Wrx killer...

MailGuy! · Post by **MailGuy!** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:48 am

http://www.caranddriver.com/pr....htmlThis car is really cool for the price, undercuts the WRX by thousands, is quicker, and a lot better looking. 263 horses at 5500 rpm and 280 pound-feet of torque.

GrayFox · Post by **GrayFox** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:05 am

I've loved this car ever since i heard they were gonna make it! I'd drop the vibe in a second if I had the money pssst... don't tell my vibe i said that

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:30 am

Can't wait, this and the Caliber SRT-4 are on my list!

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:38 am

gonna be a great car for sure. and wrx killer? only when the road's not wet, icy, snowy, or otherwise. for you guys in warmer climates, you don't need awd unless you rally. for up north, they'll still see taillights. for the price, i'd take that over the VW or an SRT4 any day. plus, i'm sure it'll be a lot more reliable! i doubt anyone would actually get that kind of fuel economy they are stating, because it'd be pretty damn hard to lay off the gas!

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:45 am

>i don't know about you, but i race in the snow all the time.>the wrx would beat a viper in the snow, but that is neither here nor there.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:47 am

this is alaska. we still have races and rallys in the snow. Rondy Rally Cross

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:51 am

the point being, under everyday driving conditions, the mazda would win. my AWD vibe would have destroyed your vibe GT in the snow, rain, etc., but that is not what matters because at the track, it would have been over from the green.

MailGuy! · Post by **MailGuy!** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:56 am

Quote, originally posted by drunkenmaxx Â»>i don't know about you, but i race in the snow all the time.>the wrx would beat a viper in the snow, but that is neither here nor there.You beat me to it. Who the hell would want to race when, it's icy, snowy or rainy? Even if I had all wheel drive I would drive slow in these conditions. You're just asking for trouble driving fast in inclimate weather.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:56 am

yes, exactly. that is why i no longer have my Vibe GT because when I am at a stop light and my wheels spin and I'm not moving, have 10 cars behind all honking to move my (removed), I can't do much to get to where I need to go, especially when my job requires me to have reliable transportation to get to appts. regardless, as I stated previously, all the posts made prior to mine were made by people in warm climates that do not need awd. since the title does say "wrx killer" I am in my right to contradict that. there is no doubt the MS3 is a great car, never said it wasn't. if you are going to say it's a WRX killer than be prepared for someone (and I'm sure you were waiting for it) to dispute that it will not in all circumstances. being that i do live in an area where over half the year is in snow, ice, or rain, it would NOT be a WRX killer. the MS6 however, is a completely different story as it is AWD too. thank you... have a good day.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:57 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Linky no worky. fixed.we do have races up here, just like any other winter sports. in cars, snow machines, or otherwise....

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:01 am

so, i would be incorrect to say that a viper is a WRX killer?if someone asks "which car is faster?" do you reply "the WRX because sometimes there is snow on the ground"

MailGuy! · Post by **MailGuy!** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:03 am

Quote, originally posted by drunkenmaxx Â»so, i would be incorrect to say that a viper is a WRX killer?Yes. With the correct conditions Subaru will beat everything.When I said WRX killer. I meant 0-60, price, desirability from an enthusiast stand point. Subies are ok cars for what they do.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:04 am

no, i'm not saying that it wouldn't be on dry pavement, however again, on anything BUT, it would not. you are not comparing apples to apples, but apples to oranges. one of my customers has both a wrx for winter and viper for summer. he KNOWS his viper isn't going to cut it in the snow, thus the need for the WRX. 2 different kind of vehicles for different purposes. that's like saying a Mclaren F1 is the same type of vehicle as an ATV. they both have 4 wheels and get you from point A to point B.

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:06 am

so, the conclusion is that the mazdaspeed 3 is in fact a WRX killer. as is a viper. they both have the capability of spanking it and sending it home.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:09 am

Quote, originally posted by MailGuy! Â»Yes. With the correct conditions Subaru will beat everything.no, not a Subaru, but an AWD anything. like i said, the MS3 is comparable to any turbo'd FWD vehicle. AWD, FWD, RWD, 4WD are not the same. they drive differently, handle differently, and are needed for various purposes. if i lived in the desert, i wouldn't waste my money and gas on an AWD. why would you even need it?? Point being, if you read the C&D article it even states they are going after the VW in particular, also FWD. if they were still to make the SRT4, then it would be comparable to that (neon) but not the caliber as it is a different type of vehicle. for $20-22K, to have a 263 hp/280 tq turbo FWD, is a STEAL! there is a reason the WRX is more because AWD costs more.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:11 am

Quote, originally posted by drunkenmaxx Â»so, the conclusion is that the mazdaspeed 3 is in fact a WRX killer. as is a viper. they both have the capability of spanking it and sending it home.and a WRX is also a MS3 and Viper killer fully capable of spanking them and sending them home as well.

MailGuy! · Post by **MailGuy!** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:13 am

Unfortunately even though they differ in drivetrain layout they are both in the same class:Sportcompact. People will cross shop them regardless.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:14 am

its no WRX killer thats for sure. 14.4 secs on the 1/4? A stock WRX can do that. The problem and I don't care how you look at it... 280 torque to the front wheels is going to make the car slow. Think about your Vibe and how it hops and bounces on launch. Now imagine doing that with another 100 or so HP and over 100 torque... ouch. I'm not going to preach Subaru but 4 wheels can get you going quicker then two front wheels. I'm sure its going to be a great fun car. but 23,000 for a base model might beat a WRX in price. But add on everything thats standard on the WRX and I bet that Speed 3 will be the same price in the end loaded.Nice car but I'd still rather have a WRX.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:16 am

Quote, originally posted by MailGuy! Â»When I said WRX killer. I meant 0-60, price, desirability from an enthusiast stand point. Subies are ok cars for what they do.of course, it's going to be faster. a stock WRX is 230 hp/230 tq and AWD which is a lot heavier. you pay for the price and weight of AWD. just looking on paper, it would seem faster unless the person driving the MS3 doesn't know how to drive and launches the car poorly. now for the price, if the MS3 was available at the time I bought the VGT, guess what i'd have bought instead?? you betcha! about the same price, a lot more power and tq, and also 6MT! plus, they are pretty damn sexy! would be a lot of fun!

MailGuy! · Post by **MailGuy!** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:18 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â» 280 torque to the front wheels is going to make the car slow. Think about your Vibe and how it hops and bounces on launch. Now imagine doing that with another 100 or so HP and over 100 torque... ouch. I'm not going to preach Subaru but 4 wheels can get you going quicker then two front wheels. Read the article. They engineered it so torque is restricted in the first few gears to limit wheelspin and torque steer.

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:19 am

also as far as that much torque making FWD slow, tell that to a stage3 SRT as it blows by you.

GrayFox · Post by **GrayFox** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:20 am

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe Â» plus, they are pretty damn sexy!lol, that's always a good selling point. When are car manufacturers gonna start putting the word "sexy" in their ads?

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:23 am

Quote, originally posted by MailGuy! Â»Read the article. They engineered it so torque is restricted in the first few gears to limit wheelspin and torque steer.you better believe when they get one in, i'll be one of the first to "test drive" just to see for myself.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:31 am

Quote, originally posted by drunkenmaxx Â»also as far as that much torque making FWD slow, tell that to a stage3 SRT as it blows by you.You just answered your own statement by stating it would take a stage 3. Talk to me about stock. Once you mod, you can't compare.And I read the article. I call BS. I can bet you I could break the wheels free and get it to bounce.

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:34 am

TQ is TQ, whether you have to mod to get it or not.as far as breaking the wheels loose, of course you can, my maxx can roast like hell with TC on.

MailGuy! · Post by **MailGuy!** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:41 am

All i'm saying is isn't it cool that all these manufacturers are one uping each other. In years past it was only Mustang and Camaro trying to outdo each other. The Mazda, Subie, SRT 4, Mitsu Evo, Cobalt SS are all fighting with each other right now on performance. The end result is we get some truly awesome machinery I couldn't have even dreamed of as a kid in the eighties. I admire Mazda for the MS3 effort. Aren't you excited to know what the next WRX has in store to counter this effort?

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:45 am

reminds you of the old days huh?

MailGuy! · Post by **MailGuy!** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:51 am

Feel like a beer?

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:53 am

better make it 12.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:25 am

Quote, originally posted by MailGuy! Â»All i'm saying is isn't it cool that all these manufacturers are one uping each other. In years past it was only Mustang and Camaro trying to outdo each other. The Mazda, Subie, SRT 4, Mitsu Evo, Cobalt SS are all fighting with each other right now on performance. The end result is we get some truly awesome machinery I couldn't have even dreamed of as a kid in the eighties. I admire Mazda for the MS3 effort. Aren't you excited to know what the next WRX has in store to counter this effort?yes, the STI is reported to be getting 330 hp for 2008. the WRX already gets the 2.5 L this year vs the 2.2 L it had before. that means a lot more a/m support and power, easily converted to an STI, etc. i think it's great, and about time, that the car manufacturers are giving us performance as well as trying to increase fuel economy. making vehicles more FUN as well as functional. i guess this way they can justify the huge increase in car prices! LOL

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:31 am

Yup... estimated 330HP is going to be a lot of fun.It is great when they are competing with eachother I agree. But I'm still a subie guy.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:41 am

Quote, originally posted by drunkenmaxx Â»better make it 12.what? 24 pk is better.

GrayFox · Post by **GrayFox** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:48 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»Yup... estimated 330HP is going to be a lot of fun.if this is the future of 4 bangers... the most performance oriented v6s & v8s are gonna be supercars

Katscan · Post by **Katscan** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:10 am

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe Â»of course, it's going to be faster. a stock WRX is 230 hp/230 tq and AWD which is a lot heavier. you pay for the price and weight of AWD. just looking on paper, it would seem faster unless the person driving the MS3 doesn't know how to drive and launches the car poorly.I have to agree with you on your points, when the SRT-4 Neon came out everyone was "WRX KILLER!!" and raving on how much faster and cheaper it is compaired to the WRX. Yes they are both sportcompact cars but you are still compairing apples and oranges. Of course a 2wd car with the same HP and trq will have a faster run time than one with AWD due to the fact that you have HP going to 2 wheels vs 4. Remeber that the 230 HP(or whatever its rating is) is the BHP or the HP strait from the crankshaft(I think) now if you were to measure the HP stats from the wheels, Im sure you will get an entirely different number. Like anything mechanical, the more moving parts you have from point a to point b the more power is lost in the transition from one part to another(friction is a killer!) Honestly, stop trying to compair the two.....I mean how many professional drag cars have you seen that are AWD?

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:51 am

Quote, originally posted by Katscan Â»Honestly, stop trying to compair the two.....I mean how many professional drag cars have you seen that are AWD?Or front wheel drive for that matter. Yes there are some but if you want a 10 second or faster... most go rear wheel.And I also agree with all your other points in there too. Good stuff.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:01 am

Haha, "WRX killer".

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:23 am

Wow, this sure turned into yet another "My Subie is better than everything" thread quick! Not surprised...

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:15 am

Quote, originally posted by damronjr Â»Wow, this sure turned into yet another "My Subie is better than everything" thread quick! Not surprised...well if it was labled "Vibe killer" I'm sure it would have turned into a Vibe defense as well. And since its about a car stated to kill a subaru, expect subaru fans to actually... (removed)... defend their subaru.

Katscan · Post by **Katscan** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:15 am

Quote, originally posted by damronjr Â»Wow, this sure turned into yet another "My Subie is better than everything" thread quick! Not surprised...No, not saying that at all. Just saying that you cant compair apples and oranges like so many try to do. The WRX is a popular car so of course people wish to make claimes that "my 2WD XXXX is better than your WRX nananabubu!" If you want to make compairisons, put the new Mazda3 up to another car in its class and then talk. Or Compair the WRX to the Lancer Evo6 or other AWD Compactsports.

millster · Post by **millster** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:17 am

OK, really. Is all of this necessary?Can we ALL just stop the arguing and bitterness, now?!

Katscan · Post by **Katscan** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:21 am

I dont think anyone is being all too bitter, to me it looks like a healthy discussion.

SuperSpeedWagon · Post by **SuperSpeedWagon** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:22 am

you know what all i have to say is that car is going to be sweet the wrx is cool also but i would have to see for my own eyes who is going to win the race

millster · Post by **millster** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:23 am

This is not a healthy discussion because far too many threads about other cars and even Vibes degrade into this argument about everything VS a Subaru and then when the Subaru is made to look less than perfect, it degrades further. It has to stop.

Katscan · Post by **Katscan** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:24 am

Do you think its going to have the same 6 speed auto or will it only come in a manual?

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:32 am

Quote, originally posted by Katscan Â»Do you think its going to have the same 6 speed auto or will it only come in a manual?I will never buy another auto again! I don't care if I kill my tranny on the way home from the dealer, I will learn how to drive an stick before I get another auto!

Katscan · Post by **Katscan** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:41 am

You mean you dont know how to drive stick??Ohh and the auto that the Mazda3 comes with is an autostick

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:44 am

Well thats what happens when vibe enthusiests buy a subaru.. they talk about both with equal passion but because its not always about a vibe it seems to offend people. oh well. Remaining on topicThe Speed 3 should never come as a automatic... I do not understand why they make a vette automatic... also like making the Vibe GT an automatic.You want all that power in a manual.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:48 am

Quote, originally posted by Katscan Â»You mean you dont know how to drive stick??Ohh and the auto that the Mazda3 comes with is an autostick The auto-stick I could deal with!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:51 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»The Speed 3 should never come as a automatic... I do not understand why they make a vette automatic... also like making the Vibe GT an automatic.You want all that power in a manual. They've almost always gotta provide an auto for the lame-@$$' out there like me who don't know how to drive a stick but want the car, same goes with the Vette. There are probably plenty of people out there who can afford and want a Vette thant either can't or don't want to drive a stick. I drove an auto Vette (b/c all the other performance cars they had there were stick! ) and it was kcufing awesome! I would still rather have the full potential with the stick than the sluggish, slow-shifting auto. Also, they did make the XRS auto in the beginning, I don't think the Vibe ever got the luxury.

GrayFox · Post by **GrayFox** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:02 pm

Quote, originally posted by damronjr Â»like me who don't know how to drive a stickman, and i thought I was behind. I just learned recently. I'm still need practice tho. I don't think an auto on the MS3 is that bad as long as it has the auto-stick feature. but 6-speeds are still more fun!