Vibe GT Upgrade?

[dadouglas]

I know I'll lose some money on this but want some opinions about possibly trading up to Vibe GT. Currently satisifed owner of 1 month old Vibe Base (Neptune Monotone). I'm thinking I would like the extra horsepower that comes from the GT even with the gas mileage loss. Also wouldn't mind having Moon and Tunes package along with a non-monotone outside. Few questions.What kind of mileage are you GT owners getting?Is there a noticable difference in the handling/feel with the extra horsepower?Does the sun roof have an internal cover that will shield you from the sun/moon? Does the 200 Watt Premium do a lot for you vice the regular? Thanks in advance

[Triton]

quote:What kind of mileage are you GT owners getting?I get between 24 and 28 miles per gallon and I do all city driving. I have been very happy with the fuel economy. The miles per gallon can be affected by how often you take the motor to the peak horsepower between 6,000 and 8,200 RPM's.quote:Is there a noticable difference in the handling/feel with the extra horsepower?The suspension is exactly the same in the base and GT models which is a good suspension. There is a very noticable difference in horsepower. The advantage the base Vibe has is that it's peak torque is at a lower RPM. You might want to consider getting a supercharger when it is available for the base instead of trading in your car for a GT.quote:Does the sun roof have an internal cover that will shield you from the sun/moon? Does the 200 Watt Premium do a lot for you vice the regular?Like Salsa said, there is an internal cover for the moonroof. And the 200 watt stereo is really nice. I have the added 6 disc in dash changer and I really like having that.If you are worried about loosing money, I would go with adding the supercharger to your base Vibe. But if you are looking to get the moon & tunes package and the GT and money is no object, go for it. I hope these answers help. If you have any other questions about the GT, post another question or you may IM me and I would be happy to answer anything for you.

[QUIKAG]

I agree with Triton, you will lose too much money by trading. So, unless you have a lot of money burning a hole in your pocket, I would recommend waiting for the supercharger and maybe going to an aftermarket stereo. I wanted the sunroof, but instead I got the performance wheels/tires and the 6 disc in-dash changer. I knew I wanted the GT from the start as that was my initial attraction to the car. Getting the Celica GT-S motor and six-speed manual for a relatively paltry sum compared to what Celica GT-S cars go for. Plus, the versatility, four doors, fuel economy, etc. A buddy who has a 2001 M3 took my Vibe for a spin yesterday and he said he loved the sound of the motor with my intake as it screamed from 6000rpm to 8200rpm. It's a very addicting sound.

[Triton]

quote:A buddy who has a 2001 M3 took my Vibe for a spin yesterday and he said he loved the sound of the motor with my intake as it screamed from 6000rpm to 8200rpm. It's a very addicting sound. I know that sound well QUIKAG. I had a chance to drive rasermon's Vibe GT with an Injen intake and fell in love with that sound. As a matter of fact, rasermon, silverawd26 and I are meeting tommorow to install it. I can't wait!

[Kissfan79]

Well....everyone has basically already answered your questions.....but I will add that Iam currently averaging about 31 MPG with my GT. I do mostly highway driving though.Jim

[Cubanpete]

You can always add the SuperCharger to your motor without having to loose money and trade it for a GT, THE HP with the SuperCharger will be practically identical to the GT...so this is one of the best moves to do.

[QUIKAG]

quote:I know that sound well QUIKAG. I had a chance to drive rasermon's Vibe GT with an Injen intake and fell in love with that sound. As a matter of fact, rasermon, silverawd26 and I are meeting tommorow to install it. I can't wait! The sound is very intoxicating. I've been in S2000's, Prelude VTEC's, a lot of 4 cylinder cars that sound good, but I would say that overall aural quality is right up there with the best 4 cylinders around, very nice ripping/honking sound once that big cam kicks in. I love it!! Congrats on your new intake, Triton GT. It's the best mod, bar none. Quiet cruising around, but go full-throttle 'whoa baby!!'

[mfreed]

Actually a base vibe /w the SC will blow away any vibe GT. Only 5 less HP and a much broader usable torque and HP curve.What's the price on the SC gunna be?

[PBFlash]

I don't know if the base with the supercharger will blow away the GT but it may be a pretty close race. Regardless, a base with a supercharger could never answer this question YES.Got Lift?

[Kevy Kev]

Lift..ya babay!

[Kissfan79]

Nice response! There is no feeling like a nice sunny day........sunroof open.....KISS cranked to the max......You slam the pedal to the floor in second and take off.......you hit 6200.....lift kicks in and BAM your car surges ahead and you start to FLY! Jim

[Kissfan79]

"Got Lift?"......Cool idea for a vanity plate! Or maybe a bumper sticker!Jim

[NovaResource]

quote:Regardless, a base with a supercharger could never answer this question YES. Got Lift?Who need lift when you have boost!Got Boost?OK, we don't yet but we'll have boost throught the whole rpm range (1000-rpm to 6400-rpm) instead of lift just above 6200-rpm (to 8200-rpm).

[QUIKAG]

quote:Regardless, a base with a supercharger could never answer this question YES. Got Lift?Who need lift when you have boost!Got Boost?OK, we don't yet but we'll have boost throught the whole rpm range (1000-rpm to 6400-rpm) instead of lift just above 6200-rpm (to 8200-rpm).Nova, you should know better than to say that a broader torque curve is a big deal in racing. It is fairly irrelevant except for first gear. Once a GT is in it's powerband, then it should stay on the big cam for the remainder of the race.All said, I'd like to see a race against a Vibe GT with/without a CAI/exhaust and a base Vibe with the blower. Should be interesting. From a dig, I would give the nod to the base with SC, from a roll on the highway, I would think the GT might have the advantage as the car breathes very well on the big end. Also, don't forget the steeper gearing of the Gt.

[NovaResource]

quote:Nova, you should know better than to say that a broader torque curve is a big deal in racing. It is fairly irrelevant except for first gear. Once a GT is in it's powerband, then it should stay on the big cam for the remainder of the race.Not true at all! Torque is everything when it comes to acceleration. Plus, the base/SC will have boost all the time. The GT drops out of "lift" when you shift into the next gear.quote:Also, don't forget the steeper gearing of the Gt.I didn't forget. The lower final gear of the base will help it's top end charge. More MPH per RPM. The steeper gears of the GT will helps it's initial acceleration but hurts it's top speed.

[Triton]

quote:The GT drops out of "lift" when you shift into the next gear.I have noticed that when you shift from 1st to 2nd that you only drop out of lift by a few hundred RPMs, but from 2nd to 3rd you are actually still in lift if you take it to just before the rev limiter. It is really cool having the lift. The supercharger will be a very nice addition to the base Vibe. I would be very interested to test drive a base with a supercharger sometime.

[MadBill]

I agree with Nova (Wow! Some weird kinda trend emerging here! )re the advantage of torque. Beyond a red line run up through the gears, there's a ton of times that you just want to floor it and go. Even in my base Vibe, I often find for example when I'm headed up an on ramp in third, I have to drop back to second to get up to 120 (75) fast enough to merge into a spot. The supercharger should help a bunch in real word driving. My wife's V-6 Park Avenue is the superchaged Ultra model (with a K & N filter and undersized pulley) and the torque is better than most V-8s. It really gets this land yacht up to speed in a hurry. "It's great to be injected, but I'd rather be blown!"BTW, is there a slightly kinder, gentler NovaResource emerging? I see the same incisive knowledge and refusal to let misinformation stand as fact, but when the knife does come out, it seems more often now to be a scalpel rather than a fire axe.

[BrentDev]

Anyone know when they come out with the s/c already installed, is it going to be dubbed something else? i.e. GT1, or Vibe SC, or what?Or is the plan merely to have the dealers install them all (I am hypotetesizing --- mispelled I know) about a 2004 model.But I got a GT.

[QUIKAG]

quote:Not true at all! Torque is everything when it comes to acceleration. Plus, the base/SC will have boost all the time. The GT drops out of "lift" when you shift into the next gear.I didn't forget. The lower final gear of the base will help it's top end charge. More MPH per RPM. The steeper gears of the GT will helps it's initial acceleration but hurts it's top speed.The only time the GT drops out of lift for a second or so is on the 1-2 shift. From then on, a proficient driver should be able to stay on the big cam for the remainder of the race. The base with SC will have a torque advantage throughout, but not necessarily enough to decisively win a race against a GT.Concerning the steeper final drive gear of the GT, that helps in all gears including 5th and 6th gear. The GT will maintain a gearing advantage all else being equal. Neither car has the aerodynamics or horsepower necessary to wind out top gear. If you get more mph per rpm, then you have less leverage. Yeah, you might be able to get more mph in one particular gear, but it's going to take you longer to wind that gear out. Going from the stock 3.42 gear in my C5 to the 4.10 gears makes that point obvious. Of course, the 4.10 gears shorten top end in each gear, but I wind through the gears MUCH harder and faster.

[Ryan]

Upgrading a base Vibe with a SC will run you about 4k no?. About the same price as a GT... Let's just say that a base Vibe with a SC is .2 seconds faster than a GT. You still don't have ABS breaks (2000$), the power package (1000$ to get the doors retrofitted and the windows), 1000$ for a sunroof. You loose the waranty if you instal a SC. Lets not forget the stereo too 1000$. Well you'd have the extra HP you want but not the rest... Sell your car privately, you will get more money for it that way.Ray

[NovaResource]

quote:Upgrading a base Vibe with a SC will run you about 4k no?.No. Pontiac claims under $3,000 installed.quote:Let's just say that a base Vibe with a SC is .2 seconds faster than a GT. You still don't have ABS breaks (2000$),Incorrect, ABS is available on the base.quote:the power package (1000$ to get the doors retrofitted and the windows),Incorrect. The power package is available on the base.quote:1000$ for a sunroof.Incorrect. The sunroof is available on the base.quote:You loose the waranty if you instal a SC.Incorrect. If the dealer installs the S/C is is covered under a 2-year waranty (1-year if it's owner installed)quote:Lets not forget the stereo too 1000$.Also incorrect. The stereo is available on the base.quote:Well you'd have the extra HP you want but not the rest...Better go back and check your facts. You are incorrect on most of them.

[philndz]

Nova, you are completely correct in saying that all that gear is available on the base model.....but if you go back and read the very first post on this thread you will see that we are talking about the pros/cons of installing a SC / buying a GT. the car in question here is a base vibe WITHOUT the moon&tunes etc........they dont say whether or not he has the power package, abs, etc...

[PBFlash]

quote:The only time the GT drops out of lift for a second or so is on the 1-2 shift.Not true. I can keep it in lift from 1st to 2nd most of the time. Just have to be quick on the shift and get back on the gas as soon as you drop the clutch. From then on it's easy to keep it in lift from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. Never kept it in lift into 5th. Was going plenty fast when I got into 4th. I am hopefully installing an Injen CAI this weekend and can't wait to feel the difference.

[Cubanpete]

Scott.......From my understanding I think what that user means is that the same standard items that are available on the GT model, if you add them as upgrades to your base vibe along with the SC, then it will cost you alot more then the GT, which he is correct, I calculated a base with all the options that came with my car including alarm and 17 inch wheels options...the difference was 1400-1500 plus tax....that is why I came to the conclussion the GT with a higher performance motor and all the extras as std equipment was a better deal, plus no wait time as the others.

[NovaResource]

quote:From my understanding I think what that user means is that the same standard items that are available on the GT model, if you add them as upgrades to your base vibe along with the SC, then it will cost you alot more then the GT, which he is correct, I calculated a base with all the options that came with my car including alarm and 17 inch wheels options...the difference was 1400-1500 plus tax....that is why I came to the conclussion the GT with a higher performance motor and all the extras as std equipment was a better deal, plus no wait time as the others.From the Pontiac Vibe webpage:base Vibe: - Power Group Value Package: $1,025.00 (-$400.00 discount) - Wheels, 16" cast aluminum: $440.00 - ABS Brakes, front disc/rear drum: $500.00 - Transmission, 5-speed manual: $0.00 MSRP: $18,610.00 Vibe GT: - Power Group Value Package: $1,025.00 (-$400.00 discount) - Wheels, 16" cast aluminum $0.00 - ABS Brakes, front disc/dics drum: $0.00 - Transmission, 6-speed manual: $0.00 MSRP: $20,620.00 That's a difference of $2,010.00Estimated pricing of the supercharger is under $3,000 installed (2,000 owner installed).So a base w/SC is approx $990 more than a GT. The GT has rear discs, an extra gear and leather wheel and shift knob but the base w/SC has a ton more torque. Well worth it in my opinion. If you install the SC yourself, it's slightly less.

[Cubanpete]

Scott....I was talking Canadian dollars, so The margines and mark ups are quite bigger.

[NovaResource]

quote:But does everyone feel confident enough to install it themselves and void warranty? That is probobly where the concern is....Installing it yourself does not void the warranty. The warranty is 2-years dealer installed, 1-year user installed.

[Cubanpete]

2003 Pontiac Vibe4dr Wgn FWDThe vehicle you select below may be different. MSRP Base Price-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $20,835.00-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Options-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $3,905.00-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Destination & Tax-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $945.00-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vehicle Total-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $25,685.00-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Selected Optional Equipment Code Description MSRP FEDERAL AIR CONDITIONING EXCISE TAX $100.00 LV6 1.8L DOHC 4-CYL VVT-I ENGINE $0.00 MM5 5-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION $0.00 SELECT-A-UNIT (SAU) 1 (REQ: 1SA Preferred Equipment Group) $0.00 1SA PREFERRED EQUIPMENT GROUP $0.00 P205/55R16 ALL-SEASON SBR BSW TIRES $0.00 RECLINING BUCKET SEATS $0.00 __C CLOTH SEAT TRIM $0.00 SOLID PAINT $0.00 ETR AM/FM STEREO W/COMPACT DISC $0.00 QD2 16" ALUMINUM WHEELS $570.00 Z05 PWR PKG $1,420.00 R6E SAFETY & SECURITY PKG $1,135.00 UZ6 PREMIUM (6) SPEAKER SYSTEM W/AMPLIFIER $285.00 UA6 SECURITY SYSTEM $425.00 ***************************************************2003 Pontiac Vibe4dr Wgn FWD GTThe vehicle you select below may be different. MSRP Base Price-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $26,825.00-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Options-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $995.00-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Destination & Tax-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $945.00-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vehicle Total-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $28,765.00-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Selected Optional Equipment Code Description MSRP FEDERAL AIR CONDITIONING EXCISE TAX $100.00 LNK 1.8L DOHC 4-CYL VVTL-I ENGINE $0.00 MN6 6-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION $0.00 SELECT-A-UNIT (SAU) 3 (REQ: 1SA Preferred Equipment Group) $0.00 1SA PREFERRED EQUIPMENT GROUP $0.00 P205/55R16 ALL-SEASON SBR BSW TIRES $0.00 RECLINING BUCKET SEATS $0.00 __C CLOTH SEAT TRIM $0.00 SOLID PAINT $0.00 ETR AM/FM STEREO W/COMPACT DISC $0.00 P24 17" ALUMINUM WHEELS $570.00 UA6 SECURITY SYSTEM $425.00 ********************************************************Scott these are the 2 original figures I used during the purchase, I however managed to get a great deal at that time, from the dealerwith mudflaps installed front and back for free.........total with all preps and charges at 27,500 for the vehicle, there were no promotions or discounts available in Canada at the time.........thats how I did my math and figured it was time to move quick on it! Going base with all the stuff listed and a 130 HP motor was not a great deal at the time!

[Project Shadow]

When you are talking about the GT staying in the torque band, that is 130ftlb. period, end of dicussion (a bit more with CAI...). If the base/SC has any where near the claims of torque (170ish) and its laced across the whole range, I can't see any reason the GT would have a chance. I'll likely never get the S/C so all I can do is dream about "what if" while the GT's continue to beat me. But the physics are pretty simple torque=acceleration, not Horsepower. I'm sure the GT's will find many an upgrade anyway and the battle will be won by $.

[Project Shadow]

quote:Upgrading a base Vibe with a SC will run you about 4k no?. About the same price as a GT... Let's just say that a base Vibe with a SC is .2 seconds faster than a GT. You still don't have ABS breaks (2000$), the power package (1000$ to get the doors retrofitted and the windows), 1000$ for a sunroof. You loose the waranty if you instal a SC. Lets not forget the stereo too 1000$. Well you'd have the extra HP you want but not the rest... Sell your car privately, you will get more money for it that way.RayIn Canada the GT will all the same options (except 4 wheel disc on GT) as the base vibe is about $3500.00 more. So, 99% of the same options plus S/C will be nearly identical cost. So actaully you would have the extra HP and the rest as well as way more torque and I am positive, alot more than .2sec. advantage.

[Keely]

quote:"Got Lift?"......I know this little reply is getting injected in the thread a little late, but just as an aside....I fully own up to being a car ignoramus. "Engines for Dummies" would be over my head. If it doesn't have an OS, I confess to having no clue as to how it works. That's why I'm a member here - trying to learn everything I can about my car without breaking the french manicure. This is my first manual tranmission car. I recently started really letting my Vibe out, working on red-lining (Scott - I took that whole "carbon burning" advice very seriously), shifting quickly and all that stuff. A girlfriend asked me a few weeks ago what it felt like to rev it that high, and I told her: "It's amazing - you get to around 6,400 RPM, and it's like something just lifts the car off the road and it jets forward like it's in midair...."The point being: even for a car newbie, Got Lift? means a lot to me. I thought it was pretty cool that it's the term you car smarties use. Back to your regularly-scheduled programming....

[NovaResource]

The "Lift" actually has to do with the valves.I'm going to get basic here since I don't know what you already know so don't be offended if I explain something you already know.Our engines are called 4-stroke engines. That means that each piston goes through 4 cycles or strokes: - First is intake. The exhaust valve closes and the intake valve opens to allow in air and fuel. The piston is going down and pulling in the fuel mixture. - Second is compression. This is when the intake valve closes and the piston is coming back up. This compresses the air and fuel. - Third is power (or combustion). The spark plug fires and the fuel ignites. This explosion forces the piston down and is where the power is actually created. - Forth is exhaust. The piston comes back up and the exhaust valve opens to let out the burnt fuel.As you can see, each piston only makes power once every other revolution.Now, the cam (or cams) is what opens the valves. A cam is basically an essentric that opens the valves. Cams are rated in "lift" and "duration" as well as timing. Lift is how far the valve opens. Duration is how long the valve is open and timing is when the valve opens.The "VVT" stands for Variable Valve Timing. This is the computer advaning or ratarding the cam timing to make more power. Retading the cam timing (opening the valve late) creates torque and better emissions. Advancing the cam timing (opening the valves earlier) creates more power. Most engines don't change the cam timing but VVT does. So, for both the 1ZZ and 2ZZ the computer advances the timing around 3000 rpm. That's the first power increase you feel.VVTL is Variable Valve Timing and Lift. This 2ZZ only option not only varies the timing but also the lift. Around 6200-rpm the computer open oil lines that activate higher lift cam lobes. This means the valves now open more allowing even more fuel and air in creating even more power.So when people say "Lift" they are talking about the engine opening the valves more to create more power.

[Keely]

Hmmm. I liked my explanation better. Just kidding. Thank you, that was very informative. I knew VVTL was some process that generated more power at higher RPM, but I sure didn't know how that was accomplished. I thought that it had to do with whether two or four pistons were firing at the same time - or is that the VVT part of VVTL?No, no, I just have to read Scott's post a few more times to digest it.And sorry everyone - I just saw this thread: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=3425 which also talks about the basics of the VVTL engine operation. My bad.

[millster]

Actually the VVT part is variable "valve timing", or the opening of the valves in relation to the piston's position. All four pistons couldn't fire at the same time. Think of the pistons in the engine looking like a W (that would be five pistons, but you get the idea). When 1 and 3 come to the top to fire, 2 and 4 are at the bottom of their stroke. All four firing at the same time would result in a catastrophic failure.

[dadouglas]

I'm back. I was the original poster so thought I'd update.Was looking at the GT not only from the engine different but also the other things that I don't currently have on my Vibe, Moon and Tunes, larger wheels, ABS etc. All in all I might still eat the money and trade however I couldn't get a response from my Pontiac dealer. I had actually called them and mentioned about what I thought about doing. They were going to check around and get back. Never heard anything. Again, this is not something I have to do I just was curious about doing it. That's why I haven't pursued. Anyway I'll keep you posted.Neptune Vibe Base with plenty of 80s College Music a playing..

[QUIKAG]

I can't believe this thread is still alive. I think we all like our cars for our own respective reasons. I like the GT personally because I love hearing the engine scream to the 8350rpm fuel cutoff. The cold air intake really lets the great sounds come out of the motor while on the big cams.Concerning speed and quickness when comparing the base with S/C and the GT, I've decided it's irrelevant. I bought my Vibe as a daily driver to commute to and from work, basically rack the miles up on and enjoy the car for what it is. If any of you guys want to race, I'll just pull out the Corvette.

[MadBill]

Has somebody got the link to that "How stuff works" site? It would serve well here.

[PBFlash]

I believe it is: http://howstuffworks.com