Threw 6 CEL Codes and I need help!

[04 VIBE gurl]

Hey guys! . . . Im new to the whole forum scene, but my boyfriend told me to come on here and find out whats up with my Vibe.My info: 2004 Pontiac Vibe The codes I threw are:P0446-malfunc in electrical circuit for vent control in evap emission control systemP0442-leak in evap emission control systemP0300-random mult misfiresP0304-misfire cylinder 4P0301-misfire cylinder 1I have no idea why this happened. My boyfriend seafoamed my car a couple weeks ago, but this CEL has been coming on for months. And I've always had a problem with hard start or just a crunching noise at start up when the motor is cold.Any help is appreciated guys!

[nygiantzz1]

Welcome to Genvibe! I would try changing the spark plugs first, beyond that, it sounds like you may need to take it to repair shop for further diagnosis. How many miles on your Vibe? there may be some warranty coverage left if emission components are the problem.

[Mavrik]

Ok first thing you may want to check is if there is anything knocked loose under the read of the vehicle. those first two evap codes can be set for wiring in evap system loose and or a hose knocked off. Its possible when he washed the car, he maybe knocked those off or loose.As for the missfire codes... setting #1 and #4... I would also suggest checking and making sure nothing is knocked loose under the hood. Possibly even moisture got in there during the wash and causing the codes to set. Have you cleared the information and seen if it comes back?

[2002sportside]

Has this car ever been in an accident? The evap circuits are in the rear of the vehicle, very easily damaged in a collision. Check for obvious signs of a problem... wiring, hoses, etc.

[ColonelPanic]

This isn't you, is it??Even if it wasn't, when you dump that stuff in the engine, it isn't going to run particularly smooth. With the way the car was running, I could see it throwing misfire codes.I would get the codes cleared and drive it for a while to see which ones come back. If the seafoam is to blame for the misfires, only the EVAP issues should crop back up...

[04 VIBE gurl]

Yep thats my baby. Its got 35kmiles on it. And seafoaming is supposed to clean injectors and whatnot. It was dealer recommended. Seafoam has nothing to do with thats wrong I can assure you of that.I was in a horrible rear end collision not to long ago actually. Could that be cause of some of the evap codes?I have the extended warranty on my car but they can never figure out whats wrong. So I am asking everyone here with experience.Are the plugs under warranty? I think they would because if there was a misfire, that would be covered.

[kevera]

Where did they do the work for the accident.I would bring it back to them and tell them the problems your having.The dealer may ask you to do that or deny coverage if they know about the accident.And,the plugs are not covered by warranty.But,I would take care of this soon.

[2002sportside]

The rear end collision could definitely be the cause of at least the EVAP codes. We used a smoke machine to find a crack in the system on a '98 Corolla that had been in a rear collision. If the dealer can't find the cause of a EVAP code they're not trying hard enough...Have you tried clearing the codes? The Seafoam could have caused the misfire codes. Does it run like it has a misfire? I would try clearing the codes if you haven't and then see what comes back.

[ToolGuy]

Welcome to the site! I am not trying to be mean here but if one of the CEL lights has been coming on for months, why was it not taken care of? Driving for months with CEL's on is not the best idea...I cannot speak for Sea Foam but think it is the same as the GM Top Engine cleaner I have used. For the GM, you pour the entire can in the car at once, engine running and then you stall it out with the remaining fluid, then let it sit and not a quick shot like your car had done to it in the video. The suff needs to soak to penetrate the carbon build up. Usually if an engine has lots of pinging, then you use it. The cleaner does not clean injectors but the valves, valve seals and carbon off the tops of the pistons. For injectors you need to use Chevron Techron Fuel System cleaner, do not use anything else! This stuff works and is GM recommended. The guy in the video poured the Sea Foam into a rubber hose, not a fuel line hose to clean the injectors. Tus why I also stated use the Chevron, it pours into the fuel tank. No, plugs alone themselves are not covered under warranty. Not unless they are replaced along with some other engine part for warranty work such as getting a new head or something like that. If you got several misfires then I would put a set of plugs on the car. Yes, 35,000 is low miles for Vibe plugs BUT the type of gas used, if it is crappy gas will shorten the life of plugs. I replaced plugs in my 2003 PT Cruiser with 23,000 miles on it because it had a misfire due to gas I used from one station all the time. The plugs had a red tint and I know that was not right. Not saying you used crappy fuel but you can never tell what you are actually getting. Most of the time the only way to fix a misfire is with plugs and wires. It could also be injectors but run 1-2 bottles of the Techron through it for that and see what happens. Sounds like you have no choice but to put some money into the car to fix it. Do not think Sea Foam or any other dump in solution will fix all these CEL's.I had an EVAP leak code, the same one, for a bad gas cap on my Vibe a few months ago. Put a new cap on it and everything was fine. The cap gasket was bad and a $7 auto parts store cap fixed it right up!

[04 VIBE gurl]

The lights go on and off. They haven't been steady CEL lights. I've had the whole bad gas cap issue fixed once before. The Seafoam was sucked directly through the brake booster line which is a direct port to the heads. Thats how your supposed to use it.I've never used Chevron Fuel System Cleaner as I don't believe it stuff like that. I only trust Seafoam cause it does the same thing when you pour it into the gas tank and because they have been around so much longer. I use the crappy gas, I've never used premium but now I am going to every other tank just to clean some stuff out. My car is at the dealership right now and I told them what everyone has told me about the car and they looked at me like I was some stupid blonde not knowing what I was talking about. Unfortunately for them, I have you guys to edumacate me! LOL!Seafoam actually made my car run and idle ALOT smoother than before, so I have my faith in it. I will let everyone know what there final diagnosis was when I get it back!

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by 04 VIBE gurl »The lights go on and off. They haven't been steady CEL lights.Even if the light does stay on, if it comes back, you shouldn't wait it out. CEL's can sometimes mean serious issues...Quote »I've never used Chevron Fuel System Cleaner as I don't believe it stuff like that.As MVTG stated, GM recommends Techron and IIRC resells it in dealerships under their own brand of products. Quote » I only trust Seafoam cause it does the same thing when you pour it into the gas tank and because they have been around so much longer. Longevity, in this day in age, sadly means nothing. Just because something's been around doesn't mean it's good. NOt saying seafoam is bad, but don't trust a product based solely on how long it's been around. Personally, I would never put that stuff in my car. That's just me though.Quote »I use the crappy gas, I've never used premium but now I am going to every other tank just to clean some stuff out. You're only wasting money by doing that. A higher octane will do NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING, to benefit your car. If it's the detergents you're trying to get, that's what Techron is. Same stuff added to Chevron gasolines. And it's significantly cheaper to buy a $6 bottle once every few months than it would be to pay $5 or more in higher-grade fuels every fill up. Plus, many reports have confirmed that most refiners add the same detergent quantities to their lower grades as they do their premium grades.

[04 VIBE gurl]

Ok, so here is the crap they gave me.There is a CEL sensor broken and my plugs don't need to be changed.So basically they said nothing was wrong except for a malfunctioning CEL sensor that they "fixed".So, looks like everything is good . . . NOT! Ill give it another month.I need to get my bf to change my plugs soon, or at least check them.Thanks for all your help guys, realy appreciate it!

[2002sportside]

A bad sensor is usually what trips CELs...If there is really a problem the light will be back in a couple hundred miles. I kinda expect the EVAP codes to come back...

[ToolGuy]

Chevron Techron is for the fuel system only, unlike the universal Sea Foam. I went to the Sea Foam site and it can be used to clean fuel injectors but not like in the Sea Foam Vibe inducting it through the brake booster hose video. A GM Master Tech good friend of mine also recommends Techron and he works on everything from a $25,000 Vibe's to a $75,000 Corvette Z06's. It is not about which product has been around longer though...For others reading this post I have also found this..."BMW is now recommending Chevron gasoline for their new vehicles. BMW recommends Chevron fuel specifically because of the Techron fuel additive that Chevron supplies. This additive substantially reduces the formation of deposits in the injection system and valvetrain and is supplied in a preventative concentration. BMW recommends an additional fuel system cleaning additive to be used periodically in our vehicles. Three products are warranty-approved: BMW's own fuel system cleaner, Chevron Techron, and Redline SI-1." Glad the car is fixed... Oh and do not use Premium fuel, you are only wasting your money with it on vehicles that are not made to run on premium fuel.

[04 VIBE gurl]

When I say a sensor malfuntioned, I mean literally a sensor broke. That usually doesn't happen. A CEL is usually thrown when the computer detects something is not correct, not that the actual sensor for the CEL is broken. I don't believe a word that comes from these guys, they have not impressed me before and they certainly have not impressed me now.That video is me guys, just letting you all know that. Thats my car and my bf and his friends. It was funny as hell to see all that smoke and my car has been idling perfectly ever since. I used to have a horrible crunching noise at start up and a horrible vibration at idle with and without the A/C on. After that, all that went away. I back Seafoam now because of it.The way he used it is correct, I read the back of the bottle. It says to go through a vacuum line on the car and the most universal vauum line is the brakebooster cause everyone has one. Its either that or the PCV valve.The way you clean the heads and the injectors is by taking the heads off and doing something with that whole mess. Something I didn't want to bother with.But thanks guy, Ill probably be back on here when the light turns on in a couple hundred.

[CAN-AWD-VIBE]

not sure why you are so doubtful... if they didn't fix it that light should be right back on.What sensor was it that did break? You should have got a copy of a work order with an explanation of the work they did.

[2002sportside]

Agreed, the light will be back on in a couple hundred miles if they didn't fix it. The PCM has to go through it's series of tests... once it hits the one that deals with that sensor, it would be back.And sensors go bad or break all the time. The PCM gets its signals from the sensors. How do you think it detects when something is wrong? A bad sensor is exactly what causes a CEL. Or a sensor that reads something abnormal. By itself the PCM is brainless... There is no one sensor for the CEL. If you were so doubtful about these guys you should be taking your car somewhere else, there has to be another dealer in the area...

[ragingfish]

I think I've known more cars that have had MIL's triggered by bad/blown sensors then actual problems! LOL!

[04 VIBE gurl]

I know the sensors can go bad, but he is sayin that all those sensors (CELs) that I mentioned were all broken . . . all at once. I can't take it somewhere else either cause its under warranty and its free!Anyways, the latest . . . I looked under my car when I noticed something hanging under my car. I looked and say a pair of pliers with a evap hose clamped. I looked closer, it was my evap hose to my fuel tank. So, THEIR fix to the CEL was to clamp the hose to create vacuum so the fuel pump could pump enough gas to my cylinders so it doesn't misfire again.Aren't the stealerships wonderful in fixing problems?

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by 04 VIBE gurl »I know the sensors can go bad, but he is sayin that all those sensors (CELs) that I mentioned were all broken . . . all at once. I can't take it somewhere else either cause its under warranty and its free!You CAN choose to have warranty work done at a different dealership.

[04 VIBE gurl]

You are absolutely correct. That might just be my next stop.

[Mavrik]

Quote, originally posted by 04 VIBE gurl »I know the sensors can go bad, but he is sayin that all those sensors (CELs) that I mentioned were all broken . . . all at once. I can't take it somewhere else either cause its under warranty and its free!Anyways, the latest . . . I looked under my car when I noticed something hanging under my car. I looked and say a pair of pliers with a evap hose clamped. I looked closer, it was my evap hose to my fuel tank. So, THEIR fix to the CEL was to clamp the hose to create vacuum so the fuel pump could pump enough gas to my cylinders so it doesn't misfire again.Aren't the stealerships wonderful in fixing problems? ok say that again? The Evap system is to purify gas fumes... it does NOT supply fuel to the cylinders. You can completely remove the evap system and other then set codes the car will run completely FINE.Thats pretty messed up...

[ToolGuy]

Plus the repair order from the dealer should state what sensor was replaced if the tech did indeed replace one per what the dealer said. And clamping a hose that contains vapors will stop a misfire. Injectors or plugs for misfires... this is what I suspectHave your injectors cleaned using Sea Foam like it states right off the Sea Foam site to try and prevent the codes from coming back. And please do not take this the wrong way, we are all just trying to help get your car back to normal quickly and accurately. There is a lot of great information and knowledgeable people on the site to help you. How Many Mechanics Use SEA FOAM In Tune-Up of 4 Cycle Gasoline Carbureted or Fuel Injected Engines Autos, Trucks, and Tractors 1. With engine warm, slowly pour 1/3 to 1/2 pint through carburetor or throttle body throat. (If vehicle is port injected slowly pour SEA FOAM through direct manifold vacuum line that will feed all cylinders, possible sources are P.C.V. valve or brake booster line.) This will pull SEA FOAM down on top of the pistons and to the back of the intake valves to dissolve carbon. Turn ignition off. Restart engine after 5 minutes. If severe carbon build up is apparent, use more Sea Foam as previously directed. Make sure exhaust is well ventilated when using Sea Foam in these various ways as fumes will be extreme for a short time. 2. Pour 1/3 to 1/2 pint into oil crank case to clean rings, lifters, dirty parts and remove moisture.3. Pour 1/3 to 1 full pint into fuel tank to clean injectors, carburetor jets, fuel lines and remove moisture. 4. Immediate Results: Smoother idle, increased R.P.M.'s better throttle response and improved performance. See label on can for detailed results for use in each area. I would do step #3, 2-3 times...

[2002sportside]

I assume you looked under the car before this... but are you sure that clamp isn't left over from when you had the accident? Something like that would definitely cause an evap CEL. I doubt it would cure (or cause) anything having to do with misfires though.I'm suprised the light isn't back on...

[CAN-AWD-VIBE]

looking at the codes you gave us there is really only 2 different ones1- 2 evap codes2- 3 missfire codesthere might be 5 of them but they are in 2 groups-- related to one another.The story of the fix and the CEL and now this pair of vise grips clamping a hose is a little hard to believe. Im not saying that they are not scamming you but I am saying the story seems to be missing some critical infoWhat is the Complaint, Cause, and Correction on the work order? Why if the pliers are the "repair" did the vehicle not start running poorly and the CEL not come back on when you removed them?If you dont know the answers to these 2 questions you should get on the phone to the service manager to find out what is going on. If you still have the CEL and you cant get good answers from this dealer--- TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. Why do people insist on taking the vehicle back to the same place the are unhappy with? You dont go back to a Chinese food restaurant after you get some bad sweet and sour pork do you? If you are inside basic warranty then again TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.Also are those codes all active or are they stored. Maybe the misfire codes are related to when you sea foamed it and it ran rough while it got cleaned.For all I know, you had a loose gas cap and a little water on the ignition wiring. Similar codes for a couple simple problems. Who knows?

[04 VIBE gurl]

The dealership has no fixed the issue yet, they had to "order" the correct parts and are calling me back in this weekend.The reason I got the hose clamps were there was because the hose was supposed to be connected to a closed vacuum system (gas tank) and because it wasn't connected properly before, the vacuum system was not performing at its peak (fuel pump) therefore not allowing enough fuel into the cylinders and thusly causing a misfire. That is what my friend said who owns a Corolla S who is a car guy, but my guess is that they just threw those clamps on there for now to stop my motor from misfiring until they can fix the problem.I know the evap is not to supply fuel, but if there is a closed vacuum circuit that is not under pressure creating vacuum, then the other components won't function properly in delievering fuel.Quote, originally posted by CAN-AWD-VIBE »looking at the codes you gave us there is really only 2 different ones1- 2 evap codes2- 3 missfire codesthere might be 5 of them but they are in 2 groups-- related to one another.The story of the fix and the CEL and now this pair of vise grips clamping a hose is a little hard to believe. Im not saying that they are not scamming you but I am saying the story seems to be missing some critical infoWhat is the Complaint, Cause, and Correction on the work order? Why if the pliers are the "repair" did the vehicle not start running poorly and the CEL not come back on when you removed them?If you dont know the answers to these 2 questions you should get on the phone to the service manager to find out what is going on. If you still have the CEL and you cant get good answers from this dealer--- TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. Why do people insist on taking the vehicle back to the same place the are unhappy with? You dont go back to a Chinese food restaurant after you get some bad sweet and sour pork do you? If you are inside basic warranty then again TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.Also are those codes all active or are they stored. Maybe the misfire codes are related to when you sea foamed it and it ran rough while it got cleaned.For all I know, you had a loose gas cap and a little water on the ignition wiring. Similar codes for a couple simple problems. Who knows?There is nothing missing from my story. Those pliers just happened to show up after I took it in last week. They haven't given me a work order yet cause they aren't done. Ill let you know what they say.The car was running rough and idling like crap before and when I started it cold, it sounded like sand. But I posted that before.

[LUVROK]

I don't understand why you added seafoam to fix a crunchy / sandy noise in the engine. I would take that thing straight to the dealer, warranty or no warranty or pull things apart, swap plugs and see if the noise still occured, especially if getting misfiring codes.

[04 VIBE gurl]

The seafoam is JUST a maintanence item that my boyfriend uses on his work trucks and his own vehicles. If you do some research in the diesel field, you will see Seafoam is used as regualry as an oil change. It is amazing from all the research that I've done. Some people say it actually gives them the power they lost over years and thousands of miles. I really don't know and I don't expect it to do that. I expect it to clean my injectors and the carbon in my motor, which it does.When my bf used it, the crunchy noise went away and so did the rough (removed) idle. The latest thing with my car is that I fill it up, drive it for a day, and it tells me I used 3/4 of a tank of gas on like 50 miles. So I fill up and I can't even get a gallon of gas in at the pump.So something is serisouly messed up. I can't wait til they give me a reason why they used clamping pliers to fix a problem either, thats going to be fun watching them squirm.