automatic headlights not working all of the time

[Puckman27]

the past week or two my auto headlights will randomly decide to not work when i start the car at night. normally after the parking brake is released the DRL's come on, but even those won't light up at first. last night i had to manually flip the lights on twice... the first time the fog lights came on right away, the headlights followed about 20 seconds later........ any ideas what could be causing this...... its annoying!

[Baltovibe]

There is a TSB available for your problem, obtained from http://www.safercar.gov :Make : PONTIAC Model : VIBE Year : 2003Manufacturer : GENERAL MOTORS CORP. Service Bulletin Num : 611 Date of Bulletin: NOV 01, 2004NHTSA Item Number: 10016257 Component: EXTERIOR LIGHTING:HEADLIGHTSSummary:AUTOMATIC HEADLAMP-OWNERS MAY COMMENT THAT THE AUTOMATIC HEADLAMP SYSTEM DOES NOT TURN THE HEADLAMPS ON WHEN THE VEHICLE IS STARTED DURING LOW LIGHT CONDITIONS. *SC

[joatmon]

I can't find an actual TSB for that, and 611 is not a typical GM TSB number, but the NHTSA site does say there is one, but doesn't offer what the fix is. A TSB is not a recall, and an 03 GT is probably out of warranty. I remember a thread here somewhere, the 03 DRL module behaves differently than later years (or is it 03/04 different from 05+?) , maybe the TSB is related to that. Still, the headlight switch feeds the DRL module, and the DRL module decides when the headlights hsould be on, so my first guess would be that when you see erratic behavior like that, perhaps the DRL module is acting up. Could also be a loose connection somewhere, or maybe a sticky headlight relay, can't really say definitively.

[Whelan]

I bypassed that when I disconnected the DRL on my Trix and set it up to run fog/parking lamp w/o the headlight having to be on.I hated the automatic lamp, it was way to sensitive on this car and needed an adjustment knob like most other systems. Or to be placed in the center of the dash by the windshield and not off to the side where the A-pillar shadow can pop them on. I also don't see ever being so lazy as to not turn a dial.

[Puckman27]

its nothing about being lazy, its just habit now.... i've gotten so used to not even thinking about turning the headlights on, both cars i've had in my short life have both had automatic lights... and like i read in another post, i don't get why they aren't a standard thing on every car nowadaysthanks for the notices about the TSB though guys... how do those work at the dealer when your warranty is over by the way

[Puckman27]

ok, things just got worsegot the clutch replaced, which meant that the battery was disconnected. As i said in this post months ago, the low-beams didn't want to come on all of the time. Well, now they won't come on at all. I just replaced the bulbs, the 30amp headlight fuse and two 15amp headlight fuses in the engine bay, and the DRL 10amp fuse in the interior fuse box. The hi-beams work when told to, the parking lights all work, the fog lights work, taillights work, but the headlights don't. There are two relays in the engine bay fuse box that Autozone didn't carry. Could those be the problem? or would you say i should get to the dealer about the automatic sensors? Whats the point of the manual switch for the headlights if the headlights still won't come on?!?!

[ColonelPanic]

Do the DRL's even come on now? Those are reduced intensity low beams IIRC so that would at least let you know the bulbs and associated wiring were ok.Maybe the DRL module has freaked out... Since all that stuff for the lights run through there, that'd be my first guess. Haven't a clue how to troubleshoot it.If the automatic light system itself stopped working, I would think you'd still have your DRL's on at all times, dark or light and you could still turn on the headlights using the switch. (That's how it works when the sensor is disconnected.)

[joatmon]

Here is a wiring diagram, and some thinking out loudLooks like on page 2 of the PDF, the DRL module controls when the HEAD relay closes, and this should turn on either DRLs or low beams. IT also provides power for the DIMMER relay, the DIMMER relay provides power for the high beams. Since you have high beams working, then I'd say the HEAD and DIMMER relays are fine.The DRL module controls whether you have DRLs or normal low beams by controlling the negative side of the headlight bulbs, for low beams, it gives a good ground, for DRLs, if gives some level above ground (I never measured it) When the high beams are on, it floats this line to either an open or 12V so that the low beams go off when the high beams are on. I think that there are only two options for what could be causing the problem, either a bad DRL relay, or some bad connection somewhere. Assuming you haven't been in there pulling on or cutting wires, I'd be inclined to think it was the DRL module. I doubt it is cheap to buy a new one, and a bitter cost if you buy one and it still doesn't fix the problem. Maybe try a junkyard for a used one.

Attached files 017hl.pdf (59.5 KB) 

[Puckman27]

Nope, DRL's and low-beams don't work, but everything else does. However, none of the lights come on automatically now.

[Puckman27]

Thanks for the research Joatmon. Do you think that module is something i would be able to easily replace (like unplug/connect the bad and plug-in the new)? or is the dealer's assistance required for something like that?

[joatmon]

technically, it should be really straightforward. Realisticly, it is not the easiest thing to get to, I suggest looking through the numerous DRL disable threads and see what people said about reaching that module. For me, I found it easiest to remove the instrument cluster and reach in from the top, others reach up from the bottomI don't have the time tonight to look here for pictures of what it looks like and where it is, but I know there are some good pics of it here somewhere

[Puckman27]

anybody know of a place online that I can order the DRL relay? these kind of parts are really hard to find!

[kevera]

From what I remember,the relay won't fix your problem.I was just talking to a buddy of mine,who works for Toyota.He told me to tell you to remove the drivers side kick panel,and check for a broken ground in that area.Check that first.