Get a Vibe witout ABS??

[Nutella]

(thought I'd post here in the correct forum re: ABS)I'm restricting myself on looking for a used Vibe only with ABS. I'm near Toronto so we get the snow. But also a fair bit of rainy wet days. This seems rare. I don't know if I should forget about the ABS. I just think it will help in slippery situations and prefer not to do without it.How about the ABS? For those without it, are there situations where you guys feel it would've been safer with ABS? Better braking response for panic stops or swerve manoeuvers? Does the ABS suck in the Vibe? I know it does in my Protege5 -it's WAAAY too sensitive and kicks easily on light snow - too slow making stopping distance too much. But its superior for rain.

[kevera]

Hey Nutella,I live in T.O,and I don't have ABS.I like the Vibe without it,so with a decent set of tires you should be fine.

[feelin'thevibe]

Quote, originally posted by kevera »Hey Nutella,I live in T.O,and I don't have ABS.I like the Vibe without it,so with a decent set of tires you should be fine.+1 that is my experence with mine.

[bull77]

Living in Ottawa with no ABS - my brakes and tires are doing their job perfectly

[Mavrik]

no ABS on my Vibe. I drove it for 2003/2004 winter in Ontario and then beginning of winter 2004/2005. I then drove the car to Alaska where I live now and have driven it through 2005/2006 winter and now 2006/2007 winter with NO issues or nead for ABS to this point. Never once have I wished I had it.

[AKLGT]

i don't think you'll need it. however, on my current vehicle, i have become very familar with my ABS. but i think that's just from my driving, not the car. LOL

[AZViking]

I've never driven a car with ABS. We haven't had any problems with our non-ABS Vibe, yet.

[ragingfish]

If you're used to ABS, I would NOT recommend getting a car without it. You become accustomed to driving with it, and in panic stops, you respond accordingly. If you never had it, then you have no problem going either way.

[Viberrrr]

Some of the later models have sabilaztion control. I wish I had found a used Vibe with this. Much more valuable to me than ABS any day. Or better yet both.

[Vibe_dude]

as a fact i know abs does not work good in snow or rain.......it is meant for dry roads.....i am so glad that my 98 accord and my 03 vibe do not have abs.

[Nutella]

^^ not true for Rain. ABS works ok for rain over no-abs. For snow it starts getting worse

[Mavrik]

Well people are relying to much on ABS these days. Its a HUGE misconception that ABS helps you stop. It doesn't at all. Its only to help you maintain control, prevent brake lock up and allow you to steer while braking. I get calls all the time asking me why with the ABS on, they still hit the car in front of them. I reply (politely of course) with "how come you didn't steer around when ABS allows you to do that?" (not my exact words but you get the point)

[Nutella]

yeah you're right. But I'd rather have that ability to steer away while hard braking than not have it.But then ofcourse it comes down to the driver's reaction and ability to actually DO the swerve. I'm going to assume most of the average Joes can't make use of it beneficially.

[Mavrik]

Quote, originally posted by Nutella »yeah you're right. But I'd rather have that ability to steer away while hard braking than not have it.But then ofcourse it comes down to the driver's reaction and ability to actually DO the swerve. I'm going to assume most of the average Joes can't make use of it beneficially.Take some autocross courses. I think it should be law.

[ajflan]

I don't have abs, and I'm fine in the winter. I kind of like being in full control.

[mikey00]

I am now on my 5th car with ABS. Before ABS came out I owned at least 10 non-ABS cars. I will never ever get another car without ABS. And for those who listed steering and StabilTrac (Vehicle Skid Control, VSC in the Toyota world) as being more important. One of the main purposes of ABS is so you don't skid and can steer during a stop where you normally would skid. My Vibe has ABS, StabilTrac and traction control.

[Mavrik]

Quote, originally posted by mikey00 » One of the main purposes of ABS is so you don't skid and can steer during a stop where you normally would skid.that often amounts to longer stopping distance.

[mikey00]

It can on a certain surface, but 99% of the time you will have shorter stopping distance plus better control during stops. You will be hard pressed to find anything negative from automotive experts on ABS, just lots of comments from those that don't have them thinking they don't need them. As far as StabilTrak goes looks like the goverment is going to make it mandatory.http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070405...?.v=7

[AKLGT]

Quote, originally posted by Nutella »yeah you're right. But I'd rather have that ability to steer away while hard braking than not have it.But then ofcourse it comes down to the driver's reaction and ability to actually DO the swerve. I'm going to assume most of the average Joes can't make use of it beneficially.i have ABS on my current vehicle. in a skid on ice last winter, i skid straight line right into the back of a truck. i could not get the car to turn. i had plenty of room and no one in the lane next to me, but by the time the ABS was finished pumping the damn brakes, i started to get into the other lane, but couldn't avoid it entirely. if i didn't have ABS pumping those brakes and forcing me straight, would i have hit the truck? i don't know, but my guess is probably not. ABS is both good and bad, just depends on what you prefer and what you want. if you think you can't live without it then that's your choice. however, i don't believe it's really a huge deal where you're at. trust me, we get a lot more winter, ice, and snow.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »i have ABS on my current vehicle. in a skid on ice last winter, i skid straight line right into the back of a truck. i could not get the car to turn. i had plenty of room and no one in the lane next to me, but by the time the ABS was finished pumping the damn brakes, i started to get into the other lane, but couldn't avoid it entirely. if i didn't have ABS pumping those brakes and forcing me straight, would i have hit the truck? i don't know, but my guess is probably not.This doesn't sound right if the ABS was working at all correctly. Have you tried deliberately hitting the brakes hard somewhere safe, like an empty parking lot, and seeing how it affects the steering? If the brakes are being rapidly pumped by the ABS system you can still turn the front wheels and they'll steer the car as they gain traction between the pumps. Without ABS you'd need to let up off the brakes in order to regain steering control and you still have the option to do that with ABS so I don't understand the "forcing me straight" comment.I noted many comments above about not having needed ABS and agree with them in part. In over 40 years of driving I have also never had a situation where ABS would have provided any advantage. I can make the same statement about seatbelts, airbags, side impact guards, collapsing steering columns, and most of the other safety features built into our cars. BUT, I still want all of these features present in the cars I drive while hoping they remain as useless to me for the next 40 years as they have for the previous 40.I don't think the ABS in my cars has ever been activated during normal driving, but I have done some tests with it in empty parking lots under dry, wet, and snowy conditions. It did let me retain better steering control under hard braking which is the main benefit. Yes, there are a few situations where stopping distances are increased, e.g. when driving on loose surfaces like soft dirt, mud, and fresh snow where locking the wheels acts to build up a wall of material in front of the tires. OTOH, stopping distances can be shorter in situations where the traction differs between tires. E.g. if the curb-side tires are on a slippery surface while the left tires are on better pavement then a good ABS system can get the best stopping power by applying more braking to the left wheels and letting up the pressure on the right ones whenever they start to slip. A driver without ABS has no such ability (despite the claim of wanting "full control").

[mikey00]

There will always be that one instance when ABS will not work as well as non-ABS. But the same logic can be applied to seat belts. Why use them if someone can tell you about that one instance when you would have been better off without them. I know I will never own another car without ABS.

[Mavrik]

I know when I autocross... ABS can be a pain and a blessing. I was hard on the brakes into a corner at the end of a slalam and was able to turn. That was on Hope's LGT so we'll see how I do in the new STi of mine as ABS is standard on it. I'll have to get used to braking again lol

[AKLGT]

Quote, originally posted by prathman »This doesn't sound right if the ABS was working at all correctly. Have you tried deliberately hitting the brakes hard somewhere safe, like an empty parking lot, and seeing how it affects the steering? If the brakes are being rapidly pumped by the ABS system you can still turn the front wheels and they'll steer the car as they gain traction between the pumps. Without ABS you'd need to let up off the brakes in order to regain steering control and you still have the option to do that with ABS so I don't understand the "forcing me straight" comment.I noted many comments above about not having needed ABS and agree with them in part. In over 40 years of driving I have also never had a situation where ABS would have provided any advantage. I can make the same statement about seatbelts, airbags, side impact guards, collapsing steering columns, and most of the other safety features built into our cars. BUT, I still want all of these features present in the cars I drive while hoping they remain as useless to me for the next 40 years as they have for the previous 40.I don't think the ABS in my cars has ever been activated during normal driving, but I have done some tests with it in empty parking lots under dry, wet, and snowy conditions. It did let me retain better steering control under hard braking which is the main benefit. Yes, there are a few situations where stopping distances are increased, e.g. when driving on loose surfaces like soft dirt, mud, and fresh snow where locking the wheels acts to build up a wall of material in front of the tires. OTOH, stopping distances can be shorter in situations where the traction differs between tires. E.g. if the curb-side tires are on a slippery surface while the left tires are on better pavement then a good ABS system can get the best stopping power by applying more braking to the left wheels and letting up the pressure on the right ones whenever they start to slip. A driver without ABS has no such ability (despite the claim of wanting "full control").you have never ridden with me. i brake. HARD. LOL. and that is putting it lightly. i haven't really needed the ABS too often, however, there are times it does come in handy. when i do want to turn and not have the brakes pumping, though, it's a real PITA. there's no way to turn the feature off.

[prathman]

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »i brake. HARD. LOL. and that is putting it lightly. i haven't really needed the ABS too often, however, there are times it does come in handy. when i do want to turn and not have the brakes pumping, though, it's a real PITA.The part I find surprising is the claim that having the ABS kick in makes it *harder* to initiate a turn since that's the exact opposite of what I've found when deliberately testing the feature. When braking hard enough to lock up the front wheels without ABS I've found the steering to be ineffective and I need to back off of the brakes to regain control. With the ABS enabled I can just stand on the brakes and still steer. BTW, it's generally possible to turn off the feature by pulling the right fuse(s) although I haven't done that in the Vibe and don't suggest it except for testing under safe and controlled circumstances.I suspect that when you had your encounter with the truck you may have been on a slick enough surface to make effective steering impossible in any event until it was too late.

[mangophreek]

I just got a Vibe mid-March. You know like 3 weeks ago when we got that random storm they called for, never showed up and then out of nowhere it was hailing all over Toronto? Well this being my first car I was looking for cheap so no ABS. But I wasn't really thinking, and my parents always had ABS in their cars, so I slammed on the brakes, hit black ice and a four car pileup later... I have a new Vibe, this time with ABS! Yay insurance? They didn't have anything with ABS on the lot so I had to wait a few days and get one in from out of town but it wasn't a big deal, just talk to your dealer.

[azsapphire87]

I've found that ABS does help - - to avoid a collision.In my personal testing with road cones and an empty parking lot, ABS helps to get you out of the way quicker and easier than a car without the feature. Most individuals are generally found to have some certain level of intelligence. People, as a whole, are dumb, dangerous and sometimes deadly. ABS was developed mainly so people could brake more effectively while concentrating on steering out of the way. If people had to concentrate on pumping the brakes to prevent wheel lock-up, they most likely would not be able to focus on steering and controlling the vehicle as well.I wish I had ABS, because I have tried to pass a fellow driver out on an open Arizona highway, with a truck about 2000 feet away, coming the other direction. I could have made it with plenty of distance to spare, but the jerk I was passing decided to finally accelerate, not only to the speed limit, but to match me going 10 over (85/75). I was on a highway to hell with the front of a MACK about 500 feet away going an estimated combined speed of about 160mph when I realized the idiot was keeping speed with me. So I panic braked to let him stay in front of me. I didn't have much experience braking without ABS, so my wheels started to lock up (I couldn't steer back into my lane) and there was about 50-100 feet left between me and this truck by the time I let off the brakes and swerved back into my lane. Bottom line - ABS saves lives, not because it helps you stop quicker, but because it can get you out of the way of a fatal collision (with another vehicle or otherwise).If you want to brake quicker and shorter, get a good set of tires with a decent tread, inflate them properly (double check after loading up your vibe), check your brake pads, and make sure your struts are in decent working condition.Tires help you grip the road.ABS helps you get out of the way.Brakes help you stop.Struts help you stop faster.