Prospective Vibe buyer

foreverwonder · Post by **foreverwonder** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:22 am

Hi everyone - I am a new user, but I have been looking at this site for quite some time.I will be in the market for a new(er) car relatively soon, and have been looking at a number of cars lately. I had a Toyota Corolla before, and was impressed with its reliablity, which is why I am interested in the current Corolla/Matrix/Vibe. My other option right now is the Mazda3, which doesn't get nearly as good fuel economy as even the Matrix/Vibe, but that is somewhat mitigated by 148 horsepower.My main question is why choose a Vibe over a Matrix? Stylng-wise, I like the Vibe better, but I have heard depreciation is much greater than a comparable Matrix, mainly due to the Vibe being branded as a Pontiac. Toyota's option package on the XR in Canada for ABS also requires 17" rims, and I am sure the tires can be more expensive than the regular 16" tires. Other than the 2003 models, has general reliability been good? I have heard reports about severe plastic rubbing in the dashboard (excessive squeaking) from carsurvey.org, but is this more the exception to the norm?I have been hearing reports about slow acceleration with the four speed automatic transmission - is there any validity in these reports? Granted I had a Corolla with a 102 hp four hooked up to a three speed automatic, which was fairly slow (and severely lacked any low-end torque).If anyone has experiences with resale value, reliability, or more than adequate acceleration with the automatic transmission in a Vibe, please feel free to post!Thanks.

GrayFox · Post by **GrayFox** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:46 am

WELCOME! While i can't comment on the resale value, the acceleration leave much to be desired. It's plenty peppy enough for city driving and decent on the interstate but for those of us with lead feet and a desire to drive fast (at time) it's a little lacking. But that can always be "fixed"

foreverwonder · Post by **foreverwonder** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:01 am

As long as it is powerful enough for city driving - I definitely won't worry about it not driving fast all the time. One concern I have is that some people (ColonelPanic for instance) bring up issues with Vibe reliability and General Motors' inability to service the vehicle properly. I am somewhat concerned with problems of dealer service.Does anyone have GOOD service experience at a Pontiac dealer?

cmhj2000 · Post by **cmhj2000** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:26 am

If the Corolla was peppy enough than power shouldn't be much of a concern since the power plants are similar and the weight difference is minor. The accelaration has only been an issue for me a couple times with short on ramps in 65 MHP zones and nothing I couldn't tolerate as it'll get to 55 fairly quickly.I looked at the Vibe/Matrix for several months before taking the plunge. FWIW I'm glad I did. Have an 05 Vibe base W/Auto.Per depreciation there is some merit to the Vibe depreciating faster. However it seems after 3 years the spread narrows.

ArcsVibe · Post by **ArcsVibe** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:29 am

Welcome to the site fellow Canuck!I have had my Vibe for over 3 years now. The only problems I have had was windshield replaced twice but I blame that on Quebec's crappy roads. The dealer I've gone to is Boisvert Pontiac and they are awesome I believe that when the Vibe first came out the GM dealers were lost but now they seem to know what a Vibe is As for a Vibe over a Matrix well I liked the Vibe styling better plus I got an incredible deal on it ( 60 months at 0% financing) It also helps that my brother works for GM I am not worried about the resale value since I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time. Once again welcome the site. If you have any other questions feel free to ask

KNINE · Post by **KNINE** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:08 pm

I went with the Vibe for two reasons, styling and rebates. Toyota was not offering any rebates on the Matrix. GM, however, is offering their end of the year rebates. My Vibe is not the fastest car I've owned, but the 5-speed still makes it plenty fun and I realy like the way it handles on those North Carolina country roads. I drive 100 miles a day commuting to work, so I was more concerned about gas milage than speed anyway. I would give it two thumbs up.

foreverwonder · Post by **foreverwonder** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:03 am

Thanks to everyone for the great welcome - I appreciate it. All of you are definitely steering me toward a Vibe!I am more interested in good fuel economy (I know the Corolla/Matrix/Vibe 1.8 VVTi aren't speed demons by any means - I had a 2004 Corolla automatic CE (base) as a rental for a week and it had plenty of power to accelerate onto the highways and throughout town and to get up severe hills) But, it also had great fuel economy - I think about 500 kms on just over half a tank of fuel. I like the 34/45 mileage rating of the Vibe with the four speed automatic (as rated by EnerGuide in Canada) - are these too far off ArcsVibe? Even with the five speed manual, are they far off from from the EnerGuide ratings, or even EPA (?) ratings in the US?Any problems with excessive dashboard rattling (more than the average squeaks)? Windows shattering (I have heard that happened once or twice)? Engine oil sludging? Any problems moreso related to 2003 models versus later models?

Mrizzle05 · Post by **Mrizzle05** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:14 am

welcome... everyone is pretty on par with the reliability and feedback.NOT all vibes are great... as CP stated about his vibe breaking all the time. but for the most part they are reliable. they have a toyota engine and a nice body style.my 5-speed 05 gets an average of 32-34 w/ spirited driving and some performance mods. so if i drove like a grandpa then id probably get about 36-38 MPG.My only problems right now are the weather stripping disolving (like that from the dealer) adn a speaker not working when i got it aswell. so other then that its a charm.My fiance also has one too. an 06 black w/ auto.Hope you get one and good luck on pricing and reliability!

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:15 am

First, my Vibe is a keeper! It only has 38,000 on it now. It is a 2003 and has only been to the dealer once for a TSB on the rotten egg smell, Cat issue.I just replaced the gas cap due it being faulty and at the beginning of the year the drivers side window channel molding. Both not major issues!The 4 speed auto trans is geared right and does just fine in city and hwy. Remember the HP and torque ratings and it is not a race car so it will not throw your head back when you step on it. I did add a drop in K&N filter for a little more power. My car is bullet proof! And I keep it maintained! I just dropped the trans pan to check it, clean the filter, magnets and added new fluid. I am still riding on the original tires, yep I am one of the only 2003 people to say that! They are noisy but the tread is good still and even. And the original battery! Never had a battery issue! Great, trouble free car! Get one, you will see and make many friends here!

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:45 am

As MIVibe-Toolguy stated, the egg smell. I got mine in July of '02 and I had that issue but it disappeared at about 20,000 miles. I'm at 64,000 so far....now that I'm reading that, I'm totally surprised I put that many miles on her already lol!Anyways, I had dash rattles, but they too disappeared over time. I took it to the dealer to have it looked at and they didn't do anything except get grease and gunk all over my dashboard and still didn't fix the squeeks. It fixed itself. Either that or my systems too loud ot hear anything anymore It is definately a peppy car, it can beat V6 Mustangs and hang with GTs fairly well as long as they are automatic. That's with CAI and exhaust though. It's a four cylinder so it wont be "FAST" persay unless you've got money for forced induction.From what I've seen the Matrix generally has a higher resale value by maybe $2-$3000. I don't buy cars with the intent to sell them before they die so I never really looked into it that deeply.The only issue I have with the 2003s is the paint. It's put on thin so it will be more suseptible to chips from road debris. Might want to consider that if you see any '03s you want to look at.As far as customer service with GM is concerned at the dealer level. Not very impressed. The dealer I normally went to had no knowledge of ANYTHING about cars which is hard to beleive, it took me 30 minutes to explain to the parts dept. guy that I wanted to by the plastic tweeter housing corners from the moon and tunes package! On the other hand I switched to another dealer for my part needs and they are very friendly and the woman I try to hunt down when I go there has an extensive knowledge of all cars so it makes me feel like I'm talking to someone taht likes their job and can relate to what I'm talking to without looking it up in the d*mn computer.Also, what MIVibe-Toolguy said, maintain her correctly and it will last a long time. Regaurdless of what make and model it is, as long as you maintain your car correctly, theoretically, it should last longer than a human Happy hunting!

Atomb · Post by **Atomb** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:18 am

heya foreverw,obviously, the main difference between the matrix and vibe is visual. so to decide between those you could do the simple 'i like the way that one looks better' test.as for quality concerns, i (like many) am disappointed with the ability for the dealer i bought my vibe at to handle maintenance. in fact, my dealership did something that has required me to go to a private small shop to repair. will buying from toyota eliminate this? don't know as it's dealership dependant, but i'm guessing they will have a bit more experience dealing with the corolla drivetrain (and experience is important!).as for the squeaks/rattles. yes. more than my last car (vw) more than my wife's car (focus) and more than my friend's civic and more than almost any car i rent during my business travels. it's actually amusing to actually notice the rattles once i get back into my car. temperature is a huge factor and the cold will bring along many new sounds that aren't there in the summer.otherwise, the car is nice. good storage/layout and comfortable. drives alright in the snow but on long snowy trips we take my wife's focus as it handles it better (vibe seems a little too light...)then again, any trip to Rona and we're taking the vibe! matrix built in cambridge, vibe in california.my neighbour bought a matrix last year and we've compared a bunch of stuff...they're identical. he hasn't owned his long enough to discuss maintenance yet...

Katscan · Post by **Katscan** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:15 am

I have an '06 Base Vibe with Auto and I know I have a lead foot. It has enough pep for what it has. Remeber its only a 4 banger, I test drove the Chevy HHR and the Dodge Caliber and neither one of those had the pep that the Vibe does....infact while the Caliber and the HHR have more HP than the Vibe, their acceleration was very very lathargic, I punched the gas and waited....and waited for it to get up and go.I was never concerned about the resale value as I am not one to purchase a new car every few years, I plan on driving my Vibe till it dies. As for reliablity, It honestly differs from car to car. You will have people like CP that had problem after problem and considers the Vibe to be a POS(Which I dont blame him due to his unfortunate problems and his dealership not willing to help him) and then you will have people that have had little to no problems. I feel that Dealerships also play a big part in customer satisfaction.

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:07 am

Agreed, IMHO a really good dealer can salvage the situation if you get a lemon and every manufacturer has those.

foreverwonder · Post by **foreverwonder** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:40 am

Thanks everybody for the replies - definitely is steering me toward a Vibe.Katscan - I tested the Chevrolet HHR and wasn't impressed at all - claustrophobic (tiny windows), horrible design for power windows (on the console, so you need to reach), and the ECOTEC 2.2 was noisy and slow with the automatic transmission. Haven't tested the Caliber, but it is a Chrysler - thankfully without the Chrysler-designed automatic though. Atomb - are the rattles really distracting? I'm guessing with plastic contracting in the winter, it's a lot worse.Merzbow - Thanks for the paint info for the '03 models - it's something I will check out. MiVibe-ToolGuy - Your experience with the 2003 sounds promising - I'll keep the '03s in mind. I can imagine it would be fairly bullet-proof - an old Corolla I had travelled almost 250,000 kms before failure. Any leaks - as the molding has been a problem?Mrizzle05 - thanks for the welcome. I think CP's Vibe is more the exception (read a few postings of his) - but I can't blame him for NEVER wanting to get a Vibe again either, as a result of the difficulties with his car. Any problems with the disolved weather-stripping leaking?Anyone have problems with the 1.8 L VVTi engine and oil sludging? I have heard that it was a problem with the Corolla.http://www.corolland.com/sludge.html(I know it mentions the Camry/Avalon/Sienna, but there is an initial section about the Corolla)

808 Vibes · Post by **808 Vibes** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:18 am

Welcome to the board! I confess...I am a leadfoot too, and have no complaints with acceleration on my automatic. My Mom's Frosty has (last I checked) over 6,000 miles...no problems or complaints, and my Neptune over 1,600 miles with no problems or complaints. You could probably get a good price on a 2006 right now, and if you choose a 2007, you get extended warranty Good luck!

the1stacekiller · Post by **the1stacekiller** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:36 am

No problems on the vibe except the stupid window issue (which I fixed myself) no engine problems what so ever.. change my own oil every 8-10K with Mobil 1 Synthetic..Great Mileage and great reliability so far 70,000 kms since Feb 2004.CheersMartin

jpalmer · Post by **jpalmer** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:55 am

The reason for the resale concern is the general fear of "American" cars vs. the "foreign" models after a few years of use.nevermind that the Vibe and Matrix are made in the same assembly plant in Tennessee (or Kentucky...I can't remember).

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:40 pm

OOO, I thought of one more thing to check for, atleast in '03 models. If you open the hatch glass, pull up the weatherstripping near where the wiper motor connects when closed. Check for small rust spots. I have a little tiny one in there. Not a big deal but it's like a fun scavenger hunt, and you can make the dealers feel like idiots too if you find one....that allways fun.

binary · Post by **binary** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:57 pm

Welcome to the board - I see probably ten to twenty vibes on my commute every day. But my wife and I both have '05 manuals with the same options. She drives 90-95% city, and I am 90% highway. So far neither has had issues that needed dealer or mechanic.The majority of members here agree that CP's was a lemon that needed to be pruned from the gene pool. CP, you got a raw deal from Pontiac and your dealer - I hope karma rewards you well for your past experience.For as much plastic that's in the doors, cargo, and pillars... I'm impressed at the lack of noise. Granted I'm only rolling up on 36k miles and only suffered 1 winter so far... it's been a tight car.As far as oil sludging... I hadn't had the top off the engine to say for certain - but my oil changes are long intervals with Mobil1, even after 6-8k miles my oil resembles oil and not asphalt.The vibe is not a perfect vehicle... but even though I'm 6'1" and the later side of 250... its a comfortable ride with more than enough leg, head, and sholder room. The manual has a tad more zing than the automatic or AWD... but that's what the extra pedal is for. And the sustained 36mpg sold me on it.

Atomb · Post by **Atomb** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:06 pm

The rattles can be 'intrusive'...just this morning (8C as you know) and a couple of old favourites from last winter started to speak up...i find myself doing a lot of 'arthur fonzerelli' fist banging in certain areas which tightens things up for awhile...but they come back to sing.i won't say it's "annoying" but it's definitely more than any other car i've driven in lately (or driven) as mentioned in my post above.i change my oil at anywhere between 5,000 and 6,000km and it's pretty dark at that time....black would be a good description. but i see the same general condition in the oil in my wife's focus at the same intervals ...and i'm pretty sure it was like that in my VW too...so i'm not sure about the whole sludgy issue.

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:26 am

I think -Vibe - assembled in CaliforniaMatrix - assembled in Canada

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:23 am

Check out this site. It's used for leasing companies to calculate depreciation on a vehicle. The Vibe is lower than the Matrix, but that is offset by the GM incentives, which make the purchase price lower for the Vibe. http://www.alg.com/deprratings.aspxExample: my '05 base stickered for $21,455. Invoice was $20,300. I bought the car (with no trade) for invoice less the $1500 rebate, less an additional $500 rebate ("March Madness", I think they called it) and less an additional $1000 conquest rebate since I own a Honda. Out the door, $17,300 for a $21,455 car.Try getting $4155 off a Matrix, and the Toyota dealer will think you're smoking crack.

foreverwonder · Post by **foreverwonder** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:57 am

new05vibeowner - thanks for the depreciation site. Matrix is three stars, Vibe two.jake75 - Yep, the Vibe is built at NUMMI, apparently because the plant doesn't have enough capacity to also build the Matrix there as well, so it is built in Cambridge, Ontario.Atomb - I'll definitely keep the rattles in mind when I get my Vibe - seems like it improves (from what you have said) in the summer months. I'm surprised it's that cool in B.C. already now (Toronto area - around 5 degrees this morning).binary - thanks for the welcome. The economy definitely impresses me - 34/45 mpg in Canada with automatic. CP's Vibe was definitely a lemon, and completely odd in contrast with what everyone else has said about the Vibe. Good to hear about the lack of plastic vibration inside.Merzbow - Thanks for the headsup on 2003 models rusting by the wiper motor - I appreciate it. Definitely I will be checking for that.the1stacekiller - great to hear that you have had no engine problems - the oil sludging seems to be likely a minimal problem, likely related only with infrequent oil changes. I always make it a habit to change oil every 5,000 kms in my cars, or every three months anyhow. Good mileage is always great to have in the advent of $1.10 litres of gas (although today it was 74 cents in Toronto).HawaiiPontiacLover - It's great to hear your Vibe and your mother's Vibe have had no problems or complaints. I'm sure the Vibe is no Mazda3, but it should have enough power.All of you guys have absolutely been great with all of my questions - I really appreciate it. I'll definitely be posting pictures of my Vibe when I get it - I decided to get one based on all of your positive experiences. The plastic load compartment basically solidified the deal (not to mention the large size of the load area).Now why doesn't GM realize what a great car it builds (oh, because it is basically half a Toyota, and gets better mileage than the Aveo, which is substantially smaller) and advertise it? That's probably for another thread though GM is really out to lunch.