screws are free spining worrys me. Are there no wood behind it? Did they drill too big of a hole for the screws? Do I need to mount the hinge in a different location above or below the current location?If I was to replace the door hinge, do I need to take the whole door off all the hinges? How do I "balance adjust" the door? Can I just take that one off? Again, the door is heavy.TIA

[engineertwin2]

Well, that's unfortunate about the door. If you are going to replace the hinges, then yes, you'll need to take the door off. Replacing the hinges while on the door will not get rid of your problem.As for the two 'free-spinning' screws, it's possible that they either stripped the wood out when putting them in, or they aren't grabbing much. The best way to tell will be to take the door off.Be prepared that you may need to cut this portion of the door frame out and reframe it. replacing a larger strip (like 2 ft) will be more effective than replacing a shorter strip (just wider than the hinge).The reality is that doors sag in woodframe and stucco homes. Specifically, new builders tend to put just two hinges (one at top and one at bottom) on the doors. If the door is real wood or steel (not aluminum), then the door should be supported by three or four hinges.The other option, if you aren't that great at framing/molding, is to insert longer screws into the hinges. Using 3" or 3-1/2" screws should allow you to screw into the frame of the house.

[aerineth]

Man you guys are handy.Is there anything GenVibers can't fix??

[Sublimewind]

There are different things you can do to fix what you have... The biggest is to figure out WHY it's crooked in the frame, has the frame shifted? This is a NEW house, so the house could have shifted as well... I had to re-square my front door on my, ahem, trailer home as one corner is starting to sag... You sayQuote »The top is touching the door frame.Which means one of 2 things 1. The door or frame moved from the top, toward the hinge side of the frame (or the bottom moved toward the handle side, but not likely) This depends on WHERE the door is making contact with the frame... If it on the top/horizontal of the door, the frame or house moved toward the hinges...2. If it making contact on the vertical surface of the door at the top, then the frame or house moved toward the handle side of the door... Does this make sense to you? Are there any other problems developing with the house? Like cracks in the walls anywhere? You could try and fix this on your own, or you could call a contractor and tell them you need your front door "re-squared" they will know what you are talking about... If you want to do this yourself, most times the outside trim on a door is attached from the factory and the INSIDE trim is put during finishing of the house... If you carefully remove the inside trim around the door, you'll see a rather large gap all the way around the door frame... You'll have to figure out how the door is attached to the house frame, weather it's screwed or nailed and where....Then you will have to remove the attachments and move the "shims" which you should see as soon as you remove the trim. these shims are what ultimately hold the door in square and then they are tipically nailed through to hold them in place.. Once the shims are moved to the point where the door is once square in the frame, then the door frame need to be nailed/screwed back in place and the trim nailed back up... Again, i hope this makes sense...

[GoLowDrew]

My warranty ran out a year ago. Yes, it's a wood frame stucco house. Is this a "normal" thing? If I understand what "re-squared" the front door, sounds like they would have to tear down the frame, stucco. Reframe it. Stucco it back. Paint, etc.There are conditions that the foundation will need to settle, etc.Am I on my own? Does it make sense for the builder to fix it? I'm a reasonable person and just don't want to *****, etc. I don't like what's happening, but I want to be reasonable.TIA

[engineertwin2]

Unfortunately, this is a VERY normal thing for wood frame and stucco construction. Sublime is correct that it may be possible to adjust the shims, but it depends on the fit in the first place. I think that if you go back to the manufacturer, they will tell you that this is due to foundation settling and there is nothing they can do about it.You can still contact the manufacturer and see if they will address it, but don't expect much.You will have to re-stucco if the door frame gets reshimmed.

[engineertwin2]

Quote, originally posted by aerineth »Man you guys are handy.Is there anything GenVibers can't fix??I work much better with housing construction than I do with cars...I should post some of the things I've built on here sometime...the crown jewel of the group is my bar...

[GoLowDrew]

Quote, originally posted by engineertwin2 »Unfortunately, this is a VERY normal thing for wood frame and stucco construction. Sublime is correct that it may be possible to adjust the shims, but it depends on the fit in the first place. I think that if you go back to the manufacturer, they will tell you that this is due to foundation settling and there is nothing they can do about it.You can still contact the manufacturer and see if they will address it, but don't expect much.You will have to re-stucco if the door frame gets reshimmed.Is there any long term problems if I don't fit it, in your opinion? Does it get worst? Or lead to structure damage or a security issue?I could just file the door a bit so it won't rub. BTW, it rubs on the top vertical side where the lock and handle are, if that matters.

[engineertwin2]

If it's going to get worse, it'll get worse. There's not too much you can do to keep it from happening, as the foundation takes years to settle and one might argue it never really does.If you file the door, just be aware that will cause you to replace the door or deal with an air gap those several years down the road when you decide to true the door frame and fix it.When my parents were faced with the same problem (they live in N. Tucson by the way), they simply sanded the door down a little bit up at the top corner. You may want to take a level and just see which is leaning - the door or the jamb - before you start to sanding. If it's the door, then check the hinges before you sand. Also, it's been a lot more humid lately, so you are getting door swell if its a wooden door. It will return to normal in a few months if it is humidity related.

[GoLowDrew]

Quote, originally posted by engineertwin2 »If it's going to get worse, it'll get worse. There's not too much you can do to keep it from happening, as the foundation takes years to settle and one might argue it never really does.If you file the door, just be aware that will cause you to replace the door or deal with an air gap those several years down the road when you decide to true the door frame and fix it.When my parents were faced with the same problem (they live in N. Tucson by the way), they simply sanded the door down a little bit up at the top corner. You may want to take a level and just see which is leaning - the door or the jamb - before you start to sanding. If it's the door, then check the hinges before you sand. Also, it's been a lot more humid lately, so you are getting door swell if its a wooden door. It will return to normal in a few months if it is humidity related.Now that you mentioned it. I did not notice any problem with my door before until around may when it got warm. So I don't know if that made a minor problem worst. Of if the problem is just developing now. Either case, I decided to look at it only after we have problem with the fit, to notice that the hinge looks bent and the screws were not on tight.

[Sublimewind]

You mentioned a few screws missing in the hinges and no wood behind them (i gotta say i thought you were talking about the car for a minute, i had to reread) You can repair this easily as well, you need to get some dowel rod from the hardware, then you'll need to remove the hinges and drill out the screw holes, cut some short pieces of dowel and apply some wood glue and stick it in the hole (tighter the better) let it dry and re-install the hinges, then you can drill a really small pilot hole and screw in your screws... Like i said, you should consult a general contractor or a handyman... AND the builder, maybe the builder will do something on a discount for you, considering your are just out of warrentee...

[GoLowDrew]

Thanks guys. I'll wait until it's cooler and see if that changes anything.

[GoLowDrew]

I think I need to have a pro do it. Ok, I got my phone book, who do I call? Do I look for a contractor, handyman, etc. Help me start to ask around. By looking at the phone book, I don't know what to look for.TIA

[engineertwin2]

You are looking for a handy man. If you don't find one you feel comfortable with, send me a PM. I still have family and friends down in Tucson. I know someone who could fix this for you, but don't have his number right now. I will work on getting it if you need it.Bobby

[Sublimewind]

wow, i forgot about this thread... So it got cooler eh, what's it at now 95??? lol...

[GoLowDrew]

Update and new questions:Update - It has been a painfull process. In summary, no one wants the job because there is no money involved. When their ad said "no job is too small," I guess some are. Even with minimum one hr labor. And no one has the guts to tell me straight up. The last guy finally returned my call and said "why don't you do it yourself." So I will. Questions:1. I took the screws out and found out they are dry wall screws. Not wood screws. Does it matter? Looking at another house under construction, the door frame is the frame of the house. All they add was another 2X4 to add strength.2. The difference between wood screws and dry wall screws are that the wood screws have a smooth barrel just behind the head (there is a term for it). The dry wall screws have a more agressive (sharp) thread. Which is better?3. If the developer used the wrong screws, then I have a case to go back to them to ask them to fix it, even if my warranty is over.4. The dry wall screw is 1.5 inches from head to tip. Is that way too short to hold up a front door? How long do you recommend to get? Should I also go wider too? I believe they are "50.8" wide (not sure what they means, since that's what the box of new screws said at Home Depot).TIA

[Herb]

A temporary quick fix you can try is to fill the loose holes with some glue and golf tees, drill a small pilot hole, then drive the screws through that.

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by GoLowDrew »Update and new questions:Update - It has been a painfull process. In summary, no one wants the job because there is no money involved. When their ad said "no job is too small," I guess some are. Even with minimum one hr labor. And no one has the guts to tell me straight up. The last guy finally returned my call and said "why don't you do it yourself." So I will. Questions:1. I took the screws out and found out they are dry wall screws. Not wood screws. Does it matter? Looking at another house under construction, the door frame is the frame of the house. All they add was another 2X4 to add strength.2. The difference between wood screws and dry wall screws are that the wood screws have a smooth barrel just behind the head (there is a term for it). The dry wall screws have a more agressive (sharp) thread. Which is better?3. If the developer used the wrong screws, then I have a case to go back to them to ask them to fix it, even if my warranty is over.4. The dry wall screw is 1.5 inches from head to tip. Is that way too short to hold up a front door? How long do you recommend to get? Should I also go wider too? I believe they are "50.8" wide (not sure what they means, since that's what the box of new screws said at Home Depot).TIAOk, do you have a set-up like this???Red= house frameYellow= door frameGreen= doorGray= space/gapWhere the GRAY would be the gaps.... The first gap would be between the door and actual door frame(what the door moved inside of) The second gap would be between the door frame and the house frame. Ok, 99% of construction looks like this, the door and door frame come as a unit, hinges/knobs installed, pre-fab. Then that UNIT gets put in the framed door opening and squared to the house using shims and then finally attached with nails/screws. If your door opening looks like this then you are golden. You will just need to remove the screws and allow the door frame to move in the opening, then starting with the HINGE side, start with a level and get that side of the door frame level (up and down) once you have that solid, then you can square and level the reast of the door frame TO THE DOOR... The biggest problem I see, is that I can't see it... any chance you could snap a pic and post it? If you can't find anyone to help you, were ARE going to have to fix this, which means you are going to have to either figure it out, or post a pic, so either me or Engineer can see what's going on... Aaron

[Whelan]

Nothing a belt sander couldn't fix.

[GoLowDrew]

Actual pics. Finally. I took one of the screws out. As you can see, the screws already have no grip in them.Hinge is away from the wall when the door is open.Hard to see the text. Right side there is the gap. Left side is tight.Anymore insights? Please reply.

[Sublimewind]

Is that it?? No grip on the screws? Dude, that one is EASY... Go to the hardwear or homedepot, get some 1/4" dowel rod, get a 1/4" drill bit, drill out the screw holes.... now take 1" long portions of the dowel and apply some wood glew to them and instert them into the holes, allow to dry. Now get a 1/8" drill bit and re-drill your pliot holes for the hinge screws and get some 2-3" brass screws (something you should get in the first trip to the harwear as well) and go to town... You should have much more grip on the door frame AND go far enough to screw into the house door frame, making the whole thing stronger...

[GoLowDrew]

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »Is that it?? No grip on the screws? Dude, that one is EASY... Go to the hardwear or homedepot, get some 1/4" dowel rod, get a 1/4" drill bit, drill out the screw holes.... now take 1" long portions of the dowel and apply some wood glew to them and instert them into the holes, allow to dry. Now get a 1/8" drill bit and re-drill your pliot holes for the hinge screws and get some 2-3" brass screws (something you should get in the first trip to the harwear as well) and go to town... You should have much more grip on the door frame AND go far enough to screw into the house door frame, making the whole thing stronger...Yeah, I'm glad you think it's that easy.Questions.- Should I try with just longer screws first?- With your solution above, let me understand this. So now it'll be the glue holding it, instead of the screw? So the strength would be in the glue?

[Sublimewind]

Longer screw just may work.... The glue would be to hold the wooden dowel rod and the glue bond is STRONGER than the wood in most cases... Longer screw just may be the way to go man...

[GoLowDrew]

Last question:I don't have an electric drill screwdriver. Will my arm be enough to drive a screw that is 1" longer? Actually I do have an electric drill, so can I get a screwdriver attachment? Will that be too much torque and risk striping it out?

[Whelan]

Using a longer screw could work but the only issue I see is the screw will not be getting any grip until it is deeper in the hole. So there may be some wobble invovled, as well as the door hinge may pull he screw out again as it is not getting grip on all the threads.

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by GoLowDrew »Last question:I don't have an electric drill screwdriver. Will my arm be enough to drive a screw that is 1" longer? Actually I do have an electric drill, so can I get a screwdriver attachment? Will that be too much torque and risk striping it out? Is your drill corded or cordless? I ask because most times CORDED drills run a LOT faster than cordless ones... It could still be used, you just gotta be more carefull... Quote »Using a longer screw could work but the only issue I see is the screw will not be getting any grip until it is deeper in the hole. So there may be some wobble invovled, as well as the door hinge may pull he screw out again as it is not getting grip on all the threads.The screw will get enough grip to go in straight, so that "shouldn't" be a problem, just start slow, get it part way in and then sink it home... I would go for a 2.5-3" screw if I were you...

[GoLowDrew]

#8 2.5" wood screws did the job for me. It's not "perfect" but it works the way it suppose to. I stripped two screw heads with my cord drill even on low. I think I need a "weak" coorless one. Lucky I was able to get them back out. I replaced all 4 screws on the top hinge.Last few questions on this project. There are 4 screws on each hinge. I was shock to see that two of them are like 3/4 inch long. And the part that touches wood is only 1/4 inch. No wonder they come off. The other two are like 1 1/4 long. I beleive the longer ones are on the inside.1. I assume it would be a good idea to change all of them out even if there is nothing wrong?2. Because they look like nothing is wrong, should I only replace the short 3/4 screws with new 2.5" screws?3. Is there a reason why the short one is on the outside and the longer ones are on the inside of the hinge? Therefore, if I do #2 above, will it mess something up?

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by GoLowDrew »#8 2.5" wood screws did the job for me. It's not "perfect" but it works the way it suppose to. I stripped two screw heads with my cord drill even on low. I think I need a "weak" coorless one. Lucky I was able to get them back out. I replaced all 4 screws on the top hinge.Last few questions on this project. There are 4 screws on each hinge. I was shock to see that two of them are like 3/4 inch long. And the part that touches wood is only 1/4 inch. No wonder they come off. The other two are like 1 1/4 long. I beleive the longer ones are on the inside.1. I assume it would be a good idea to change all of them out even if there is nothing wrong?2. Because they look like nothing is wrong, should I only replace the short 3/4 screws with new 2.5" screws?3. Is there a reason why the short one is on the outside and the longer ones are on the inside of the hinge? Therefore, if I do #2 above, will it mess something up?You would be best of replacing all of the screws, I would start at the top and work down, so you use the top to align everything and then install the rest so things don't get all bent up.... I would guess that the longer screws were used on the inside due to the facr that is where more of the force would start, moot point if you replace them all. Yep, very easy to strip out a brass screw with an electric drill, the speed and torque is just to great... but YOU GOT IT DONE and that is what REALLY counts....