Oil temp sender???

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:58 am

If any of you have an oil temp. gague, how do you split the stock oil temp sensor and the sender you get from the gauge?I dont know how to split it? do i just tap into the stock sender?Is there some sorta splitter to keep existing and use new?Any help would be awesome!

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:34 am

I don't believe there is a stock oil temp sender, however, there is a stock oil pressure sender and it is located above the oil filter.

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:44 am

thats what i mean... dont i have to put the temp sender/sensor thing where that is??? but i need that stockone for the ecu.What would i need to do

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:54 am

I confussed, are you trying to hook up an oil 'temp' gauge or an oil 'pressure' gauge?

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:00 am

I have an oil temp gauge.. it came with a sender piece... i hear it screws into that spot above the oil filter.I dont know if theres a way to split it

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:24 am

I doubt seriously that you can use the port above the oil filter. My guess is the factory oil "pressure" sensor (above the oil filter) has metric threads and the sending unit that came with your aftermarket oil "temp" gauge has SAE/NPT threads. You would have to have a "T" block that has male metric threads that would screw back into the port above the filter, then have female metric threads so the stock "pressure" sensor can be screwed back in and then you would need female SAE/NPT threads so the aftermarket "temp" sensor can be screwed in. Even with this set up, I'm not sure the stock "pressure" sensor would work. Hope this helps.

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:27 am

Hmmm.. ill see what i can figure out... i might just go to a shop and get them all wired up and let them get them to work!!!I hate trying and not getting them to work.

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:40 am

Don't give up that easy, just remember, where there is a will, there is a way. The aftermarket sending unit(s) that came with your aftermarket gauge(s) are unique to the gauges they came with. I don't think your aftermarket gauges will work with any of the stock Vibe sending units. That's why most aftermarket gauges come with their own sensors. Sorry.

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:26 am

http://www.newcelica.org/forum...85921This might help... They put the temp sender in the oil pan but the pressure sender location should work since it does see oil. It probably won't be the most accurate place to get a temp reading though.

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:46 am

I may be wrong, but I would strongly recommend that you NOT use the "sandwhich" plug in your oil pan and here is why. I have one of those sandwhich plugs, it's for adding a transmission pan drain plug so you can drain the fluid before dropping the pan. It is NOT 1/8 female NPT, like the sending unit is. The threads are very similar but not exactly the same. In that picture, sealer is the only thing really holding the sending unit in. Almost instant disaster if that sending unit falls out.click to enlargeYou can see from the above pics that the plug uses a small rubber "O" ring to seal. Pipe threads seal by squeezing together as they are tightened against each other. Again, the threads look the same but they are not.I would also think that the coolest oil would be in the pan, so your not getting a true oil temp reading. The hottest oil is going to be in the cylinder head, around the valve trane area.The bottom line - getting an accurate oil "pressure" reading is far more valuable than oil "temp" reading. Best of luck.One other thing, placing the water coolant temp sender in the block is not good 'cause that is where the coolest water is. On most engines, cool water flows from the radiator, thru the block, up thru the head(s) and back to the radiator. Most factory coolant temp sending units are located in the head or t-stat housing, where the hottest water is located.Where Raymund located the oil pressure sending unit is about the only thing I would agree with. Sorry.

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:26 pm

http://store.summitracing.com/...w=skuThis adapter has 1/8 NPT threads... http://store.summitracing.com/...w=skuso does this one...Oil temp is usually taken in the oil pan. All aftermarket pans have bungs welded in there for this purpose. You think the coolest oil is directly below the pistons? The hottest water temp would be in the block. The purpose of the coolant is to remove high temperatures from the cylinders and combustion areas via the piston's side surface, not from the head. Any point after this (thermostat housing, etc) would basically have the same temp reading. I would prefer to weld a bung for the temp sender in the oil pan but there is no reason why the plug adapter won't work.

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:35 am

OK, my bad, the plug I have is NOT 1/8 NPT thread. the plugs you posted are, and would work with a 1/8 NPT sending unit. Raymund did not state that the plug he put in his pan was 1/8 NPT. My point was, be sure the male/female threads are the same in order to obtain a good seal and not have the sending unit vibrate out.Your a big Summit Racing fan, show me an oil pan that they list that has bungs welded in for an oil temp sending unit. Help me out, after looking, I couldn't find any pans with that description or even a picture of one but I didn't look at every single one either. I understand, if one installs an oil "temp" gauge, that the oil pan is the easiest place to locate the sender. But it is not the best place for accurate oil temp readings 'cause that is the coolest oil. I know that the coolest oil is directly below the pistons - and it's in the pan. As long as the oil remains in the pan, it's cooling. Some enginemfgs. actually squirt oil to the under side of the pistons to cool them.The hottest water is NOT in the block, it's in the cylinder head(s) (unless you are talking about a GM LT1 or LT4 engine that uses reverse flow cooling). When the coolant leaves the radiator, it flows thru the block first, then thru the head(s) second, then out to the radiator to be cooled again. The coolant exiting the head(s) is the hottest because it has picked up heat from the block first, and even more heat from the head(s) second and exits the engine thru the t-stat housing. That's why mfgs. place the coolant temp sending unit either in a cylinder head or, or close by or the t-stat housing 'cause that's where the hottest coolant is exiting the engine. Can you give me an example of an engine where the mfg. has mounted the coolant temp sending unit in the block?Again, my whole point was to explain that one needs to be very careful regarding the threads on the temp sender. All of the temp sending units I have seen are brass, and brass is very soft, especially the very fine threads on a 1/8" sending unit and they can easily be striped if screwed into the wrong female thread. http://www.spyderchat.com/1zzf...ow%22

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:15 am

thanks for all the info... i really didnt wanna drill into the pan... and that one link to newcelica, he taps off hes stock sending unit with something and has his oil pressure unit on it... can i do that with my oil temp???As for my water temp. they say to get an adapter (on order) and take a small section of the Rad. hose out on the left side of the radiator. and replace it with this unit. then screw in the sender?When i get it in ill post pics for more clarity

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:23 am

Quote, originally posted by djb383 Â»Your a big Summit Racing fan, show me an oil pan that they list that has bungs welded in for an oil temp sending unit. Easier to go to the manufacturer than dig through partial descriptions on Summit...Quote, originally posted by moroso.com Â» Includes 1/2" NPT bungs for plumbing turbo oil return line and installing oil temperature sender.You can find that quote on the following link. As well as most of their sport compact pans. Not sure about their other pans... http://www.moroso.com/catalog/...11114

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:31 am

Quote, originally posted by Mrizzle05 Â»thanks for all the info... i really didnt wanna drill into the pan... and that one link to newcelica, he taps off hes stock sending unit with something and has his oil pressure unit on it... can i do that with my oil temp???As for my water temp. they say to get an adapter (on order) and take a small section of the Rad. hose out on the left side of the radiator. and replace it with this unit. then screw in the sender?When i get it in ill post pics for more clarityYou can do that with the oil temp. Not sure how accurate it will be, probably close enough though. They also sell oil filter sandwich adapters for adding sensors.The water temp adapter for the coolant hose will work fine. Are you using a oil pressure gauge too?

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:04 am

no... i wanted it but only have 3 pods.it was mainly for looks i stupid me... thinking these would be the easiest.As for the A/F gauge... on 9thgen they say the reason my gauge isnt reading is cuz i have a wideband O2 sensor and a narrowband stock sensor. so thats why its not working.

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:14 am

wait, you mean you have a wideband gauge? Then you need a new bung welded into the exhaust pipe so you can use it along with a wideband sensor. I should have asked that before, never occured to me...Personally I would have skipped the A/F and gone with an oil pressure*. Or I would have only used one temp gauge. One temp gauge will give you an idea what the other is doing... if the oil is too hot the water will be too, and vise versa. When a car overheats, everything cooks. The stock water temp gauge is acceptable, the stock oil pressure light is not. Most of the time when the 'idiot' light comes on the damage is already done (I think most come on well under 10psi). Do you even have a way to tune the A/F or is it just for looks?I haven't read 9thgen in a couple of days...*actually, I plan on oil temp, oil pressure, and tranny temp. Someday...

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:51 am

Ok, you found one pan and it's a full blown racing application. I believe your original post was:Quote, originally posted by 2002sportside Â» All aftermarket pans have bungs welded in there for this purpose.

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:59 am

well maybe i can get the oil pressure later... i just wanted the easiest... once again it was for show mainly.the a/f one is decided... i gotta do pretty much what your saying.The oil temp... i may have to take to a shop to do the whole oil pan thing. not looking forward to the bill but wanna get them running.

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:03 am

Quote, originally posted by djb383 Â»Ok, you found one pan and it's a full blown racing application. I believe your original post was:Not many aftermarket pans (as in not stock replacement) are for daily driving... Although I believe someone on here has that pan...BTW, Audi TT and Saturn 1.9 liter engines have their coolant temp sensor in the block. You asked for one, I gave you two.

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:10 am

Quote, originally posted by Mrizzle05 Â»As for my water temp. they say to get an adapter (on order) and take a small section of the Rad. hose out on the left side of the radiator. and replace it with this unit. then screw in the sender?When i get it in ill post pics for more clarityWith regard to the coolant temp sending unit, that is exactly what I originally did on my '05 Vibe except I used a 3" long piece of 1 1/4" copper pipe spliced into the upper rad. hose. I then drilled and tapped the copper pipe to accept the sending unit. It worked perfect but you will need to run a ground wire from the copper pipe to a good ground. I later removed the sending unit from the copper pipe and screwed in a plug 'cause I installed a ScanGauge and didn't need the Stewart/Warner temp gauge. I'll post a pic this evening.http://www.scangauge.com/features/

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:11 am

Quote, originally posted by Mrizzle05 Â»well maybe i can get the oil pressure later... i just wanted the easiest... once again it was for show mainly.the a/f one is decided... i gotta do pretty much what your saying.The oil temp... i may have to take to a shop to do the whole oil pan thing. not looking forward to the bill but wanna get them running.The oil pan isn't hard to remove, it's only 16 bolts. Then you just have to clean the gasket surface, drill the hole, and install the bung. Then, use silicon for the gasket and reinstall torquing to 80 in pounds.Removal/install sequence.

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:25 am

i would obviously drain the oil.. but what would i do next... wouldnt there be oil dripping everywhere? i dont know whats inside the oil pan, so if i do this myself... i dont wanna mess it up.The Mrs. is already gonna give me dirty looks for attempting this

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:33 am

Quote, originally posted by 2002sportside Â»BTW, Audi TT and Saturn 1.9 liter engines have their coolant temp sensor in the block. You asked for one, I gave you two.Hey, I appreciate that, learn something new everyday but they are few and far between. I would almost be willing to bet they both have reverse cooling systems also and thats why the sending unit is in the block - to record the highest coolant temp as it leaves the engine. Not many people know the LT1 and LT4 have reverse cooling but that ain't the way it is with the Vibe. Neither is it like that on my '06 Saturn Vue with the 3.5 Honda V6.

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:44 am

I don't think either are reverse flow. Oddly, the LT1 uses a sensor in the head for the gauge. The PCM's sensor is at the water pump. This pretty much makes that gauge useless since the temps can vary by as much as 60 degrees between the two sensors.

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:50 am

On the Vibe it's pretty straight forward, there is nothing in the way. My first oil pan job was a '92 Maxima. On that thing you had to support the engine and drop the crossmember, remove all the mounts, etc... it's a 4-5 hour job. The book says the Vibe should take two hours. I think thats overkill... there is nothing to remove except for the pan itself (and passenger's side splash shield).You would want to get either some spill pads from an auto parts store (I think Wal Mart sells them too) or newspaper to deal with the leftover oil. there shouldn't be too much though. Other than that it's pretty straight forward. The pan will probably need some prying to get it loose too. There isn't much you can really do wrong taking off the pan and reinstalling it. But if you aren't comfortable doing it you could pay to have it done. Expect to pay at least two hours labor though. It would be nice if you had someone with a little knowledge help you out on this though, there is only one way to learn.

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:01 am

true. thanks... ill see if i can do it soon. just dont need an oil change yet. ill prolly do it next weekend.

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:14 am

lol. I've never used an oil filter sandwich adapter but that should work too. I know Greddy makes one as well as the cheap ones on eBay. As long as it's machined properly it should seal up fine. That might be an easier way to go. They used one in a recent Super Street article, but that doesn't mean they're good, it is Super Street... My main concern with one is that it might restrict oil flow somewhat depending on how it is made.

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:19 am

Ima check autozone or pepboys and see if they have anything. then ill check online.

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:26 am

You would want something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:32 am

WOW!!! thats a nice chunk of change.Whats the circle thingy?

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:36 am

Thats a sandwich adapter. You can find cheaper versions out there but thats the general idea. You bolt it up to the stock filter mount (I don't know the thread pitch though). It goes between the engine and the oil filter. Then you put your sensors in there instead of playing around trying to find other locations. It's an easier way to do it. I'm not sure how good it is though, I've never used one. But they are mentioned on numerous forums...

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:38 am

cheaper version http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:43 am

thats where i got my sender attachment piece for the water temp gauge.I take it, it would be easier and less hassle this way right?

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:42 am

Quote, originally posted by 2002sportside Â»I don't think either are reverse flow. Oddly, the LT1 uses a sensor in the head for the gauge. The PCM's sensor is at the water pump. This pretty much makes that gauge useless since the temps can vary by as much as 60 degrees between the two sensors.Here's you proof of reverse flow cooling - read on.http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt1_cool.html

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:12 am

Quote, originally posted by 2002sportside Â»cheaper version http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem Now that item is really cool. I can't imagine dropping the pan when something like this is available.

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:18 am

that what im thinking... it seems like too much work. plus you need to do a full oil change which costs around 20 bucks, plus a sandwhich adaptor thingy.I might just buy this next week and hopefully have all them running by the end of the week.

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:02 am

Here's a pic what I did to install the coolant temp sending unit. 1 1/4" copper pipe drilled to accept a brass fitting nut. Screwed the nut into the copper pipe and used JB Weld. The middle of the brass fitting nut is tapped 1/8" NPT to accept the sending unit or as you can see in the pic, 1/8" NPT brass plug. Again, I went with the ScanGauge later on and didn't need the temp gauge, since coolant temp readings are part of the ScanGauge function. The copper pipe is spliced into the top radiator hose as close to the engine as I could get it. It worked great and the temp readings on the aftermarket gauge were virtually identical to the readings shown on the ScanGauge.click to enlarge

2002sportside · Post by **2002sportside** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:10 am

Quote, originally posted by djb383 Â»Here's you proof of reverse flow cooling - read on.http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt1_cool.htmlI'm well aware of reverse flow cooling. But other than a few GMs, does anyone use it? It was not spoken very highly of in my lecture class...

CanadianTim · Post by **CanadianTim** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:03 pm

The $50ish sandwich adapter is a very good option for adding the temp sender. It won't show you the hottest temperature but it will provide you with a baseline of normal operating temperature that you will have as a reference when you're running it hard.I have a sandwich adapter feeding a bypass filter on my vibe. The thread is 3/4x16. You need to make sure the sandwich you order is small enough for this Toyota engine as there is not much clearance around the filter mount. The stock oil filter fits fine. It can also be easily removed for warranty visits to the dealer.The other advantage of the sandwich adapter is that many have several ports so you can add other gauges later.

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:10 pm

yeah i just ordered mine today... should be in by next week.the water temp adapter thingy should be here tomorrow or so.then ill get those two working.The A/F gauge might be a while til i can get a new O2 sensor and get it welded to the exhaustthanks for the input

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:29 am

got a big smile on my face today!!! one of the pieces i need to complete the whole gauge issues came today!the sender attatchment for the water temp. gauge is in.. so tomorrow ill have it up and running if i cant do it tonight.

djb383 · Post by **djb383** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:06 pm

You will post some pics, right? Thanks.

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:51 pm

i sure will... i dont know if i can get to it now... it started raining last night.If it lets up or stops today ill get er done.will post pics and all the goodies that come with.