Inside frost/moisture problem

[Imonaride82]

Hey guys. I know this is not just a Vibe thing, but I was curious if someone could help me out a little. So in December, the inside of my windows were frosting up overnight when it was cold. They would start to fog when it got cold, then as the night went on, actual ice formed. I called where I took it for service so they could check it out. Basically, he said everything looked good, and the only problem could be that I have a low freon level which caused the mechanism in the car that takes out all moisture so that this doesn't happen not work properly. So they filled it back up, and it was good. He told me there was a small freon leak beyond detection, so they could not fix the actual tank. He said I would probably have to go through this in later years, which is another topic... and its crap. But anyways. Yesterday, there was fog on my front window inside. Nothing outside, but inside was like condensation. Just like before. I don't know if this happens to everyone from time to time when the temp is just right or something, or is my problem not fixed? Does anyone know anything about this? Also, I know that there is some wind leak on the door handles. Is this Pontiac recognized? I have a feeling it would be expensive to detect/ cover wind leaks if not. I appreciate your help!

[joatmon]

Apparently its a common problem, although luckily one I have not had myself.In http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=20844, Baltovibe said:Quote, originally posted by Baltovibe »Common problem. See these threads:http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id ... 4hopefully one of those will have some helpand I agree, them saying there is a freon leak they can't fix is crap

[Imonaride82]

Thank you, I didn't even think to search for it. And yeah, that is crap that they tell me they can't fix it and I will have to deal with it later. This should be recalled. Not only is it a pain, but when one scrapes the inside and the ice melts, what if it damages something? Its so annoying. But I appreciate it a lot!

[Imonaride82]

And maybe the whole freon leak is another common thing too. I don't see how it would have a leak already. It seems weird that this is something we accept as normal. It doesn't seem normal. GM needs to recall the dehumidifying system or see if there are potential leaks we all have that are overworking the dehumidifying system. I understand the snow/ coffee scenarios once in a while, but I don't know.

[kostby]

It's a closed-loop-system problem. Inside condensation/frost is not something they're EVER gonna fix at the dealership.The moisture that is removed from the interior in either AC or 'Defrost' mode just doesn't have anywhere else to go when you have the windows tightly closed. There's not enough 'moist' air escaping the car or (presumably dry) fresh air coming into the car to get rid of the moisture. Using the AC RECIRCULATE setting intensifies the effect, letting virtually no fresh air into the system.It evaporates as the interior air warms, condenses on the AC coil in the heater, and, when the glass cools, recondenses on the interior glass.The way FORD 'solved' the problem on my wife's '96 Taurus was to have the AC compressor running (thus dehumidifying the air) in all climate control settings except VENT. The penalty is a few tenths of a mile per gallon less gas mileage.Requoting myself from http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=14096Quote, originally posted by kostby »Modern cars, like modern houses are pretty tightly sealed.The AC compressor runs on most cars when you use the DEFROST settings:In winter, once the moisture has been removed from the passenger compartment air (mainly by condensing it onto the (cooler) surface of A/C heat exchanger under-dash) the moisture has no where to escape to when you turn the car off and leave it completely closed up.Then the sun shines, the car interior warms slightly, and the moisture re-condenses on the cold(er) inside surfaces of the windows. When it gets dark and cools again, voila, FROST on the inside.The same thing happens in the summer, except that the much higher ambient temperature is enough to evaporate a lot more of the moisture still in the cabin air, so you don't notice it condensing onto the windows, UNLESS THEY'RE EXTREMELY DIRTY on the inside.If you turn off the AC and just run the blower on a summer day, you'll notice how much more humid the air feels until most of the moisture is re-evaporated off the heat exchanger.So, how to deal with it???In winter, I turn the fan on high, set the control to one of the vent settings (NOT either of the two right-most Defrost modes), open my front windows a bit (1/4 to 1/2 inch) when it isn't raining/snowing hard to let that moisture escape and the cool dry air into the car during the last mile or so before I park it.If it's a very sunny day (with no sudden weather changes anticipated), I leave the windows open a bit for the same reason in very cold weather. It also helps prevents the inside-icing problem.I also try to brush as much snow as possible off the outside of the car, particularly above the doors. The Vibe seems prone to letting loose snow into the interior, particularly the seats, when you open the doors.Anyone else have suggestions?

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »It's a closed-loop-system problem. Inside condensation/frost is not something they're EVER gonna fix at the dealership.The moisture that is removed from the interior in either AC or 'Defrost' mode just doesn't have anywhere else to go when you have the windows tightly closed. There's not enough 'moist' air escaping the car or (presumably dry) fresh air coming into the car to get rid of the moisture. Using the AC RECIRCULATE setting intensifies the effect, letting virtually no fresh air into the system.It evaporates as the interior air warms, condenses on the AC coil in the heater, and, when the glass cools, recondenses on the interior glass.When the moisture in the air condenses on the AC coil, it drips off and flows out the drain tube, so the system is not closed. That's the primary reason they designed the AC to come on automatically when in defrost mode. Having moisture on the windows is because more water is getting inside the car than is being removed. Moisture can be removed by either dry air flushing or the dehumidification of the AC. If you live in a place where you can't avoid tracking in snow, and then only drive for a few miles, the system doesn't have enough time to get rid of the moisture. Some things can affect the ability of the system to remove moisture, such as low freon, or a clogged drain tube.I say go run that car on the highway for an hour or two with the heat blasting at the floor to evaporate any moisture, and open a window a little to give it somewhere to go, and dry that thing out. ( I get a good flow by opening the driver window and the rear passenger window) After that, maybe the recharged AC can keep it under control.And try to keep from tracking any snow into the car. Some parts of Colorado have gotten serious snow dumpage over the last month, so that could be a challenge.

[Imonaride82]

Yeah, this snow is never going away here... but doesn't the deuhmidifier actually always run? That is what I have heard from some GM people anyways. I don't know.

[prathman]

"but doesn't the deuhmidifier actually always run?"There's no separate dehumidifier - just the air conditioner which does pull water out of the air as it condenses on the cold coils. But the AC only operates if it's either turned on manually or the heating controls are set to defrost *and* the ambient air temperature is high enough (usually over 40F).There are a variety of reasons why some people may experience excessive interior fogging or icing of windows, all of which involve too much moisture buildup in the car's interior. That could be coming from user errors such as leaving the heating controls set to the 'Recirculate' position, tracking in too much snow/slush, or letting snow fall into the vehicle when doors or windows are opened. But it could also be the result of mechanical problems in the vehicle. Those include 'recirculate/fresh air' louvers that aren't moving fully to the fresh position, a plugged drain under the air conditioning coils, a leak in the heater coils letting coolant water into the interior, or plugged air vents preventing humid air from leaving the car.A good dealer service department should be able to work with the customer to identify the source of the excess moisture buildup and resolve the issue either through education or by fixing any mechanical issues.

[Imonaride82]

Thank you. Yeah my car was fully inspected.

[rocket9005]

I had this problem when I first got my Vibe. I alll my previous cars in the winter I used to leave it on defrost until spring, but that leaves the A|C on too, and when you turn off the car the cold air just sits on the windshield. Now I use the defrost just when I need it, and I change it from defrost to another mode a minute or two before I turn off the car. So far no more frost inside.(sound of knocking on wood)