Gas Mileage, what's the trick?

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:06 am

This is not your typical gas mileage thread. In my Vibe (4.3k miles) I've found that if I drive to keep up with traffic (medium to quick starts, typically about 75-80 MPH) I get 25-26 MPG. My commute is about 22 miles, with about 3-4 city miles. I have to idle at about 4 lights, usually. Now, if I take it slow, and I mean SLOW as in not crossing 2,500 RPMS in the city and 2800 RPMs on the highway, I can eek out 30 MPG. I use the cruise control whenever possible so that isn't a factor. What is left? How do I get better mileage?

ZubenElGenubi · Post by **ZubenElGenubi** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:22 am

Quote, originally posted by NewNeptune Â»This is not your typical gas mileage thread. In my Vibe (4.3k miles) I've found that if I drive to keep up with traffic (medium to quick starts, typically about 75-80 MPH) I get 25-26 MPG. My commute is about 22 miles, with about 3-4 city miles. I have to idle at about 4 lights, usually. Now, if I take it slow, and I mean SLOW as in not crossing 2,500 RPMS in the city and 2800 RPMs on the highway, I can eek out 30 MPG. I use the cruise control whenever possible so that isn't a factor. What is left? How do I get better mileage?Move to a cooler climate! Joking aside, I'm guessing that you're running A/C pretty regularly in Phoenix (as I do in Houston). 30mpg with A/C and the type of driving you're doing is pretty good for an auto, frankly. My commute is similar, if not as long, and I'm getting 30-31 mpg with my auto.Two easy tasks: check your tire pressure weekly and fill up in the mornings.One semi-easy task: get a cold air intake!

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:24 am

well if your driving a manual then you can (not sure how much this helps) keep the RPM low by shifting to higher gears. For example I drive in town at approx 45-50mph (speed limit is 45) so I keep it in 4th gear. This keeps the RPMs low. Could even shift to 5th but then it would be sluggish. When driving, keep the RPMs under 2800 as you said you do anyway. Don't idle the car for a long period of time. Don't use the A/C (of you don't need to... being baked is not the answer to better fuel lol ) I have a cold air intake and exhaust on my car. I sprint around town every day and average approx 520km per tank.

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:32 am

Yep, I keep the A/C on all the time. Tire pressure is a good idea, since I can't keep them up. I found out that just two weeks after filling them up to 32, one was down to 20 psi. It will be going in soon for this.Mavrik: I've got an auto, so I don't get a choice for my upshifts. Toyota/GM needs to add a manual mode.

Mase · Post by **Mase** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:47 am

The A/C is your answer. I've had mine through 3 summer/winter cycles. I avg 32mph during the winter and 26mpg during the summer. The mpg drop is completely caused by using the A/C. There's no real way to get around it.

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:59 am

1) Insulate your A/C lines in the engine bay to get colder air into the cabin. This will allow you to use the A/C less.2) Put your vents on recirculate so you are recirculating the colder cabin air vs. the hot outside air. Again, this will allow you to use it less.3) Also, try cycling your A/C while driving. Turn it on until the cabin is cold then shut off the A/C button and just recirulate the cold cabin air. Then when you feel it starting to get too warm for you again, then turn it back on. I have tried this a couple times and it helped with the gas mileage. Not sure if it would harm the A/C system at all though since the compressor starts and stops as needed when a/c is on all the time anyways. But it is worth a shot if it is that important to you.4) Also maybe switch to a K&N OEM replacement air filter. it will allow a little more air flow into the engine and increase your mileage a little.5) Check your cabin filter at every oil change to make sure you are getting the maximum air flow into and thruout the cabin.6) Check and clean your MAF sensor once a year to unsure optimum engine performance.That's all I can think of for now...

crazytrain · Post by **crazytrain** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:11 am

I live in South Florida and use the A/C at least 7 months out of the year. My last 3 fillups I've seen 28.74, 29.16 & 26.97 mpg. I've had the Vibe for 4 weeks and have over 2500 miles. I'd say it's a 65/35 mix between hwy & city driving (w/ some stop & go hwy traffic). I also tend to sit in my car while talking on the phone (I don't like to talk while driving). I'd say I spend 3 hours per week doing that.I haven't tried insulating the A/C lines yet, but I think that will be a project for this weekend. A question I have about that is if it's such a good idea why wasn't done by the manufacturer? Seems like such a simple thing to do. Are there any drawbacks to it?EDIT: I just want to add that I have an AT, hardly use the cruise control and have the A/C recirculate 90% of the time (sometimes the air outside is cooler than in the car, like when I've been parked for a while).

northvibe · Post by **northvibe** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:59 am

im not sure why they didnt insulate them more, they have that well..part of it is rubber, maybe they think thats good enough? but that helps a ton! Bluecrush just had his done at the MN meet with my cold air intake installed i shot 2mpg up course...now i just love hearing that rumble sound so now i drive a little more harder accelerating.

NaNC3 · Post by **NaNC3** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:03 am

This is for crazytrain:I was going to say that your MPG seems about right. Mine is similar. HOWEVER if you are idling 3 hours per week going 0 miles on some amount of gasoline, then that will bring your average down quite a bit. So I think you are doing well for MPG! On the other hand, that seems like a lot of engine usage that won't show up on your odometer, so you may want to get your oil changed more frequently than 3000 miles.

crazytrain · Post by **crazytrain** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:53 pm

Yes, thanks for the advice NaNC3. Much appreciated. I certainly will have the oil changed more often. With my other car I'd change it on average every 1.5 - 2 months. I'm already scheduled for service next week. Ahhh, the inconveniences of working out of one's vehicle. Sure beats a stuffy office though (in my opinion).By the way, 3 hours idling per week may sound like alot, but it's a few minutes at a time a few times per day. Although in my area there aren't any laws concerning cell phone use while driving I don't talk on the phone while driving....and I don't answer when I'm on a job doing work for someone else (I think that's just rude). So I return calls when I park or when I finish the job. In both cases I'm not sitting in the car sweating my (removed) off

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:02 pm

Change to synthetic oil on your next oil change if you haven't already. I usually get about a 2 mpg boost from doing that alone. Drive no faster than 60 mph if possible and cycle the air conditioning....that tip does work.

crazytrain · Post by **crazytrain** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:08 pm

Quote, originally posted by Tubaryan12 Â»Change to synthetic oil on your next oil change if you haven't already. I usually get about a 2 mpg boost from doing that alone. Drive no faster than 60 mph if possible and cycle the air conditioning....that tip does work.That's a good point about the synthetic oil. I got the extended warranty from the dealer (something I've never done before) and scheduled oil changes are "free". I never asked if they use synthetic oil or, if they have it, if it costs extra. I'll find out.

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:10 am

Quote, originally posted by Tubaryan12 Â»Change to synthetic oil on your next oil change if you haven't already. I usually get about a 2 mpg boost from doing that alone. Drive no faster than 60 mph if possible and cycle the air conditioning....that tip does work.Nooooo....the Vibe neeeeeeeds to go faster than 60! Honestly, most of the roads I drive have a speed limit of 65 MPH, with traffic typically going 75-80. So I try to go 70-75. I got the 30 MPG reading going 70 MPH on the highway, so, I know I'm in the right area for MPG. I just have to take the lead out of my shoes.

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:49 am

Quote, originally posted by NewNeptune Â»Nooooo....the Vibe neeeeeeeds to go faster than 60! Honestly, most of the roads I drive have a speed limit of 65 MPH, with traffic typically going 75-80. So I try to go 70-75. I got the 30 MPG reading going 70 MPH on the highway, so, I know I'm in the right area for MPG. I just have to take the lead out of my shoes. I have a manual, and get 33-34mpg per tank with the AC on all the time and trying to keep it 70mph or less, occasionally getting up to 80.I've also been able to get 30mpg out of the wife's auto 04 Camry.I use a rally driving trick which someone posted around here somewhere which also happens to be lead-foot friendly. Essentially, you accelerate as fast as you can in the highest gear you can. This usually means I shift between 2500 and 3000 in the Vibe, pedal to the metal in between shifts. This increases your average speed, thus increasing mileage.With an auto, such as the wife's Camry, one has to "shift" it using the throttle. Get up to about 3000rpm, competely let off the gas so it shifts, then back on the gas as much as you can without causing it to downshift. Repeat till up to speed. It takes some practice to figure out how much you can push it without it downshifting, and to get it to upshift when you let off the gas.

GrayFox · Post by **GrayFox** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:37 am

that sounds just crazy enough to work! It really does make sense, too..... kinda

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:38 am

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP Â»I have a manual, and get 33-34mpg per tank with the AC on all the time and trying to keep it 70mph or less, occasionally getting up to 80.I've also been able to get 30mpg out of the wife's auto 04 Camry.I use a rally driving trick which someone posted around here somewhere which also happens to be lead-foot friendly. Essentially, you accelerate as fast as you can in the highest gear you can. This usually means I shift between 2500 and 3000 in the Vibe, pedal to the metal in between shifts. This increases your average speed, thus increasing mileage.With an auto, such as the wife's Camry, one has to "shift" it using the throttle. Get up to about 3000rpm, competely let off the gas so it shifts, then back on the gas as much as you can without causing it to downshift. Repeat till up to speed. It takes some practice to figure out how much you can push it without it downshifting, and to get it to upshift when you let off the gas.Can the Auto tranny actually take that over and over again?

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:42 pm

Quote, originally posted by NewNeptune Â»Can the Auto tranny actually take that over and over again?I'm not sure what you mean. ?? It has to shift anyway as you get up to speed, you're just trying to control where it shifts. It isn't more shifting than normal.(And since you throttle it only as much as you can without it downshifting, it's not like you're really working it, either.)

srogers · Post by **srogers** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:54 am

Quote, originally posted by NewNeptune Â»Yep, I keep the A/C on all the time. Try to keep the fan setting as low as possible commensurate with your comfort. The lower the fan setting, the more often the AC will shut off the compressor (boosting the gas mileage) and just circulate the existing cold air. I/e/. you can modulate the air conditioning just like the throttle.

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:52 am

Yes, I do that. In fact, since I am usually the only passenger, I shut the furthest passenger vent and aim the other one at me. I can usually keep it on the 1st or 2nd setting.

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:10 am

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP Â»I'm not sure what you mean. ?? It has to shift anyway as you get up to speed, you're just trying to control where it shifts. It isn't more shifting than normal.(And since you throttle it only as much as you can without it downshifting, it's not like you're really working it, either.)Well, you've got the pedal floored off the light, which produces a certain line pressure in the transmission. Then when you hit, say 3k, you completely let off the pedal, forcing it to shift. I've tried it and it shifts rather harshly this way. Couldn't that suggest that, in tricking it into shifting earlier, you are getting it to shift at a point when the line pressure isn't what it should be? I can understand this happening on occasion in traffic, but it seems like it would be considered abuse of the transmision and engine.

J-freakie · Post by **J-freakie** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:33 am

Think of it this way. This of your car like a hairdrier (sounds stupid, but hear me out) It already has a constant power suply (electricity), if you keep the side of it clean, the more power you get out of it and the more air comes out. Same thing with the engine of your car. The more air flow you have comming in (that wont mess with your air to fuel ratio) need to go somewhere, so you need a good supply of air comming out. In other words, a warm air intake (dont get me started on how worthless the cold air intake is), possibly a bigger TB (maybe 4mm bigger) a new header (so that all the pipes are equal in length AND they are the same inner diameter no mater how many bends, also your downpipe should be included w/ your header) and a new exhaust system (probably 2 1/4" inner diameter would be best) And from there, you will graduatlly see your gas mileage go up. Also, keep up to date on the fuel filter, change it about every 30k miles. I hope this helped dan

ZubenElGenubi · Post by **ZubenElGenubi** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:33 am

Car HairdryerYour analogy only underscores the advantages of a CAI. First, larger and smoother piping increases airflow. Second, it is already an established fact that cooler (i.e., denser) air improves combustion. Dyno testing proves this.I agree with your points about header/downpipe/exhaust; there are better AM designs than OEM.The fuel filter on the Vibe shouldn't need replacing until 50K-60K miles.

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:09 am

Quote, originally posted by ZubenElGenubi Â»The fuel filter on the Vibe shouldn't need replacing until 50K-60K miles.The Vibe has a fuel filter? Sewell told me it didn't. There's no mention of it in the owner's manual, not even in the maintenance section. Are you sure the filter is a replaceable maintenance item?

ZubenElGenubi · Post by **ZubenElGenubi** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:57 am

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP Â»The Vibe has a fuel filter? Sewell told me it didn't. There's no mention of it in the owner's manual, not even in the maintenance section. Are you sure the filter is a replaceable maintenance item?Threads:http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id ... d?id=12175

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:44 pm

Oh no, not those stupid permanent fuel filters. They're permanent insofar as you only use your car for 100-150k or so. Every time I've changed a fuel filter on a car with a replaceable one, there was a noticeable idle and mileage improvement. I don't see anything that has changed, so what makes them think it can be permanent. On another forum, I suggested that a guy cut his truck fuel filter open, after it had been on for 60-70k. It took a dozen dremel wheels and a lot of sparks (in hindsight, not a good idea) but it was ugly inside. Clogged with junk and black.

J-freakie · Post by **J-freakie** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:18 am

Quote, originally posted by ZubenElGenubi Â»Car HairdryerYour analogy only underscores the advantages of a CAI. First, larger and smoother piping increases airflow. Second, it is already an established fact that cooler (i.e., denser) air improves combustion. Dyno testing proves this.I agree with your points about header/downpipe/exhaust; there are better AM designs than OEM.The fuel filter on the Vibe shouldn't need replacing until 50K-60K miles.I see your point on the "cold air" theory. But, since its a longer tube the air wont always pass though it at the same speed. For instance, if you take a regular sized straw and blow though it, you will feel the air come out of the other end at the same (if now just a little slower) than your blowing speed. But if you attach another straw to it and do the same test cept the air wont be as strong as when you feel it. How does this rely on the warm air intake (ram-air) and the cold air intake (cai) ... the one straw will be the ram-air intake and the two straws will be the cai. Also, if that doesn't make any sence, science has proven that air speed is decreased when going though many tubes the air speed has decreased.dan

J-freakie · Post by **J-freakie** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:44 am

Ok, I understand now. I was just I was just getting things tossed around in my head. I was thinking that the air was getting pushed in, instead of sucked in. My bad ... sorry for the debate. I admit defeat dan

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:27 pm

We all know that a cold air intake doesn't do squat for your mileage... Just read stuff around here, people saying stuff similar to "My mileage dropped since the CAI 'cause it sounds so good when you run the crap out of the car so now I'm always getting on it.." (removed) NewNeptune, if you're serious about boosting your mileage, you may want to look into a ScanGauge. (thread) You can see in real time how your driving habits or the conditions in which you drive are hitting your wallet. I've found quite a few surprising little behavioral issues with me that I didn't even know I was doing. It's fun to play games with too, if my mileage isn't as high as I'd like for the tank, I'll set a goal to reach and try various things to bring up the mileage. Pretty handy gizmo to have.

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:31 am

ScanGuage.... *drool* Yep, that's what I think I'm going to get. The engineer in me wants to calculate how much I would have to save in MPG to pay for it in a reasonable period of time. But everything else says, go for it! So I'll probably save up and get one.On a side note, I took a trip over the weekend. The car we were planning on taking failed the day before. Since the Vibe is too small for everyone and the dealership rented us an '07 Suburban, we took that. I was surprised, we actually got 16 MPG through very hilly terrain. Displacement on demand really helps. However, now driving the Vibe again, it feels like a go kart! LOL!

ZubenElGenubi · Post by **ZubenElGenubi** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:33 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»We all know that a cold air intake doesn't do squat for your mileage... Just read stuff around here, people saying stuff similar to "My mileage dropped since the CAI 'cause it sounds so good when you run the crap out of the car so now I'm always getting on it.." lmaoNo, REALLY!!!! I'm getting better gas mileage with the CAI! Of course, I got my worst MPG ever on the tank I got right after I installed it! VROOM! +1 on the ScanGauge2. Great tool-toy (take your pick).

NewNeptune · Post by **NewNeptune** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:55 am

How bad was it? Lowest I've hit was 24.8 MPG.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:27 am

If you've got numbers like that for an all-time low, you're sitting pretty. My Vibe wasn't even able to hit the 20 MPG mark for a while when I had it. Even when everything was "fixed" it still didn't do great.

ZubenElGenubi · Post by **ZubenElGenubi** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:18 am

Quote, originally posted by NewNeptune Â»How bad was it? Lowest I've hit was 24.8 MPG.23.4 MPG.

Gas Mileage, what's the trick?

Gas Mileage, what's the trick?

Re: Gas Mileage, what's the trick? (NewNeptune)

Re: Gas Mileage, what's the trick? (NewNeptune)

Re: Gas Mileage, what's the trick? (Mavrik)

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